slasher

Wheat from the Chaff?


you really have players interests at heart clearly when you refer to them in such terms!

ochonlir (Cavan) - Posts: 4343 - 07/08/2010 19:51:26    739570

Shamrock 10,
I would love to engage with you in this lively discussion about the benefits, and history of amalgamations, but I am away on holidays at the moment(surfing in an internet cafe!). You obviously take seriously your contributions to this Forum, for that ,and your interesting lectures, we thank you!. Right now, there's a cocktail or two with my name on it, so adios!! By the way, good luck to ALL the Minor teams in the championship! Will someone PLEASE post the results of this weekends games, all of them .

cailin deas (Cavan) - Posts: 68 - 07/08/2010 19:53:50    739575

ochonlir,

Is that the only comment you have regarding my post ? Wheat = cream, chaff = whey i.e. good and not very good that is the object of picking Regional teams to get the best players !! I think so. What do you think of my idea of 8 regional teams? Would it improve standards ?

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 07/08/2010 20:44:28    739639

not sure if your 8 reigon games would be any good, there is already development squads which get our more talented players together

Players develop af different rates some players who play at county minor level don't make on to their senior team and some players who berely get on their own minor club teams can go on to be valuable club players. If we had your wheat and Chaff outlook the latter would be developing their skills in another sport ar would give up altogether.

another question is do we focus on the early blossoming players too much, should we spend more time with the poorer players to improve them, which is a more difficult proposition for example if we had taken more time to train big awkward lads and bring them through would we have such a small County senior forward line

ochonlir (Cavan) - Posts: 4343 - 07/08/2010 21:38:05    739693

The development squads were only used in challenge match experiments, i want a serious competition with cup and medals and something worth winning !! Why would we lose the players not chosen to other sports ? Surely their clubs would have games for them and they would try to improve to make the Regional team.

I agree that we should also make a special effort to find big players and give them good coaches to enable them perform at their best and have often said that many Cavan players are too small.

I would be in favour of anything which might improve the standard of our county teams !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 07/08/2010 21:51:29    739711

It's easier to coach naturally talented players, working on the others is more difficult and by having another layer of representative squads like you suggest would in all likleyhood push those players further out.

We focus on the best too much

for example we often hear of player burnout and what can be done to help but we don't dwell on the exact opposite.....think about it!

ochonlir (Cavan) - Posts: 4343 - 07/08/2010 21:58:41    739728

The players interest at heart !! We want the best players to represent Cavan at all levels so they must be given all the best coaches, training facilities, physios etc etc. Nobody is pushed out, they should all be treated equally - this seems to be the reason why some leave as they believe they are not. having said that not everyone is good enough to make the cut and Regional Squads are a way of picking and using the best. Nobody is pushed out and as i said they can go back and play with their clubs if not selected and try harder to get on it. The same happens now if they are not good enough to get on their club teams -- work harder !!
Player burnout - i don't know what you mean by the opposite to this unless it is players not getting enough games or not trying or training hard enough. This is basically down to the players themselves. If they are not getting enough games it might be their own fault if they are too lazy to train.

There is no point in trying to make excuses because Cavan football is falling behind. Our minors have been fairly good over the last number of years being beaten by the Ulster or All Ireland champs but still winning nothing. We must try and take it to a higher level and win Ulster at least. We are not too far off but i feel that if they had more competitive games under their belts it would improve them and thats why i feel we need a proper competition to strengthen up the squad.

You still did not give me your own remedy except to try and pick holes in mine which i will admit might need working on, but at least i am trying !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 08/08/2010 10:30:57    739763

Cavan_Slasher
There is no point in trying to make excuses because Cavan football is falling behind. Our minors have been fairly good over the last number of years being beaten by the Ulster or All Ireland champs but still winning nothing. We must try and take it to a higher level and win Ulster at least. We are not too far off but i feel that if they had more competitive games under their belts it would improve them and thats why i feel we need a proper competition to strengthen up the squad.
------

Our minors have the best preperation possible for championship matches, sure don't we have the Ulster League what more do they want, by the way along with that they do have plenty of challenge matches so no excuse for not being match fit.
The only issue I have with our minor set up is that the gap around the leaving cert causes a big problem with training maybe this is where our problems are,being that we are in Ulster different rule for the six counties as apposed to the 26.
I have been watching minor matches for a very long time now and I have to say the majority of these matches were lost on the side line, I am sure many will agree with this. Sean

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4602 - 08/08/2010 11:03:29    739774

Seanoroinn,

Nothing to do with minor league etc Sean. What i am on about is the selection process to get a minor panel in the first place i.e. a 8 team Regional Comp. !! This would increase the standard i feel and could be ran in conjunction with league.

I also attend minor games when i can but not as many as you obviously as i work shifts. I do agree that many of our minor county losses were due to inaction or bad reading from the sideline !! A good man on the sideline is very important so that changes or switches can be made on time. We could have beaten Armagh if this had happened i feel !! (Then look at the hiding Tyrone gave them) !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 08/08/2010 11:35:13    739793

I also attend minor games when i can but not as many as you obviously as i work shifts. I do agree that many of our minor county losses were due to inaction or bad reading from the sideline !! A good man on the sideline is very important so that changes or switches can be made on time. We could have beaten Armagh if this had happened i feel !! (Then look at the hiding Tyrone gave them) !!
Cavan_Slasher , 08/08/2010 at 11:35

Irrelevant? what beating Tyrone gave Armagh as we can but speak for matches that we were involved in as each are different? Yes I agree we should have beaten Armagh of that I have no doubt even with all the changes Armagh had in the first half I still felt we had the beating of them but its now history, same last year same the year before and so on.
I will put it across here right now unless we get people in charge of these teams who don't go beyond the individuals in person by this I mean the club they play for the parents they come from the background to their existence we will go no place, it should not matter what club or where you come from but your ability to play to the standard that is required for minor U21 junior and senior championships football and hurling, until this happens we as a county will go no place. If you intend to set up competitions which I agree with 100% you must have people selecting what we have by ability and not by what I stated above.
One point I will put across here, have you sat in the stand or stood on the terraces and listened to so called very knowledgeable former players and present coaches and people in club and county positions give a view of what they are watching, have you ever said to yourself what fecking match are they watching well if yes is your answer you can see why we have problems playing or selecting our quality players, WE MUST REMOVE THE BLINKERS IF WE INTEND TO BE HONEST TO THE FUTURE PLAYERS OF THIS COUNTY. Sean

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4602 - 08/08/2010 12:29:23    739823

Cavan_Slasher
Nothing to do with minor league etc Sean. What i am on about is the selection process to get a minor panel in the first place i.e. a 8 team Regional Comp. !! This would increase the standard i feel and could be ran in conjunction with league.

If a venue was an issue for your plans we now have the state of the arts 3G full size pitch I am sure this could be made available if it was to happen. I am not in favour of regions in general but if Lurgan was anything to go by? well for the minor plan I feel yes worth a try. Sean

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4602 - 08/08/2010 12:43:26    739840

Look lads this topic is minor nd u16 championship were gone off hte subject completly i understand what ye are saying just take it to a different forum

Fame_Doyle (Cavan) - Posts: 31 - 08/08/2010 12:59:50    739860

slasher

I'm not trying to pick holes in yours you are doing that yourself

my argument is about developing players that don't have obvious potential yours is to continue with giving everything to the early bloomers. we already do the best for our best players at the underage grades and give them best facilities coaches etc. The players who because of where thay are in their own physical development and don't appear to have a talent for football are a more difficult proposition. Your complete lack of understandin and respect for players is evident by your earlier wheat and chaff comments and now by your complete disrespectful "lazy" description. The argument that "at least I am trying" is patetic your views about players are miopic and outdated and your judgement is flawed.


We must try different things and people like Nicolas walsh is doing great work, local coaches are doing great work but silver bullet nonsense like you are"at least trying" to suggest is to glib too easy it's hard work getting coaching badges doing the hard work with both the talented and not so talented(not lazy as you describe them) is the way forward. Giving out a cup for a meaningless 8 team tournament might get your juices flowing but won't replace the hard graft needed to train our young players.

ochonlir (Cavan) - Posts: 4343 - 08/08/2010 13:32:40    739880

Ochonlir,

How are they doing great work if we are still winning nothing and losing ground. Where were the great Cavan coaches on the sideline when changes needed to be made against Armagh Some people may be trying but there is work to be done, a lot of it, and if we continue the same old ways we are just running on the spot. Now picking holes in what i say and not putting anything forward of your own is a futile way of posting. Can the coaches already in situ not bring on the bad players ? My idea of a regional Tournament is to make it very important and worthwhile winning not some mickey mouse trial thing. Trying to insult my post says more about you than me !! Give your solutions !!


Seanoroinn,

That is exactly what i have been saying. So called knowledgeable people letting things continue as they are and not recognising what they are seeing. Time for them to remove the blinkers. My point about Armagh beating us and then getting hammered was to show how far we actually are falling behind Tyrone who have a great undeage set-up we should be modelling !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 08/08/2010 14:27:16    739918

cavan slasher

you are possibly the most arrogant poster I've seen on HS

you totally ignore my argument and expect people to agree with you or you think they are picking holes in your argument

your argument is to insult players, coaches and put a rinkydink 8 team tournament as a panacea

and in your arrogance you are disagreeing with me for the sake of it

you know the old saying when you point your fingerthere are three pointing back at you

getting stuck in at club level working with all our players supporting our coaches and players and empowering them is the way forward not a dummy dogeball tournameent!

ochonlir (Cavan) - Posts: 4343 - 08/08/2010 16:24:28    739980

You are an arrogant young lad without a clue but knocking not just my posts but everybody else's as well. Yet you have nothing constructive to put forward at all of your own except to assist players who are not up to standard which must include yourself your so much into it !!

I think the best way forward is to ignore each others posts starting from now !! I have tried to treat you as an equal with other posters but i was wasting my time !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 08/08/2010 17:47:09    740058

gaels beat ramor in the replay 2-16 to 3-09

shapes42 (Cavan) - Posts: 383 - 08/08/2010 19:39:33    740194

tanks for calling me a young lad perhaps I could play in one of your mini games

developing talent isn't important to you evidently

ochonlir (Cavan) - Posts: 4343 - 08/08/2010 20:26:00    740247

i see the gaels beat ramor in the replay. i wonder if this was any other team in the county other then cavan gaels would they have been sucessfull in getting a replay? it seems the county board will do anything for them regardless if its at senior or underage. its no wonder the club scene is the way it is in cavan and the county board have to start taking authority

cavanforever (Cavan) - Posts: 190 - 09/08/2010 13:34:57    740750

i see the gaels beat ramor in the replay. i wonder if this was any other team in the county other then cavan gaels would they have been sucessfull in getting a replay? it seems the county board will do anything for them regardless if its at senior or underage. its no wonder the club scene is the way it is in cavan and the county board have to start taking authority
cavanforever , 09/08/2010 at 13:34

I did not see the refs report but if by chance the ref put no score in his report there has to be a replay is this not the case. I spoke to several who were at this game and every one of them said it was a draw so if it was in fact a draw extra time or a replay is natural this would apply no matter what club were involved, why do most point a finger in one direction all the time.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4602 - 09/08/2010 14:56:05    740886