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Replying To Tadhg2020: "Again very selective quoting to suit yourself.
Im not going down the relegation rabbit hole again. I was pointing out the contradictory nature of your posts across different threads and on different days not talking about relegation. You know that.
Didn't Galway come in to leinstrr in 2012? Thats 14 years out of 26. Thats pretty close to half. You didnt win more than 1 in the previous 12 years and they have only won 4. You have had plenty of chances. Again blaming others for your shortcomings. Its a pattern.
We agree on this though. You wouldnt win any more in a knockout format. You just hope that the shorter track will cover the cracks.
There is nothing in your history over the last 50 years or so to suggest that knockout hurling suits you..its just wishful and lazy thinking. Its common among fans to think less will amount to more. It generally doesnt." I take it Galway entered Leinster while you were running around in a Munster Rugby jersey? Galway were voted into Leinster in 2008. Ourselves, Dublin, and Offaly voted against it. Like anything to do with the All Ireland Championship, including the Mubstwr Championship, it wasnt up to our Provincial Council to decide. It was decided at Congress.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20199 - 04/07/2026 00:03:05
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Replying To tearintom: "At the end of the Tadgh mentioned it earlier.
Tge elephant in the room is the condensed nature of the split season and its completely detrimental to the development of hurling.
The thing is the same people whinging about the development of hurling will rail against the one thing thats causing it most harm." Id love there to be AI finals in September again, as a supporter, but the only way that was possible back in the day was far fewer intercounty games. Club championships took place between county games. With the current nature of intercounty, or the way it went as the noughties went into the teens, that wasnt possible any more. Thats why the CPA were formed. If you tried going back on the deal again the CPA would reform. The vast majority of players, club and county, prefer the current set up. So we, as supporters or coaches or administrators or keyboard warriors or couch potatoes, need to bear that in mind when considering any ideas for change we might all have.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20199 - 04/07/2026 11:27:25
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Replying To WanPintWin: "In fairness, Limerick didn't look for any favours when they were struggling to win games. They got their house in order from within." We have before and will again. Back in 08/09 ourselves and Limerick were condemned to division 2 in order to protect cork. The structure was changed after the tournament had finished.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4597 - 04/07/2026 11:42:19
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "I dont think that hurling is anywhere near in the trouble that some are suggesting. There is a current quality issue in some counties that have been stronger in the recent past yes but its nothing that a bit of hard work on and off the pitch wont fix within the counties themselves. KK will bounce back quickly. So will Tipp. It will take a bit longer in Wexford. Waterford probably need their stadium finished but they are close even without it. They just need to finish out games. Its easier said than done but they are in that cycle atm of turning potential wins into draws and defeats. They need to turn that around." Waterford have a good 1st 15 if they are all uninjured, but need a larger pool of top players.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20199 - 04/07/2026 12:07:48
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "Yes I know. That was in a knockout format. Its bloody hard to build anything in a knockout format. You are either at or not. Even if you are certain things can go against you like being away from home in the cauldron that Pairc Ui Caoimh is etc. We worked really hard to get away from that for close to 20 years now. We were working hard before that too but it wasn't working for us. We changed things, united and improved. We were helped by the games thar the munster round robin provides. We used that platform to build off. Viking dismisses those games as if they are not relevant. I know that there is more than a hint of jealousy in that attitude but it must be challenged. You cannot be allowed to create an alternative reality. Thats Trump tactics and I deplore them.
I have nothing against Wexford. I wish them well but there is something wrong there. Looking for shortcuts wont change that. Davey came in and showed you what was needed but it didnt stick. Only those deeply involved in wexford hurling know why. If you are referring to my Offaly comments I stand by that. They work really hard there with less resources than Wexford. They made the round robin work for them. I was at the KK game and the crowd really got behind them. The team responded in kind. It wasn't a huge crowd but they played their part from start to finish. Friends of mine who were there for the Dublin game said it was similar. Offaly used to feel sorry for themselves. I remember the conversations when they were struggling and when they went down and then down again. Then csme the campaign for the 6th leinster team and once that was achieved silence or as good as. They knew what they had to do and set about doing it im not talking about the academy only. Im talking about the seniors. They did it in tandem. It was hard work and not glamorous but they knuckles down. Duignsn played a huge part. He put good people in key roles but the players young and old past and present did the work. Hopefully it continues.
Trying to reinvent the wheel looking for short cuts helps noone. Why would any munster team want to see the munster championship diminished in the way viking wants? Why would any leinster team want it for ( leinster championship) that matter but lets focus on us. Why would we want our championship pushed into April and early may to facilitate a round robin against ( currently and for foreseeable future) weaker teams that the fans dont really want? Ive asked him numerous times. Whats in it for us? He hasn't answered because the answer is nothing. Why would most Leinster teams want it( maybe KK and Galway aside) want it? There's very little in it for them either. We saw the quarter finals." I didnt dismissed those games as not being relevant, but stated the fact that you already had a good team before the RR format even came in. you won against Tipp, drew with Cork and hammered Waterford in 2018 in your 1st 3 games in Munster, of anything your form dipped as Clare hammered you in the last game. Then you regrouped and won your 1st AI in nearly half a century. The work for this was put in from the start of the noughties after an all county review in Limerick after your defeat to Kilkenny in the Final, at club and county level. It had nothing to do with Round Robins as they only came in after you already had a good team coming.
You dont have to tell me that work has to be put in, Im spending a load of hours every week at all different levels of the game on and off the pitch to try to improve things, as are many other people down here. You seem to think it isnt happening, basing that assumption on what I dont know.
There are no shortcuts, and we arent looking for any.
The other 2 issues arent related to that. The reason I proposed an AI Round Robin in the 1st place was nothing to do with Wexford, particularly as we wouldnt do well in it anyway if we played like we did this year, or our current form at Senior, or any future improvements we might or might not make. Its to do with there being nearly no hurling games at all in around half the intercounty championship window at any level, and that being the best half of that window, the summer months.
And Im not pulling stuff from out of thin air about this, theres a wide debate going on currently in the GAA about it, particularly in hurling counties obviously, but all the way to the top too, as well as the media and supporters around the country.
As regards why would people in Munster counties want it, there are several given to me by people in all 5 Munster hurling counties, the first of which is the diminishing place for hurling within the GAA itself. Hurling was always the little brother to Football, witness the fact that less than 6 heads of coaching and games in the 32 counties come from a hurling background, the rest come from a Football one. As supporters all the lads I know in Munster think there should be more hurling games in June as well, they want more games that time of year. Every past or present hurling player Ive asked also wants more hurling games in June, as do all the people I know on County Boards apart from ours in 3 of the 4 provinces.
So when you ask what's in it for Munster, exactly who are you talking about there? All the supporters, players and administrators I know there want there to be more hurling games in June themselves. Obviously as you said if there AI semifinals and finals then there can't be more games in July, and I never argued that point with you.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20199 - 04/07/2026 13:53:24
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "I think in a championship of 11 teams( one group of 5 and one group of 6) the provincial champions should be rewarded.
The munster ceo( it might have been chair) has come out against it and I tend to agree with him but if it did come in I think that it should be a preliminary qtr final with 3rd v 4th with the winners coming through to play the provincial runners up in the quarter finals proper.
I, personally, would prefer the 2 groups of 3. I thonk something like that used to happen at minor a few years ago. Its far from perfect but gives thr extra games some people seem to want to keep the games profile up." There was a short lived minor round robin with Galway and the 2 beaten Provincial finalists. But it only took place in 2018, 2019 and 2022. After that Galway and Kerry were admitted to the Leinster minor Championship.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20199 - 04/07/2026 14:03:39
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Replying To Viking66: "So you had around 2000 there? I wasnt implying you were poor, you hammered us the year before. You have spent the last few weeks bigging up your support like it was always massive, and I was just reminding you that it only was some of the time. You had a good team in the mid 90s which was well supported wherever they went. This current team is probably your best supported team since then, as its also the best team you have had since then, well its probably your best team ever, although obviously I never saw your 30s team. I did hold in my hand one of Mick Mackeys medals last year when I spent the night after our League game up there with one of his nephews. Ive been to a good few Limerick games too you know, and not just against Wexford." As i keep telling you there is nothing in it for any of us in Munster playing Leinster teams apart from KK and Galway. You cant sell a game away to WM.
Wexford cant sell a game at home to Galway. Start there.
Im not bigging up anything. Im stating facts of the here and now. 92% sell out rate and an average of 27k per game is the current situation and has been around that for a few years now. If you want to go back 11 years or more knock yourself out. This isnt about Limerick . Its about all the Munster teams. Those figures are a collective. The Munster RR is the success story of hurling and Gaa in a similar way that the 6ns is to Rugby Union since you bring that into it.
Throughout my lifetime Limerick have always had good support with the exception of the strike years. Yes it has had peaks but it has always been more than solid. If you have been to a good few Limerick games you will know that. But none of this is about Limerick. Its about the Munster Championship and the success it is. You cannot ignore bums on seats no matter how hard you try.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 710 - 04/07/2026 14:17:19
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Replying To Viking66: "Waterford have a good 1st 15 if they are all uninjured, but need a larger pool of top players." They probably have 21 or 22 but I get the point. Its up to them to develop more. Im sure they are.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 710 - 04/07/2026 14:26:03
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Replying To Viking66: "I didnt dismissed those games as not being relevant, but stated the fact that you already had a good team before the RR format even came in. you won against Tipp, drew with Cork and hammered Waterford in 2018 in your 1st 3 games in Munster, of anything your form dipped as Clare hammered you in the last game. Then you regrouped and won your 1st AI in nearly half a century. The work for this was put in from the start of the noughties after an all county review in Limerick after your defeat to Kilkenny in the Final, at club and county level. It had nothing to do with Round Robins as they only came in after you already had a good team coming.
You dont have to tell me that work has to be put in, Im spending a load of hours every week at all different levels of the game on and off the pitch to try to improve things, as are many other people down here. You seem to think it isnt happening, basing that assumption on what I dont know.
There are no shortcuts, and we arent looking for any.
The other 2 issues arent related to that. The reason I proposed an AI Round Robin in the 1st place was nothing to do with Wexford, particularly as we wouldnt do well in it anyway if we played like we did this year, or our current form at Senior, or any future improvements we might or might not make. Its to do with there being nearly no hurling games at all in around half the intercounty championship window at any level, and that being the best half of that window, the summer months.
And Im not pulling stuff from out of thin air about this, theres a wide debate going on currently in the GAA about it, particularly in hurling counties obviously, but all the way to the top too, as well as the media and supporters around the country.
As regards why would people in Munster counties want it, there are several given to me by people in all 5 Munster hurling counties, the first of which is the diminishing place for hurling within the GAA itself. Hurling was always the little brother to Football, witness the fact that less than 6 heads of coaching and games in the 32 counties come from a hurling background, the rest come from a Football one. As supporters all the lads I know in Munster think there should be more hurling games in June as well, they want more games that time of year. Every past or present hurling player Ive asked also wants more hurling games in June, as do all the people I know on County Boards apart from ours in 3 of the 4 provinces.
So when you ask what's in it for Munster, exactly who are you talking about there? All the supporters, players and administrators I know there want there to be more hurling games in June themselves. Obviously as you said if there AI semifinals and finals then there can't be more games in July, and I never argued that point with you." So let me be sure i fully understand what you are saying here.
You are saying that virtually every hurling person that you know and have spoken to agree with you and want the following
1. To get rid of the munster round robin
2. Push the munster championship back to straight knockout and play it in April.
3. Replace the munster RE with an AI round robin of 2 groups of 6 played in May and June?
( because it cant be played in July due to the hard deadline set by CPA as you pointed out and probably has to end mid june if there is to be quarter finals)
Are you really telling me that virtually every munster hurling person you know is okay with all of that?
Id seriously doubt it.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 710 - 04/07/2026 14:34:02
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Replying To Viking66: "There was a short lived minor round robin with Galway and the 2 beaten Provincial finalists. But it only took place in 2018, 2019 and 2022. After that Galway and Kerry were admitted to the Leinster minor Championship." Yep that's the one im talking about.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 710 - 04/07/2026 14:34:59
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "I think in a championship of 11 teams( one group of 5 and one group of 6) the provincial champions should be rewarded.
The munster ceo( it might have been chair) has come out against it and I tend to agree with him but if it did come in I think that it should be a preliminary qtr final with 3rd v 4th with the winners coming through to play the provincial runners up in the quarter finals proper.
I, personally, would prefer the 2 groups of 3. I thonk something like that used to happen at minor a few years ago. Its far from perfect but gives thr extra games some people seem to want to keep the games profile up." The All Ireland football quarter finals is a big weekend. 4 games over Saturday and Sunday. A 3rd v 4th preliminary hurling quarter final could be the closest hurling gets to something like that. An All Ireland preliminary quarter final and provincial final on the Saturday. Another All Ireland preliminary quarter final and provincial final on the Sunday. The preliminary quarter finals would probably be on GAA+ anyway so shouldn't impact the Joe Mac final being shown as always.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9926 - 04/07/2026 14:45:03
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Replying To Viking66: "I didnt dismissed those games as not being relevant, but stated the fact that you already had a good team before the RR format even came in. you won against Tipp, drew with Cork and hammered Waterford in 2018 in your 1st 3 games in Munster, of anything your form dipped as Clare hammered you in the last game. Then you regrouped and won your 1st AI in nearly half a century. The work for this was put in from the start of the noughties after an all county review in Limerick after your defeat to Kilkenny in the Final, at club and county level. It had nothing to do with Round Robins as they only came in after you already had a good team coming.
You dont have to tell me that work has to be put in, Im spending a load of hours every week at all different levels of the game on and off the pitch to try to improve things, as are many other people down here. You seem to think it isnt happening, basing that assumption on what I dont know.
There are no shortcuts, and we arent looking for any.
The other 2 issues arent related to that. The reason I proposed an AI Round Robin in the 1st place was nothing to do with Wexford, particularly as we wouldnt do well in it anyway if we played like we did this year, or our current form at Senior, or any future improvements we might or might not make. Its to do with there being nearly no hurling games at all in around half the intercounty championship window at any level, and that being the best half of that window, the summer months.
And Im not pulling stuff from out of thin air about this, theres a wide debate going on currently in the GAA about it, particularly in hurling counties obviously, but all the way to the top too, as well as the media and supporters around the country.
As regards why would people in Munster counties want it, there are several given to me by people in all 5 Munster hurling counties, the first of which is the diminishing place for hurling within the GAA itself. Hurling was always the little brother to Football, witness the fact that less than 6 heads of coaching and games in the 32 counties come from a hurling background, the rest come from a Football one. As supporters all the lads I know in Munster think there should be more hurling games in June as well, they want more games that time of year. Every past or present hurling player Ive asked also wants more hurling games in June, as do all the people I know on County Boards apart from ours in 3 of the 4 provinces.
So when you ask what's in it for Munster, exactly who are you talking about there? All the supporters, players and administrators I know there want there to be more hurling games in June themselves. Obviously as you said if there AI semifinals and finals then there can't be more games in July, and I never argued that point with you." We had a young team in 2018. The RR gave them the games they needed to breath. To find their feet and grow which they did just as our minors did this year. We probably learned more in 2019 but that's for someone else to decide. Tipp did similar last season. Offaly did this season and last season. The round robins do more for team development than knockout.
Look at the limerick footballers. Last season they won division 4 of the league( a round robin) . They lost in the MSFC and went into the TC round robin. They built momentum there and reached a TC final. They didnt win it but turned up and gave a great account of themselves against a team ranked far higher. As I have said before every season presents different challenges. They weren't good enough for Division 3 but the change to the TC did them and the weaker teams no favours. Instead of the TC there was the double elimination. No chance to build up from a poor league. Drawn away from home and lost. Drawn away from home again and out. You are against our RR and say it doesnt develop teams. Yet you want to introduce your own version to help develop your team. That seems hypocritical.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 710 - 04/07/2026 15:24:04
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "So let me be sure i fully understand what you are saying here.
You are saying that virtually every hurling person that you know and have spoken to agree with you and want the following
1. To get rid of the munster round robin
2. Push the munster championship back to straight knockout and play it in April.
3. Replace the munster RE with an AI round robin of 2 groups of 6 played in May and June?
( because it cant be played in July due to the hard deadline set by CPA as you pointed out and probably has to end mid june if there is to be quarter finals)
Are you really telling me that virtually every munster hurling person you know is okay with all of that?
Id seriously doubt it." No. Thats not what I said. I said they all want more games of hurling in June. As in something comparable to the number of Football games in June. All the Munster lads I know are hurling only people, except 1 of the friends from West Cork, and a couple from Kerry. The lad from Ardfert would be a hurling 1st man, but likes Football too.
The option I proposed was mainly the easiest in the time scale there is, but alternatively we could keep the Provincial Round Robins, and run the AI Championship along the same lines as the Football AIs. Or run it as an AI RR. But to do that we would have to do away with hurling League finals, and if necessary the pre season comps, and start the League earlier.
The advantage to us in Leinster of an AI RR is Galway would no longer want or need to be in the Leinster Championship. The only benefit they see to playing in Leinster is extra games ahead of a possible AISF. For most of us in Leinster theres no benefit of having Galway in it, which is why most of us voted against Galway joining in the 1st place. A bit like you saying what's the benefit to Munster of not having a Munster Round Robin, despite most of us not wanting Galway, or Antrim for that matter, in our Championship, it was inflicted on us anyway.
Going back to the question I asked you at the outset before we went off on tangents about the state of hurling in Leinster, and the competitiveness currently of the Leinster counties, what way do you see a comparable amount of hurling games to Football games in June being achieved? What would you suggest by way of a format?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20199 - 04/07/2026 15:29:47
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Cork under savage pressure here. I wasn't sure untitled the game started but now I'm very much rooting for Galway.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4597 - 04/07/2026 15:42:19
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "They probably have 21 or 22 but I get the point. Its up to them to develop more. Im sure they are." Alot of the problems for them are the same as the problems for us. As neighbours we play against them more often from u14 upwards than anyone else most years. They do have the advantage of having a 3rd level institution in their county, which helps them keep lads hurling u20. Every year there are lads who dont commit to hurling or football u20 here on account of being at college in Dublin.
As fast as good lads come through from underage others are retiring, travelling or picking up serious injuries.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20199 - 04/07/2026 15:42:59
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "As i keep telling you there is nothing in it for any of us in Munster playing Leinster teams apart from KK and Galway. You cant sell a game away to WM.
Wexford cant sell a game at home to Galway. Start there.
Im not bigging up anything. Im stating facts of the here and now. 92% sell out rate and an average of 27k per game is the current situation and has been around that for a few years now. If you want to go back 11 years or more knock yourself out. This isnt about Limerick . Its about all the Munster teams. Those figures are a collective. The Munster RR is the success story of hurling and Gaa in a similar way that the 6ns is to Rugby Union since you bring that into it.
Throughout my lifetime Limerick have always had good support with the exception of the strike years. Yes it has had peaks but it has always been more than solid. If you have been to a good few Limerick games you will know that. But none of this is about Limerick. Its about the Munster Championship and the success it is. You cannot ignore bums on seats no matter how hard you try." Limerick people I know are very committed, in anything they do. Including supporting their teams. I never said they werent. But a bit like Mullingar being a bit of a trek for a meaningless or not very meaningful game, it is only three quarters the distance to get there from Moroe as it is from my house!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20199 - 04/07/2026 15:48:17
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Nice to give Leinster some representation in this years final.
You're welcome guys!
Seniorleague (Galway) - Posts: 113 - 04/07/2026 18:07:06
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Limerick will have trains to themselves in 2 weeks .Lol
hlynch12 (Limerick) - Posts: 155 - 04/07/2026 20:37:29
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Replying To Viking66: "No. Thats not what I said. I said they all want more games of hurling in June. As in something comparable to the number of Football games in June. All the Munster lads I know are hurling only people, except 1 of the friends from West Cork, and a couple from Kerry. The lad from Ardfert would be a hurling 1st man, but likes Football too.
The option I proposed was mainly the easiest in the time scale there is, but alternatively we could keep the Provincial Round Robins, and run the AI Championship along the same lines as the Football AIs. Or run it as an AI RR. But to do that we would have to do away with hurling League finals, and if necessary the pre season comps, and start the League earlier.
The advantage to us in Leinster of an AI RR is Galway would no longer want or need to be in the Leinster Championship. The only benefit they see to playing in Leinster is extra games ahead of a possible AISF. For most of us in Leinster theres no benefit of having Galway in it, which is why most of us voted against Galway joining in the 1st place. A bit like you saying what's the benefit to Munster of not having a Munster Round Robin, despite most of us not wanting Galway, or Antrim for that matter, in our Championship, it was inflicted on us anyway.
Going back to the question I asked you at the outset before we went off on tangents about the state of hurling in Leinster, and the competitiveness currently of the Leinster counties, what way do you see a comparable amount of hurling games to Football games in June being achieved? What would you suggest by way of a format?" I did answer this but it wasn't published again. I haven't the motivation to try again.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 710 - 04/07/2026 21:10:04
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "I did answer this but it wasn't published again. I haven't the motivation to try again." Thats genuinely a shame Tadg2020. Id of been interested to hear your ideas on getting more games in June.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20199 - 04/07/2026 22:11:59
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