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As you have all noticed attendance in last few years have been well down really hit me last few years when munster championship semis been getting around 20-25000. Compared this to the 90s when practically everywhere was full houses. Been wondering through various potential reasons for this and would be interested in other opinions/other reasons
--Price -generally GAA do good on this, occasionally the price may be slightly steep e.g. €30 for covered stand for limerick tipp is bit steep leave it at €20, but generally they are good in this regard. Bear in mind at €80 the all ireland final sells out.
--Standard of play - may be an issue but I think the standard is still very high
--Tactics - blanket defences can be unattractive to watch, hurling going the same way, but then again if limerick won an all ireland with a blanket defence would anybody care
--Backdoor - first dip in attendances came when backdoor came in , clare v tipp in 2002 had around 25k at it, in 2001 in had close to 40k. Personally backdoor is not an issue for me but id say is an issue re early rounds
--Other sports- pro rugby wasnt a competitor in 90s, and in the main the sports dont clash - so not an issue for me
--Monotony - a big issue recently- in football in connacht and leinster its predictable whos going to win it -qfinals predictable as well, in hurling tis sometimes nearly a foregone conclusion kilkenny are going to win, munster football - its alway cork v kerry in the final. Big issue I would say. Wasnt like that in the nineties twas way more open and dubs andcats were the same as the rest of us.
Counties not having best players -issue in some counties but never in the big ones
--Has love of game died out -dont think so in fact i think GAA is as stong as ever
--Bandwagon element- big issue there is no longer a culture of having to be there at the game or feeling you are going to be the only one left in the country, happens in all sports
--culture - in the 90s a championship game was a day out starting in pub early and finishig late - now lots of people me included - just go to the game and come straight home
--Travel cost - is an issue -not GAAs fault of course
--Television -while there was live coverage in90s but I think people are now used to watching their team at home and are more likely now to watch it at home.
--Maybe the nineties was a one off boomtime - celtic tiger, more competitive, etc
To give some examples in remember a meath v kildare football and meath v offaly double header getting 48000 , in 1997 longford v offaly got around 18000
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 10/06/2016 09:39:07
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Replying To janesboro: "As you have all noticed attendance in last few years have been well down really hit me last few years when munster championship semis been getting around 20-25000. Compared this to the 90s when practically everywhere was full houses. Been wondering through various potential reasons for this and would be interested in other opinions/other reasons
--Price -generally GAA do good on this, occasionally the price may be slightly steep e.g. €30 for covered stand for limerick tipp is bit steep leave it at €20, but generally they are good in this regard. Bear in mind at €80 the all ireland final sells out.
--Standard of play - may be an issue but I think the standard is still very high
--Tactics - blanket defences can be unattractive to watch, hurling going the same way, but then again if limerick won an all ireland with a blanket defence would anybody care
--Backdoor - first dip in attendances came when backdoor came in , clare v tipp in 2002 had around 25k at it, in 2001 in had close to 40k. Personally backdoor is not an issue for me but id say is an issue re early rounds
--Other sports- pro rugby wasnt a competitor in 90s, and in the main the sports dont clash - so not an issue for me
--Monotony - a big issue recently- in football in connacht and leinster its predictable whos going to win it -qfinals predictable as well, in hurling tis sometimes nearly a foregone conclusion kilkenny are going to win, munster football - its alway cork v kerry in the final. Big issue I would say. Wasnt like that in the nineties twas way more open and dubs andcats were the same as the rest of us.
Counties not having best players -issue in some counties but never in the big ones
--Has love of game died out -dont think so in fact i think GAA is as stong as ever
--Bandwagon element- big issue there is no longer a culture of having to be there at the game or feeling you are going to be the only one left in the country, happens in all sports
--culture - in the 90s a championship game was a day out starting in pub early and finishig late - now lots of people me included - just go to the game and come straight home
--Travel cost - is an issue -not GAAs fault of course
--Television -while there was live coverage in90s but I think people are now used to watching their team at home and are more likely now to watch it at home.
--Maybe the nineties was a one off boomtime - celtic tiger, more competitive, etc
To give some examples in remember a meath v kildare football and meath v offaly double header getting 48000 , in 1997 longford v offaly got around 18000" Yea good post.I think you've covered all bases there.
cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 10/06/2016 09:53:29
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Yes I think the 90's period you refer to was boom time for the gaa.. However I still remember small crowds attending first round munster games in the early 90's. That changed big time in the mid to late 90's when some first round games were sell outs. Booms dont last for ever. Society today wants constant entertainment and turns its back on mediocrity very quickly. All this talk of restructuring the gaa championship may have negative long term impacts. Be carefull what you wish for.
ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 710 - 10/06/2016 10:06:14
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the attendances are still very good - but the ol dinosaur in me longs back for the day when grounds were packed - limk v tipp in front of 40k was special
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 10/06/2016 10:17:37
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Replying To janesboro: "As you have all noticed attendance in last few years have been well down really hit me last few years when munster championship semis been getting around 20-25000. Compared this to the 90s when practically everywhere was full houses. Been wondering through various potential reasons for this and would be interested in other opinions/other reasons
--Price -generally GAA do good on this, occasionally the price may be slightly steep e.g. €30 for covered stand for limerick tipp is bit steep leave it at €20, but generally they are good in this regard. Bear in mind at €80 the all ireland final sells out.
--Standard of play - may be an issue but I think the standard is still very high
--Tactics - blanket defences can be unattractive to watch, hurling going the same way, but then again if limerick won an all ireland with a blanket defence would anybody care
--Backdoor - first dip in attendances came when backdoor came in , clare v tipp in 2002 had around 25k at it, in 2001 in had close to 40k. Personally backdoor is not an issue for me but id say is an issue re early rounds
--Other sports- pro rugby wasnt a competitor in 90s, and in the main the sports dont clash - so not an issue for me
--Monotony - a big issue recently- in football in connacht and leinster its predictable whos going to win it -qfinals predictable as well, in hurling tis sometimes nearly a foregone conclusion kilkenny are going to win, munster football - its alway cork v kerry in the final. Big issue I would say. Wasnt like that in the nineties twas way more open and dubs andcats were the same as the rest of us.
Counties not having best players -issue in some counties but never in the big ones
--Has love of game died out -dont think so in fact i think GAA is as stong as ever
--Bandwagon element- big issue there is no longer a culture of having to be there at the game or feeling you are going to be the only one left in the country, happens in all sports
--culture - in the 90s a championship game was a day out starting in pub early and finishig late - now lots of people me included - just go to the game and come straight home
--Travel cost - is an issue -not GAAs fault of course
--Television -while there was live coverage in90s but I think people are now used to watching their team at home and are more likely now to watch it at home.
--Maybe the nineties was a one off boomtime - celtic tiger, more competitive, etc
To give some examples in remember a meath v kildare football and meath v offaly double header getting 48000 , in 1997 longford v offaly got around 18000" I think monotony is the big reason, how many shock results where there last year in football? Antrim beating Laois? KIldare beating Cork? Wexford beating Down? Hardly Earth shattering results.. Sligo v Roscommon and Westmeath v Meath upset the odds but where not surprising results. Predictability causes disinterest, firstly in the casual fan but eventually in the sport itself..
cuttothebone (Kildare) - Posts: 176 - 10/06/2016 11:05:20
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Yes Jansboro, I think you hit all the possible causes there. Some are more relevant than others but some of them are not relevant at all in my opinion.
I don't think standard of play is an issue at all (except in the context of the lopsided nature of standards). Price? Probably was for the last number of years but when you actually look at GAA admission prices in comparison to professional sports they are actually great value in my opinion.
The issues you mention that I would point to are Tactics, Monotony, Television, Other Sports, Culture, and to a lesser extent the Back Door.
Blanket defences are a turn off for everyone except anorak fans, of whom there are quite a few on Hoganstand!
The monotony (from the growing gap in standards from the few strong to the many weak). Sadly the championship really only becomes competitive from July and increasingly from August and it is over again by September.
Television , the backdoor and cultural changes have also contributed significantly to a fall off in attendances.
For you pro rugby may not be an issue but I would argue it has and is continuing to have a huge influence. Back in the 80's and 90's rugby was the preserve of the elites and was just a sideshow that captured the (passive) interest of the mainstream for 2 or 3 months of the year (from January to March). Now the game is all pervasive , interest is widespread, and people are flocking to games and become regular attendees at Munster/Leinster/Connacht games (I leave Ulster out of that because it doesnt have the same appeal for Ulster GAA fans because of the tribalism and Ulster rugby's historical association with the Unionist/Protestant elite.). Most of the other provinces following is coming from the GAA gene pool. Nearly every pro rugby game is marketed as a marquee fixture and since GAA has such few marquee fixtures anymore, when GAA people are going to 10 or 12 big rugby games in a year but are lucky if their county participates in 1 big GAA match a year, inevitably these rugby fans from a GAA background will make the transition over to being rugby fans first and GAA fans second. Its a gradual process but I think it is happening and is ongoing and lowers the interest in attending gaa . You can't really serve 2 masters and when money is short people have to make choices and they'll generally go for the sport they perceive as having the bigger games.That's my opinion anyway!
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 2117 - 10/06/2016 22:32:27
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tv is the big difference
nowadays every big game is on tv each weekend showing on average 3 games
back then you never had games as frequent
plus it was straight knockout another massive difference
it was a game the bandwagons all went to simply because it may be the only game for the year.
Attendances are very good in the gaa this decade
remember the championship has far more games than back then so if an average per game was done on similiar lines
id say its up nowadays.
the other massive difference is the national league it has grown immensly compared to the 90tys
it takes in more than half of the gaa attendances for the season so by solely focusing on championship your missing a lot of attedances figures.
the restructuring of the leagues has been a huge success in attracting larger gates as the calendar year feeds perfect unlike old structure.
we had the largest ever attendance for a national league final this year remember.
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 11/06/2016 09:49:32
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in 70s and 80s hurling finals often did not sell out if i remember right, nor did every football final and croke park held 61/62000 then. but agree the crowds at munster hurling games seems to have fallen a lot
Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 3046 - 11/06/2016 11:30:00
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The GAA is a fast growing sport. Every major city in the world has a GAA club now. The Matches are available online or on Sky also.
The attendances may be down a bit but the viewing audiences are way up. More people all over the World have exposure to GAA.
The 90's were a good time for the GAA- but this is the era when GAA went European wide.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2734 - 11/06/2016 11:59:28
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I've a few other possible causes.
- Rural to Urban migration in young people.
I'm born in Antrim, live in Dublin now. When I was living in Antrim I attended every championship game. I only make the games now when it suits me.
Young families largely contribute to the more casual supporters. It's a good day out to bring the children to a championship game on a summers day. Rural Ireland's young population is significantly less now than it was in the 90s. Some people will start following Dublin if their kids are playing GAA, others will just fall away from the GAA.
-Ireland being wealthier now.
Despite the recession we're still way better off than we were in the mid 90s. The average length of time spent on holiday in Ireland will have grown significantly since the mid 90s. Holidays are generally taken in the summer, clashing with the championship.
People also have more disposable income to do things other than go to GAA matches, that back in the day would've been great cheap entertainment.
-Rise of the internet and social media.
Are people just less active now. Children in particular seem less concerned about actually being out and about and are happy to be on social media now. They've less interest on things like watching live sport.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4615 - 11/06/2016 12:50:49
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think tv, the collapse in interest for the provincial championships especially munster and leinster has played a role..attendances still very strong all round
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 11/06/2016 12:56:53
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In hurling at least, the mid to late 90's was a great period. Up to 2002, I remember nearly all Tipps Munster championship games nearly always being a sellout, especially games against Clare down in Cork. Munster finals were typically sold out. I remember the Leinster final in 1997 having an attendance of around 56,000, I think that might be a record.
I think the biggest factor in these crowds, were the teams who were successful at the time. The Cork/Tipp/Kilkenny/Galway monopoly had been broken, with Limerick making the breakthrough in Minster in 1994 (and Offaly winning the AI), then Clare making that historic breakthrough in 95. Then the momentum was kept going by Wexford in 96. Then Waterford in 98.
Clare's success in the mid/late 90's had a huge effect on the popularity of hurling, but I think the success of Wexford and Limerick had a big effect as well. In hurling terms, Limerick and Wexford have tended to bring biggest crowds. The 56k in the 97 Leinster final, and the 49k in the 98 Leinster semi's, were down to Wexford. Actually, going back in time, the attendance records set in the 50's for AI finals involving Wexford still haven't been broken. Limerick also bring huge crowds, still do. I remember regular league games between Limerick and Clare getting close to 20,000 in the Gaelic Grounds in the late 90's. That's why outside of Tipp, I'd always be rooting for Wexford and Limerick, I think the profile of hurling would be boosted by the crowds and excitement their success would bring.
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 11/06/2016 18:03:36
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far more distractions now
manfromdelmonte (UK) - Posts: 541 - 11/06/2016 18:33:04
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Replying To cuttothebone: "I think monotony is the big reason, how many shock results where there last year in football? Antrim beating Laois? KIldare beating Cork? Wexford beating Down? Hardly Earth shattering results.. Sligo v Roscommon and Westmeath v Meath upset the odds but where not surprising results. Predictability causes disinterest, firstly in the casual fan but eventually in the sport itself.." Westmeath beating Meath was very surprising since it hadn't happened in a 130 odd years of football despite being in same province.
And for me personally I believe it to be the lowest point of long over 40 years following the Royal, and a day I hoped I would never witness, but I did and barring a all ire title mod will never redeem himself in my eyes.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 11/06/2016 19:00:05
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Replying To manfromdelmonte: "far more distractions now" By and large id have to agree with you, in the 90s we had at very most 6 tv channels, (come on we all remember the little triangle on channel 4, hehehe) only time I ever watched it anyways.
These days there is wall to wall soccer, rugby, you name it, in the 80s over 16 million watched Denis Taylor and Steve Davis final. We had less choice,pubs still closed between 2and 4 on Sundays. The gaa is doing ok considering, the youth today want instant gratification, buying tickets, travelling to match and watching match seems like too much hassle for them. Its just one of those things.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 11/06/2016 19:32:25
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Replying To janesboro: "As you have all noticed attendance in last few years have been well down really hit me last few years when munster championship semis been getting around 20-25000. Compared this to the 90s when practically everywhere was full houses. Been wondering through various potential reasons for this and would be interested in other opinions/other reasons
--Price -generally GAA do good on this, occasionally the price may be slightly steep e.g. €30 for covered stand for limerick tipp is bit steep leave it at €20, but generally they are good in this regard. Bear in mind at €80 the all ireland final sells out.
--Standard of play - may be an issue but I think the standard is still very high
--Tactics - blanket defences can be unattractive to watch, hurling going the same way, but then again if limerick won an all ireland with a blanket defence would anybody care
--Backdoor - first dip in attendances came when backdoor came in , clare v tipp in 2002 had around 25k at it, in 2001 in had close to 40k. Personally backdoor is not an issue for me but id say is an issue re early rounds
--Other sports- pro rugby wasnt a competitor in 90s, and in the main the sports dont clash - so not an issue for me
--Monotony - a big issue recently- in football in connacht and leinster its predictable whos going to win it -qfinals predictable as well, in hurling tis sometimes nearly a foregone conclusion kilkenny are going to win, munster football - its alway cork v kerry in the final. Big issue I would say. Wasnt like that in the nineties twas way more open and dubs andcats were the same as the rest of us.
Counties not having best players -issue in some counties but never in the big ones
--Has love of game died out -dont think so in fact i think GAA is as stong as ever
--Bandwagon element- big issue there is no longer a culture of having to be there at the game or feeling you are going to be the only one left in the country, happens in all sports
--culture - in the 90s a championship game was a day out starting in pub early and finishig late - now lots of people me included - just go to the game and come straight home
--Travel cost - is an issue -not GAAs fault of course
--Television -while there was live coverage in90s but I think people are now used to watching their team at home and are more likely now to watch it at home.
--Maybe the nineties was a one off boomtime - celtic tiger, more competitive, etc
To give some examples in remember a meath v kildare football and meath v offaly double header getting 48000 , in 1997 longford v offaly got around 18000" Wasnt like that in the nineties twas way more open and dubs andcats were the same as the rest of us.
Kilkenny appeared in 6 All-Irelands during the nineties, winning three. Although that record is not as good as the last 15 years; they certainly weren't the same as the rest. Offaly were the next best county with 4 AI appearances. winning 2.
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2866 - 12/06/2016 18:19:45
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: "Wasnt like that in the nineties twas way more open and dubs andcats were the same as the rest of us.
Kilkenny appeared in 6 All-Irelands during the nineties, winning three. Although that record is not as good as the last 15 years; they certainly weren't the same as the rest. Offaly were the next best county with 4 AI appearances. winning 2." I actually think Kilkenny appeared in 5 All-Ireland finals in the 90's, winning 2 (92+93). Offaly and Cork had the same record in the 90's, appearing in 3 finals, and winning 2, each. Clare are next with 2 AI wins.
So the 90's roll of honor (AI wise) was: Clare:2, Offaly:2, Kilkenny:2, Cork:2, Wexford:1, Tipperary:1. Not a bad spread.
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 12/06/2016 18:39:40
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Replying To Marlon_JD: " Replying To Cockney_Cat: "<b>Wasnt like that in the nineties twas way more open and dubs andcats were the same as the rest of us. </b>
Kilkenny appeared in 6 All-Irelands during the nineties, winning three. Although that record is not as good as the last 15 years; they certainly weren't the same as the rest. Offaly were the next best county with 4 AI appearances. winning 2."</div>I actually think Kilkenny appeared in 5 All-Ireland finals in the 90's, winning 2 (92+93). Offaly and Cork had the same record in the 90's, appearing in 3 finals, and winning 2, each. Clare are next with 2 AI wins.
So the 90's roll of honor (AI wise) was: Clare:2, Offaly:2, Kilkenny:2, Cork:2, Wexford:1, Tipperary:1. Not a bad spread." No, all decades start with a 1 and end with a 0. It's a common misconception
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2866 - 12/06/2016 19:02:09
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: " Replying To Marlon_JD: "[quote=Cockney_Cat: "<b>Wasnt like that in the nineties twas way more open and dubs andcats were the same as the rest of us. </b>
Kilkenny appeared in 6 All-Irelands during the nineties, winning three. Although that record is not as good as the last 15 years; they certainly weren't the same as the rest. Offaly were the next best county with 4 AI appearances. winning 2."</div>I actually think Kilkenny appeared in 5 All-Ireland finals in the 90's, winning 2 (92+93). Offaly and Cork had the same record in the 90's, appearing in 3 finals, and winning 2, each. Clare are next with 2 AI wins.
So the 90's roll of honor (AI wise) was: Clare:2, Offaly:2, Kilkenny:2, Cork:2, Wexford:1, Tipperary:1. Not a bad spread." No, all decades start with a 1 and end with a 0. It's a common misconception"]If you're counties decades from year 1AD, maybe. But historically, decades tend to be grouped 0-9. And this thread wasn't asking about the 10th decade of the 20th century, it was asking about 'the 90's', which would generally be considered 90-99 inclusive.
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 12/06/2016 19:28:15
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2 biggest reasons in my eyes are
1. TV ..in the 90s the All ireland semi finals were all you would see now every match is on some channel
2. Money, peoples spending power is low, while many are in average paid jobs , many now have Mobile Phones & sky TV bills they never had in the 90s and instead had that cash to go to thurles or Pair Ui Chaoimh for the day out.
On another note when inter county footballers are saying they are not there to provide entertainment is it any wonder attendances are down.the attendance of 2734 at Tipp V Cork has to be a huge concern.
hurler32 (Limerick) - Posts: 871 - 12/06/2016 21:43:15
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