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Replying To Commodore:  "I think we have equal opportunities for education in Ireland, growing up relatively poor in Ireland in the 1980s, I was very fortunate to be able to pursue 3rd level education after my leaving certificate without fees and receiving a monthly grant.

I wouldn't have been able to afford to move further away, even with my part-time job and the grant, and my parents couldn't afford to pay that type of money, and I wouldn't have wanted to put that type of added burden on them. So I stayed local and worked weekends to support myself fully.

The opportunities are definitely there, its not necessarily easy, especially if holding down part-time jobs etc, but we are better off in this regard than many other parts of the world."
Good post.

We're one of the most equal societies on the planet.

People will use any excuse to claim we're not, whereas your own story (and 1000s of others) prove otherwise.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5308 - 08/04/2026 14:36:00    2665268

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Replying To Freethinker:  "That is down to Donogh O'Malley. He introduced second level education for all. Prior to that, second level ed was for the well off. I was born a bit early for it, but my younger siblings benefitted. Anecdotaly, when he floated the idea originally he got no support from the civil service - it was a non runner, too expensive etc. He said, ok, then called a press conference and announced it anyway. Another who passed away too early."
Telling reference to the Civil Service. Professional Irish middle class with private school background has been a huge barrier to progress in genuine equality of opportunity here for 100 years. They produce very few innovators and actively impeded industrial and social development for decades.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4156 - 08/04/2026 15:57:00    2665289

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Telling reference to the Civil Service. Professional Irish middle class with private school background has been a huge barrier to progress in genuine equality of opportunity here for 100 years. They produce very few innovators and actively impeded industrial and social development for decades."
I know plenty of people who've come from "disadvantaged" backgrounds and have gone to become very successful because of the opportunities available to them. Opportunities that were available to everyone. What they did have was a work ethic. What they didn't fall back on was a myriad of excuses.

ThePowerhouse (Leitrim) - Posts: 290 - 08/04/2026 16:38:17    2665301

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Replying To ThePowerhouse:  "I know plenty of people who've come from "disadvantaged" backgrounds and have gone to become very successful because of the opportunities available to them. Opportunities that were available to everyone. What they did have was a work ethic. What they didn't fall back on was a myriad of excuses."
Thats not the point. If you come from a more privileged background it all becomes easier. Equality of opportunity means exactly that, it doesn't mean that you have to be luckier, work harder, or sacrifice more just to get the same success as someone from a more privileged background.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19121 - 08/04/2026 17:02:14    2665304

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Replying To ThePowerhouse:  "I know plenty of people who've come from "disadvantaged" backgrounds and have gone to become very successful because of the opportunities available to them. Opportunities that were available to everyone. What they did have was a work ethic. What they didn't fall back on was a myriad of excuses."
Ah the old bootstrap mantra. The tiny minority of people from disadvantaged backgrounds who become a great success do so in spite of the system not because of it.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4398 - 08/04/2026 17:52:13    2665311

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Replying To ThePowerhouse:  "I know plenty of people who've come from "disadvantaged" backgrounds and have gone to become very successful because of the opportunities available to them. Opportunities that were available to everyone. What they did have was a work ethic. What they didn't fall back on was a myriad of excuses."
You are quite right. I too know many such, but I think tour reply to Barneys post is a mile away from the gist of that post.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 2202 - 08/04/2026 19:59:27    2665324

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Replying To Viking66:  "Thats not the point. If you come from a more privileged background it all becomes easier. Equality of opportunity means exactly that, it doesn't mean that you have to be luckier, work harder, or sacrifice more just to get the same success as someone from a more privileged background."
Agreed. We're competing in a race where some get a headstart, and the majority aren't aware the race is even happening.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4398 - 09/04/2026 07:49:32    2665350

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Replying To Freethinker:  "That is down to Donogh O'Malley. He introduced second level education for all. Prior to that, second level ed was for the well off. I was born a bit early for it, but my younger siblings benefitted. Anecdotaly, when he floated the idea originally he got no support from the civil service - it was a non runner, too expensive etc. He said, ok, then called a press conference and announced it anyway. Another who passed away too early."
I wasn't aware that he introduced that, it was a brilliant move, he obviously had the vision to understand the potential of a highly educated Country, in terms of attracting outside investment.

The Civil Service doesn't surprise me sadly, we have a bloated admin heavy public sector with inefficiencies which are maintained by the various Unions. Ireland has a shortage of front line healthcare workers, but has an abundance of HSE offices containing admin workers.

Its not just the HSE, its the same with Revenue, DSP, ETB etc, they have created bloated admin structures and titles such as "officer", which justify paying basic admin roles anywhere from €40k - €78k for a 35 hour week and once permanent, its near impossible to lose your job. I was shocked recently when i got some insight the pay grades in some of these roles, its a huge drain on public finances, yet it never gets mentioned.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1707 - 09/04/2026 08:19:02    2665353

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "Ah the old bootstrap mantra. The tiny minority of people from disadvantaged backgrounds who become a great success do so in spite of the system not because of it."
What 'system' is in place to prevent those people becoming successful?

Free primary education
Free secondary education
HEAR scheme (which allows them entry into a 3rd level course with LESS points than others)
Grants for 3rd level study (SUSI Grant, student assistance fund, 1916 Bursary, free fees initiative, etc.)

What exactly is it about the system, and not the individual, that holds them back?

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5308 - 09/04/2026 08:19:25    2665354

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "Ah the old bootstrap mantra. The tiny minority of people from disadvantaged backgrounds who become a great success do so in spite of the system not because of it."
I disagree with that statement, the opportunities are there, whether or not people avail of them is there own responsibility.

I would consider myself proof that the system works, I wasn't spoon fed, I had to pursue my own interests and work part-time. But ultimately the opportunities are there.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1707 - 09/04/2026 09:30:35    2665365

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Replying To cavanman47:  "What 'system' is in place to prevent those people becoming successful?

Free primary education
Free secondary education
HEAR scheme (which allows them entry into a 3rd level course with LESS points than others)
Grants for 3rd level study (SUSI Grant, student assistance fund, 1916 Bursary, free fees initiative, etc.)

What exactly is it about the system, and not the individual, that holds them back?"
All those schemes arent available to everyone who qualifies on financial grounds. And lads from poorer families often have to go out to work at 16 or 18 anyway.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19121 - 09/04/2026 09:33:30    2665367

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Replying To ThePowerhouse:  "I know plenty of people who've come from "disadvantaged" backgrounds and have gone to become very successful because of the opportunities available to them. Opportunities that were available to everyone. What they did have was a work ethic. What they didn't fall back on was a myriad of excuses."
You missed the point. Of course there are lots of people from other than 'privileged' backgrounds who have done well.

Despite the stifling attitude of much of the professional and financial elite which did not support the sort of indigenous enterprise that Lemass and others tried to stimulate. It was that attitude that led Lemass to turn to foreign investment.

Landlords, barristers, accountants, chartered surveyors and civil service mandarins do not create enterprise and employment. They thrive off getting a cut from those who do.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4156 - 09/04/2026 09:58:30    2665373

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Replying To Freethinker:  "You are quite right. I too know many such, but I think tour reply to Barneys post is a mile away from the gist of that post."
It's not. Its the nonsense that's continuously spouted. People that have every opportunity available to them are quick to come up with the same old excuses as to why they can't or won't. Generations after generations of them.

ThePowerhouse (Leitrim) - Posts: 290 - 09/04/2026 10:01:22    2665374

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Replying To cavanman47:  "What 'system' is in place to prevent those people becoming successful?

Free primary education
Free secondary education
HEAR scheme (which allows them entry into a 3rd level course with LESS points than others)
Grants for 3rd level study (SUSI Grant, student assistance fund, 1916 Bursary, free fees initiative, etc.)

What exactly is it about the system, and not the individual, that holds them back?"
Springboard courses too offer some discounted third level courses.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8505 - 09/04/2026 10:20:11    2665380

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