I just open this tread with ahope that Val reads it and picks up a few tips of what we can do to stop the slide to the bottom.
Let me explain that the reason for such tread to be opened is that what I saw against Antrim yesterday would may you cry not in anger but in shame thatCavan football has reached such a low that we depend on another result to keep us up.
It is ok for Val and company to say we are looking forward to the Championship, but we here in Cavan have to look where we are now.
To get the ball rolling excuse the pun I make the following list of suggestions not in order of priority.

No 1 Divisional / Regional teams be set up ------- In order that our best footballers play at a high level against one another and that a high standand
of football is evident in each Division/region.

No 2 Development squads to be reorganised------- That the current syatem of underage football be looked at where greather emphasis be placed on
modern day coaching .
No 3 That the Senior Championship quarter ------- These are the people that are in touch day in day out with what is happening.
finalist managers from the previous year
be selectors for the following year.

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 4070 - 10/04/2012 10:41:34    1147587

A complete clear out is needed and a fresh start is required.

Each club should nominate 3 best players to attend training games/practice sessions etc. These sessions should be held in 3/4 areas in Cavan with the most committed and most skilful players being put froward to the final stages. Only the hard working, reliable, committed and genuine players from the final stages should make the panel.

It sounds like Cavan's got footballing talent,however, why not give every player the chance to show what they can do - no matter what club there from.

It will take time and effort, but we as fans and supporters of the Breffni Blues deserve better

cavangenius (Cavan) - Posts: 33 - 10/04/2012 13:37:12    1147868

A complete clear out is needed and a fresh start is required.

The semi clear out hasn't worked?

Wait for the U21s to mature. They seem to be going the right way.

loonogs (Cavan) - Posts: 25 - 10/04/2012 13:59:50    1147924

I would not like to see this post being an Anti Val post.
Far from it I would prefer to see it as supportive of what we feel would be good for Cavan football.
Would a complete clearout solve anything ??? I dont know if that is the answer

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 4070 - 10/04/2012 14:15:05    1147959

If you mean me, no its not an anti Val post. At the moment Div 3 standard is about where we really are. With the promotion of the U21 players from the last few years we will hopefully achieve a team that is used to winning.

loonogs (Cavan) - Posts: 25 - 10/04/2012 15:13:23    1148048

Never mind Val at all what we need is a complete clear out of the people who put him there !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 10/04/2012 16:00:31    1148110

If the current players are good enough, then they will be reappointment to the squad of completion on the trials

The u21's going through are great but will take time - blood new senior players and mix the under generation in as they mature. Plenty of talent in smaller club not getting a chance

cavangenius (Cavan) - Posts: 33 - 10/04/2012 16:06:47    1148124

There is no doubt that we have talent coming through from underage but it is wrong to presume that we have to wait for this talent to mature in order to be successful. As well as our under 21s and minors there is a wealth of players in the 22-30 age group around the county who have plenty to contribute but they have been consistently mismanaged. There is also a dangerous message going out in Cavan county football that players can be discarded at age 24-25 as of no use. a player can be a brilliant minor , go off the boil at u21 and reemerge at 25-26 as a mature reliable player, or indeed be a brilliant u21 and burnt out at 23,but properly managed still have a lot to contribute. I contend as well that another problem we have is a large number of people who have been hanging around the county scene as selectors/coordinators/helper-outers for years, many of them with no coaching/management qualifications or experience, these people who are advising on selection to county panels and to county teams who pretty much are no more than very interested fans, they are actually a nuisance and need to be moved on.

cavanabu10 (Cavan) - Posts: 57 - 10/04/2012 18:27:44    1148284

I think we are all agreed on one thing and that is that the players ARE in the county. The problem is That they are either not involved in the county set-up for one reason or another and that the players who are involved are not being managed/selected/utilised to to best of their ability. Listening to Val.. (and I would be someone who hithertofore would be totally against chopping and changing managers after one or two years) He doesn't exude confidence and doesn't instil confidence in me that he knows what the solution to our current problems are. He seems almost resigned to his fate at the moment. It would appear that the people that he surrounds himself with are no help to him. I feel sorry for him. But I think the longer he AND his team stays, the more damage is being done to the young players who entered the squad with much enthusiasm and spirit. I feel the spirit is gradually being knocked out of them. I am loath to say it but we do need a whole new management set-up.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5522 - 10/04/2012 19:05:26    1148316

if any1 was lucky enough to see crossmaglen trainin in breffni 2 weeks ago then yoy woulda seen what trainings should be like!! great pace not a cone needed and no hand passsing drills!! all kicking and running in real game situations!! was great watching!

humptydumpty1 (Cavan) - Posts: 92 - 10/04/2012 19:30:31    1148336

I would agree that a root and branch analysis should be done of football in the county. For far too long we sat back thinking winning Ulster Titles was our divine right like the "good old days" Well lads those days are long gone. We have been passed out by an awful lot of counties. They have stolen our clothes. Blaming Val Andrews and all of our recent managers is total baloney. The problem is deep rooted. Why dont we go up to a county like Tyrone and study how they do things, at club, colleges, underage dev squads etc.
For years we achieved nothing at underage but these last few years we have done wonders at minor and particularly u21. So your right we have an awful lot of good footballers but it is not easy to transfer that to Senior, look at Laois and Westmeath.
What Terry Hyland has been doing over the last few years has been amazing. Reading some of the forum experts , one would think we had been winning Ulster titles for the last 40 years. Lads wake up. We have won one senior title in over 40 years and that was probably due to the spirit of Martin Mc Hugh.
I would love to see these young lads mixed with a few dedicated older heads progress over the next few years.
It will happen but we have to have patience. Its not nice being beaten by every average county in Div 3 but the tide will turn. Keep the faith.

BreffniDub (None) - Posts: 377 - 10/04/2012 19:45:03    1148348

S goldrick

Who are these players that you speak of, and why did we find ourselves languishing in Div 3

ochonlir (Cavan) - Posts: 4343 - 10/04/2012 19:46:49    1148349

S Goldrick could I ask you on what you are basing the contention that we have the players? What players are hanging around the county that have ever proven themselves at county level? Or at Ulster Club level?

This notion in Cavan that we have the players but we just need the right manager is an extremely destructive one. The going gets tough and the players feel justified in turning around and blaming management completely. Which is beginning to happen in the current setup.
Supporters demand instant success, instant improvement, they wonder why should they wait when we so obviously have the talent.. Year after year we get the names of loads of lads not in the panel whom we are told are quality. Yet for some reason we constantly have management so inept that they refuse to pick these hidden gems. It seems we constantly pick management who enjoy losing games and inevitably their management positions....
What budding managers would want to come to Cavan with such high expectations founded on nothing but a notion.

And it's about to be made worse by the fact that we won 2 trophies last year. People all of a sudden feel vindicated in saying we have the talent. In reality though we had 2 solid outfits that won provincial titles only. Don't get me wrong the victories were brilliant and the lads all gave a lift to the county with their efforts but in terms of its potential effect on Senior football in Cavan people are exaggerating it completely. We reached 1 AI Final and we were completely outclassed. Tipp won an U21 Munster and went a few steps better than our Minors last year winning the All Ireland and they have just been relegated at Senior Level.

Val Andrews may not be a top quality manager, but in terms of his motivation for being in the job, his willingness to make tough decisions that he feels are necessary and his desire to build a foundation for Cavan football to build on in the face of unwarranted and sometimes very personal abuse on forums such as these, and indeed in person down in Brewster last week if reports are to be believed, he has done the county and himself proud.

Inactive x5 (Cavan) - Posts: 1452 - 10/04/2012 19:56:12    1148357

Breffne Dub, is this " amazing t hyland" you speak of the same one who is currently val"s right hand man and a selector of senior team?

cavanabu10 (Cavan) - Posts: 57 - 10/04/2012 20:17:26    1148390

JonSmith

Very good post!

ochonlir (Cavan) - Posts: 4343 - 10/04/2012 20:25:03    1148402

cavanabu10.
Breffne Dub, is this " amazing t hyland" you speak of the same one who is currently val"s right hand man and a selector of senior team?

Indeed Terry just managed Cavan to 3 sucessive Ulster finals (incl 1 All Irl final) but as the old hurler on the ditch says "I could do better than that". Dream on brother!!!
I like thousands of other Cavan supporters are very proud of what Terry has achieved. Give the man a bit of credit!!!!

BreffniDub (None) - Posts: 377 - 10/04/2012 20:33:07    1148417

It's interesting to compare our current situation with neighbours Meath. They survived last year in Div 2 on 3 pts and got relegated this year on 4 pts. They are also asking serious questions about their manager. I believe we are in a better situation because we have begun the root and branch exercise that they now face, and I think that, in general, we have a better county board. We have managed to nurture our young talent and turn them into winners, but it is still a work in progress. They are our future, not the present seniors. However, we need to have the right person on board to ensure that the majority of them progress to successful senior careers. If Val is not the man for this, then the decision as to who replaces him becomes critical, and requires proper consideration and planning. I would prefer to leave Val in place for this campaign rather than parachute the wrong person in just for the sake of a change. We don't have enough time for a major clearout to have the desired effect to improve our chances against Donegal. What leading manager would be attracted to us under those circumstances? Let's not turn a bad situation into a farce.

ondforty (Cavan) - Posts: 467 - 11/04/2012 11:04:55    1148648

you talk about a farce? since the appointment of donal keoghan we have been classed as a farce!!
honestly, if you talk to people in other counties about cavan the normally say the same nice things..., great support, history etc, but they always end by asking whats gone wrong of late.
now pie in the sky answers about watching crossmaglen train:) and a big clear out are laughable, as i do believe the panel does contain the best ballers in the county at the minute bar a few exceptions.
val will be in the job untilcavan lose to donegal and exit in the 1st or 2nd back door sheepishly... like every other year and we will all be angry posting on HS, he will be sacked, we will all be optomistic about a new manager and this time next year we will all be giving out again

milhouse (Cavan) - Posts: 469 - 11/04/2012 11:20:55    1148672

There would be no sense in changing the manager this year .. My choice on what's available at the present moment would to go for someone like Joe kiernan with some of the present young u21 selectors as kiernans selectors for a 2 year period. In that time selectors like forde , ronan carolan ect could learn their trade from a manager like Joe. Then they would be capable of branching out in management on their own. Kiernans track record in ulster is good. And he has respect throughout ulster and more importantly a good track record in management , something our last 3 managers did not have.

richiej (UK) - Posts: 1430 - 11/04/2012 11:27:02    1148678

ochonlir
County: Cavan
Posts: 3892

1148349
S goldrick

Who are these players that you speak of, and why did we find ourselves languishing in Div 3

The players I speak of are all players... including the current panel... I am not saying we have the players at the moment to challenge the likes of Dublin,Cork,kerry,Kildare,Tyrone. but we certainly have the players in the county to not be struggling against the likes of Antrim,Offally,Longford,wexford,Roscommon etc. Ochonlir.are you saying we DON'T have the players in the county at present to compete with these counties ?
If so then that is strange given that we have been competitive at minor and under-21 for quite a few years (even before we won last years ulster minor title we were always competitive in Ulster, only ever being beaten by the odd point or two. So give me any talk about not having the players. isuppose people would have said the same before '97... oh we don't have the players. Well Mchugh proved we did have the players. and we certainly have the players now. when you consider that some of the top clubs in the county are not represented on the current panel..

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5522 - 11/04/2012 11:45:13    1148700