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Replying To Seanfan:  "But it turned them Countries into squabbling civil wars, no central Government etc etc.
Which is what the rogue State of Israel wanted."
The State of Israel wants still to be in existence when the sun comes up tomorrow. And tomorrow that will still be their aim. Thats their psyche. Thats what makes them what they are, for better and for worse.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18685 - 05/03/2026 16:16:23    2660155

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As a matter of interest, 2 of the six US soldiers killed were probably Irish Americans. A Major Jeff O Brien approx 40yrs, from the state of Iowa, and also Specialist Declan Coady aged 21 I think, also from Iowa national guard. RIP-Brave men, we Irish have given so much to the US military. Apparently there are more Irish American winners of the "medal of honor" than any other ethnic group.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2734 - 05/03/2026 17:57:27    2660188

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Replying To Viking66:  "The State of Israel wants still to be in existence when the sun comes up tomorrow. And tomorrow that will still be their aim. Thats their psyche. Thats what makes them what they are, for better and for worse."
The same 'state' ensured that thousands of innocent children in Gaza would not see the sun come up.

peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 1488 - 06/03/2026 09:21:54    2660236

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My main emotion over the whole thing is one of despair.
Our generation have absolutely no excuse, because we are so better educated in terms of history than any who have gone before us. World War 2 should have been the nadir when it comes to mass murder and destruction. But no, here we are again allowing essentially havingg dictators lead us down the same path.

The UN, the US Congress and the EU have been pathetically impotent.
At least our Spanish friends have shown some cojones.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 10259 - 06/03/2026 10:15:41    2660252

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Replying To Viking66:  "There's a few thousand Persian exiles celebrating in the streets. There's 90 million Iranians in Iran most of whom believe in the regime they have."
That last sentence doesn't sound right. All the data shows the opposite. A fairly recent survey conducted of over 200,000 Iranians (by GAMAAN researchers) showed support for the regime by Iranians in Iran was only 15%. 99% of Iranians overseas (4 million) do not support the regime. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I cannot see anything anywhere that shows anything different.

There are obviously aspirations from Iranians for freedom from an oppressive regime. Januarys protests being another example of this. 89% of Iranians support democracy. But what does a change from the regime look like? I suppose the lack of a clearly defined strategy or end goal from what's currently going on is concerning. And if there is a power vacuum, there will inevitably be internal conflicts, and how long will those conflicts last?

Almost half of Iran is made up of non-Persians (Kurds, Azeris, etc). You would imagine the Kurds will make a strong move for some form of autonomy now. We're already seeing Trump throwing his support behind a Kurdish rebellion.

HandballRef (Donegal) - Posts: 543 - 06/03/2026 12:20:24    2660282

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I think Americans are slowly waking up to the small cabal of Aipac members who control their government. Did Sergeant Coady die for Iowa, or Trump?

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2734 - 06/03/2026 12:41:45    2660291

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Replying To peiledoir20:  "The same 'state' ensured that thousands of innocent children in Gaza would not see the sun come up."
Yes. And if the shoe was on the other foot both the Israelis and Palestinians know it would have been the same result for the other set of children.
Wars are always bad for children, despite all the Conventions etc these days.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18685 - 06/03/2026 13:02:20    2660297

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Replying To Viking66:  "Yes. And if the shoe was on the other foot both the Israelis and Palestinians know it would have been the same result for the other set of children.
Wars are always bad for children, despite all the Conventions etc these days."
How do you know it would be the same way when Israel have never given the Palestinians anything that even resembles a future? Let alone equality or even basic human rights. If Israel really wanted peace, thats what they would at least try to put into pracitice, but to this day, its been nothing but oppression and terror.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2613 - 06/03/2026 13:56:53    2660307

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Replying To HandballRef:  "That last sentence doesn't sound right. All the data shows the opposite. A fairly recent survey conducted of over 200,000 Iranians (by GAMAAN researchers) showed support for the regime by Iranians in Iran was only 15%. 99% of Iranians overseas (4 million) do not support the regime. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I cannot see anything anywhere that shows anything different.

There are obviously aspirations from Iranians for freedom from an oppressive regime. Januarys protests being another example of this. 89% of Iranians support democracy. But what does a change from the regime look like? I suppose the lack of a clearly defined strategy or end goal from what's currently going on is concerning. And if there is a power vacuum, there will inevitably be internal conflicts, and how long will those conflicts last?

Almost half of Iran is made up of non-Persians (Kurds, Azeris, etc). You would imagine the Kurds will make a strong move for some form of autonomy now. We're already seeing Trump throwing his support behind a Kurdish rebellion."
Probably stretched it a bit there, but do you think the war will be short then?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18685 - 06/03/2026 13:56:58    2660308

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Replying To Viking66:  "Yes. And if the shoe was on the other foot both the Israelis and Palestinians know it would have been the same result for the other set of children.
Wars are always bad for children, despite all the Conventions etc these days."
What war? It was a genocide.

peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 1488 - 06/03/2026 15:00:10    2660319

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "How do you know it would be the same way when Israel have never given the Palestinians anything that even resembles a future? Let alone equality or even basic human rights. If Israel really wanted peace, thats what they would at least try to put into pracitice, but to this day, its been nothing but oppression and terror."
There are approximately 2 million non Jewish Palestinians, as opposed to Jewish Palestinians of which I dont know how many there are in Israel, who are Israeli citizens and live in Israel. Muslims, Christians and Druze. They make up approximately 20% of the population. Apparently they have equal rights to jobs, education, health, the vote etc.
Im not saying by that that Israel is some sort of Utopian society BTW, and if I lived there I certainly wouldn't be voting for their current government.
On the other hand the people of Gaza voted in Hamas, over Fatah (the old PLO). Hamas then eliminated most of the Fatah party in Gaza, and have never held an election there again since.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18685 - 06/03/2026 15:28:19    2660326

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "How do you know it would be the same way when Israel have never given the Palestinians anything that even resembles a future? Let alone equality or even basic human rights. If Israel really wanted peace, thats what they would at least try to put into pracitice, but to this day, its been nothing but oppression and terror."
As regards how do I know if it would be the same way, various Arab politicians have stated they wont rest until Israel is no more. Including Hamas, who started the current wave of violence. If you think that thats not their position thats entirely up to yourself.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18685 - 06/03/2026 15:31:45    2660328

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Replying To Viking66:  "Probably stretched it a bit there, but do you think the war will be short then?"
I don't think it will be short. I see it dragging on much longer than the Americans are telling us anyway. Granted, it is different to Iraq and Afghanistan in that they were both large scale ground invasions where occupying those countries was a primary goal and long term insurgency was probably inevitable. It's hard to see troops being deployed directly on the ground (wishful thinking?), they are more likely to arm and support other groups like the Kurds instead in that regard.

I suppose a question to ask is - is a weakened and contained regime an acceptable outcome for them or will we see the war continuing until there is a complete removal of the regime and its proxys?

HandballRef (Donegal) - Posts: 543 - 06/03/2026 18:28:14    2660353

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Replying To HandballRef:  "I don't think it will be short. I see it dragging on much longer than the Americans are telling us anyway. Granted, it is different to Iraq and Afghanistan in that they were both large scale ground invasions where occupying those countries was a primary goal and long term insurgency was probably inevitable. It's hard to see troops being deployed directly on the ground (wishful thinking?), they are more likely to arm and support other groups like the Kurds instead in that regard.

I suppose a question to ask is - is a weakened and contained regime an acceptable outcome for them or will we see the war continuing until there is a complete removal of the regime and its proxys?"
To remove the regime altogether would probably be like trying to remove the Catholic Church from here at this stage.
To put their previous invasions into context the population of Afghanistan was a little over 10 million, the population of Iraq around 17 million. Both countries were tiny population wise compared to Iran.
As regards the Kurds I think it's very unlikely they will jump in. They've been promised an independent homeland before by the West. And Trump would probably be deemed even more unreliable. Even if he wanted to give them their territory Turkey, Syria and Iraq would remind him its not his to give. Around half of what could be called Kurdistan is currently in Turkey.
I think we are in for a long war, but we might reach a stage where everything stops happening. A bit like the Korean War, which is still ongoing. The Americans will be forced to leave massive forces in the Gulf States, which will cost a load of money to keep up every year, and Trump will look stupid to his America First voters. I dont think Trump minds looking stupid at this stage though.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18685 - 06/03/2026 19:15:47    2660354

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Replying To HandballRef:  "I don't think it will be short. I see it dragging on much longer than the Americans are telling us anyway. Granted, it is different to Iraq and Afghanistan in that they were both large scale ground invasions where occupying those countries was a primary goal and long term insurgency was probably inevitable. It's hard to see troops being deployed directly on the ground (wishful thinking?), they are more likely to arm and support other groups like the Kurds instead in that regard.

I suppose a question to ask is - is a weakened and contained regime an acceptable outcome for them or will we see the war continuing until there is a complete removal of the regime and its proxys?"
The mujdahideen had a phrase, "you might have the clocks, but we have the time".

They saw off the Soviets in the 80s, then the US and the Brits in the 00s/10s.

The Iranians are of a similar ilk. Any sort of regime change attempt would have to come about either by a massive (and ultimately foolish) ground invasion. Or else by a huge internal revolt by the Iranians themselves.

Unsurprisingly the US administration have completely failed to consider Sun Tzu's advice, "tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat"

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 10259 - 06/03/2026 20:38:09    2660364

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Replying To Viking66:  "There are approximately 2 million non Jewish Palestinians, as opposed to Jewish Palestinians of which I dont know how many there are in Israel, who are Israeli citizens and live in Israel. Muslims, Christians and Druze. They make up approximately 20% of the population. Apparently they have equal rights to jobs, education, health, the vote etc.
Im not saying by that that Israel is some sort of Utopian society BTW, and if I lived there I certainly wouldn't be voting for their current government.
On the other hand the people of Gaza voted in Hamas, over Fatah (the old PLO). Hamas then eliminated most of the Fatah party in Gaza, and have never held an election there again since."
You must joking, right? Gaza is also under the control of Israel, do you need any further example of how non domecractic Israel is than that? When they cut off food, water,electricity, borders, airspace whenever they want.

The Israeli government financed Hamas via Qatar for years to increase division and instability in the region. This is all fact. You can read it multiple places. Why would a regime do that if they had any intention of peace?

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2613 - 07/03/2026 08:21:25    2660385

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Replying To Viking66:  "As regards how do I know if it would be the same way, various Arab politicians have stated they wont rest until Israel is no more. Including Hamas, who started the current wave of violence. If you think that thats not their position thats entirely up to yourself."
What country has called for the destruction of Israel?
Non recognition is not the same as calling for destruction, in addition nearly all those who do not recognise Israel call for a two state solution.
Hamas Islamic Jihad are resistance movements, who represents people who have been expelled from their homeland by Israel so what do you expect them to say? Is it not the same for NI? Although Barney would point out that SF have accepted it.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2181 - 07/03/2026 08:28:19    2660386

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Replying To Viking66:  "As regards how do I know if it would be the same way, various Arab politicians have stated they wont rest until Israel is no more. Including Hamas, who started the current wave of violence. If you think that thats not their position thats entirely up to yourself."
That is not true. Israel is a nuclear power. Most Arab states have accepted it's existence. Israel has never really accepted the Palestinians existence. And have tried to wipe them off the map.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2734 - 07/03/2026 09:58:00    2660390

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "You must joking, right? Gaza is also under the control of Israel, do you need any further example of how non domecractic Israel is than that? When they cut off food, water,electricity, borders, airspace whenever they want.

The Israeli government financed Hamas via Qatar for years to increase division and instability in the region. This is all fact. You can read it multiple places. Why would a regime do that if they had any intention of peace?"
The Egyptians closed their border with Gaza too. Of course the Israelis don't want a Palestinian State next door. Why would they after the last 80 odd years of fighting between the 2?
Im not saying they are right in not wanting it by the way, only stating a fact.
The current Israeli regime definitely dont want peace. But that might change following the next elections there.
The current regime ruling Gaza, Hamas, never wanted peace either. And still dont. Only they won't be voted out anytime soon.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18685 - 07/03/2026 11:15:50    2660395

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Replying To zinny:  "What country has called for the destruction of Israel?
Non recognition is not the same as calling for destruction, in addition nearly all those who do not recognise Israel call for a two state solution.
Hamas Islamic Jihad are resistance movements, who represents people who have been expelled from their homeland by Israel so what do you expect them to say? Is it not the same for NI? Although Barney would point out that SF have accepted it."
Neither Hamas nor Netanyahu want peace. Thats why there isnt peace there, and wont be while those 2 parties are in government of Israel and Gaza.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18685 - 07/03/2026 11:17:10    2660396

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