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Replying To Afinestick96: "Im hoping the decision to let lads hurl adult in their last year minor will help with their develop. We wont know the benefits for a few years. Was interesting to see on X last night there were a number of findings following the New Hurling Strategic Plan and recommendations to follow but it didnt say what exactly these findings and recommendations were?" There was alot with the recommendations, maybe Viking would be able to explain them better. It didn't really make good reading. A lot wrong between championship structure, underage games and structures, no follow up on coaching. The only positive thing they had to say was the Rackard League to be honest.
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 575 - 09/12/2025 10:45:16
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Replying To alwaysasub: "There was alot with the recommendations, maybe Viking would be able to explain them better. It didn't really make good reading. A lot wrong between championship structure, underage games and structures, no follow up on coaching. The only positive thing they had to say was the Rackard League to be honest." Jesus it sounds like we have a lot of things to get right alwaysasub. I agree on the championship structure too and dont want us to fall into the trap thinking all is well with our structure because our club teams are doing well now in Leinster. Majority of games in the early rounds of our championship completely lack intensity we need to come up with a far more cut throat format. Maybe think outside the box i.e Top team in both Groups of 6 goes straight to Semi final . 2nd in both Groups plays 4th the other group and 3rd in group A plays 3rd place Group B in the quarter finals. 5th and 6th place in both groups both go into Relegation semi finals. I think a format like this means there is a something on the line in every game and also a huge incentive to finish first so teams will need to up their intensity from the off.
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 778 - 09/12/2025 10:58:17
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Replying To Afinestick96: "Im hoping the decision to let lads hurl adult in their last year minor will help with their develop. We wont know the benefits for a few years. Was interesting to see on X last night there were a number of findings following the New Hurling Strategic Plan and recommendations to follow but it didnt say what exactly these findings and recommendations were?" We might see the benefits of minors playing adult as early as next year as regards our intercounty u20s.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17762 - 09/12/2025 11:47:32
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Replying To Viking66: "Don't think so. If we wanted an ex Ballygunner coach we could've stuck with David Franks." Is David Franks their current coach though?
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 734 - 09/12/2025 12:34:14
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Replying To alwaysasub: "There was alot with the recommendations, maybe Viking would be able to explain them better. It didn't really make good reading. A lot wrong between championship structure, underage games and structures, no follow up on coaching. The only positive thing they had to say was the Rackard League to be honest." They were very positive about most of the things we introduced the last few years. Rising Stars, Go-games, athletic development in PP schools especially but also in general, and Performance Analysis were all highlighted as being things we do better than the other leading counties.
The big problems I had with the recommendations are-
1- they recommended we stop giving direct coaching via GPOs to 8500 NS pupils and instead coach teachers to do it. I can just imagine they will be inundated with teachers wanting to attend coaching courses in Ferns, or District hubs.......I'm being sarcastic here.
2- they also think PP schools will/should up their game, but apart from Counsel they have shown consistently that they arent interested. When Boards of Management were approached and given the Counsel model, they stated their remit was academic education. I think it should've been pointed out to them that there are other facets of student personal development that are also important, physical fitness, teamwork, social skills etc, that would all be developed by playing/training GAA during school class time for pupils that wanted to do it. Volleyball, basketball etc could be offered for pupils who didnt want to play field sports. Peters for example have gone back to 1 training session a week this year, after Wexford coaching and games staff stopped going in there twice a week as they did the last 2 years. The last 2 years their 1st years were near enough unbeaten, it will be interesting to see how they go this year, with what's on paper an unbelievably talented crop of young lads.
3- there was a recommendation that clubs need to up their game as regards coaching etc. That's nothing new, that drum has been banged for a good few years now, but its not universally happened.
4- there seems to have been a consideration of costs, or more specifically cost cutting, in the recommendations. Less GPOs for example.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17762 - 09/12/2025 12:45:17
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Replying To Viking66: "We might see the benefits of minors playing adult as early as next year as regards our intercounty u20s." Really think this is a red herring and the any possible value will be at the cost of overloading good players and losing lesser players.
wexfordwin (Wexford) - Posts: 197 - 09/12/2025 12:48:59
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Replying To Afinestick96: "Jesus it sounds like we have a lot of things to get right alwaysasub. I agree on the championship structure too and dont want us to fall into the trap thinking all is well with our structure because our club teams are doing well now in Leinster. Majority of games in the early rounds of our championship completely lack intensity we need to come up with a far more cut throat format. Maybe think outside the box i.e Top team in both Groups of 6 goes straight to Semi final . 2nd in both Groups plays 4th the other group and 3rd in group A plays 3rd place Group B in the quarter finals. 5th and 6th place in both groups both go into Relegation semi finals. I think a format like this means there is a something on the line in every game and also a huge incentive to finish first so teams will need to up their intensity from the off." Both Derek Kent and the current chairman mentioned in this in their speech's , Derek made the point that in Tyrone its just a straight knockout while John Kenny also spoke about bringing the competitve edge into games that hasnt been there.
What structure they want is anyones guess, I know Derek was on the radio advocating for three groups of 4, top 2 go into semis, then third best 1st place into a quarter with three other second placed team, bottom three along with worst 3rd place into relegation semis.
Dont think there is a perfect structure to be honest that everyone is going to be happy with. Agree though Afinestick96 that there has to be some competitive nature to games that actually matter.
To be fair to the guys doing the report, I dont think anything they said was really a surprise to be honest.
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 575 - 09/12/2025 12:52:23
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I thought the idea that 1st play 2nd, 3rd play 4th and the loser of the first play the winner of the second game had great merit, don't know who proposed it. If you finish top 2, you basically get a second chance if you have an off day.
I would also say relegation should be for the teams with the worst record, teams who win no group game in the groups play off, and if you win 2 games in a group you should not be in relegation playoff.
Best teams in group stage should always be rewarded, worst should be punished. That simple really.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1522 - 09/12/2025 13:00:31
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Replying To Afinestick96: "Im hoping the decision to let lads hurl adult in their last year minor will help with their develop. We wont know the benefits for a few years. Was interesting to see on X last night there were a number of findings following the New Hurling Strategic Plan and recommendations to follow but it didnt say what exactly these findings and recommendations were?" I couldn't attend that presentation that Paul Kinnerk himself gave a couple of weeks ago, so last night was my first time to actually see those findings & recommendations myself. There really is a hell of a lot in it. In fairness, far more than anybody could be expected to summarise on Twitter in just a couple of sentences!
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3306 - 09/12/2025 13:15:50
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Replying To Afinestick96: "Jesus it sounds like we have a lot of things to get right alwaysasub. I agree on the championship structure too and dont want us to fall into the trap thinking all is well with our structure because our club teams are doing well now in Leinster. Majority of games in the early rounds of our championship completely lack intensity we need to come up with a far more cut throat format. Maybe think outside the box i.e Top team in both Groups of 6 goes straight to Semi final . 2nd in both Groups plays 4th the other group and 3rd in group A plays 3rd place Group B in the quarter finals. 5th and 6th place in both groups both go into Relegation semi finals. I think a format like this means there is a something on the line in every game and also a huge incentive to finish first so teams will need to up their intensity from the off." There were a few mentions last night all right about hurling championship structure and how lack of jeopardy is doing it no favours.
Have never liked the current 'everybody goes through anyway' structure myself. Can't help hoping that since people were quick to pay heed to Kinnerk over 'allow U18s to play adult' that they'll pay equal heed to this thing when championship structures for 2026 are decided next month.
Just an observation on the system you suggest yourself - wouldn't work, because you're putting two teams straight through to semi-finals (the two group winners), and then playing three quarter-finals for the other two spots:
- 2nd Group A v 4th Group B
- 2nd Group B v 4th Group A
- 3rd Group A v 3rd Group B
But anyway, I remember former Chairman Micheal Martin having a similar suggestion a few years go: group winners straight to semi-finals, 2nd and 3rd play quarter-finals, 4th are finished, 5th and 6th play relegation semi-finals. There'd be something serious on the line in just about every match.
But it didn't even go to the floor, because of how clubs would surely vote against it when they thought of their own interests ahead of the championship as a whole. Why lessen your own chances by voting for something where only three teams would go through, instead of four, or maybe even six?
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3306 - 09/12/2025 13:24:38
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Replying To Afinestick96: "Jesus it sounds like we have a lot of things to get right alwaysasub. I agree on the championship structure too and dont want us to fall into the trap thinking all is well with our structure because our club teams are doing well now in Leinster. Majority of games in the early rounds of our championship completely lack intensity we need to come up with a far more cut throat format. Maybe think outside the box i.e Top team in both Groups of 6 goes straight to Semi final . 2nd in both Groups plays 4th the other group and 3rd in group A plays 3rd place Group B in the quarter finals. 5th and 6th place in both groups both go into Relegation semi finals. I think a format like this means there is a something on the line in every game and also a huge incentive to finish first so teams will need to up their intensity from the off." Derek Kent highlighted the need to change our structures. Personally I think 6 team groups are too many. Basically we are playing another League. In Kilkenny, who came up with the current system we have, they even call the group stage a League, because it is, and play a League final betwesn the 2 group toppers. Thomastown beat OLG 1-19 to 0-17 points in this years league final. They call the games that follow the relegation semifinals, the knockout stages, their championship. Ballyhale beat both these teams in the knockout stages, what Kilkenny call their championship.
So basically we adopted Kilkennys League and Championship and called the whole lot a championship, and then wondered why alot of clubs and players didnt take the group stages that seriously. Couldn't make it up.....I'm sure plenty of Kilkenny lads had a right laugh at us over that one!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17762 - 09/12/2025 13:35:46
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Replying To Pikeman96: "There were a few mentions last night all right about hurling championship structure and how lack of jeopardy is doing it no favours.
Have never liked the current 'everybody goes through anyway' structure myself. Can't help hoping that since people were quick to pay heed to Kinnerk over 'allow U18s to play adult' that they'll pay equal heed to this thing when championship structures for 2026 are decided next month.
Just an observation on the system you suggest yourself - wouldn't work, because you're putting two teams straight through to semi-finals (the two group winners), and then playing three quarter-finals for the other two spots:
- 2nd Group A v 4th Group B
- 2nd Group B v 4th Group A
- 3rd Group A v 3rd Group B
But anyway, I remember former Chairman Micheal Martin having a similar suggestion a few years go: group winners straight to semi-finals, 2nd and 3rd play quarter-finals, 4th are finished, 5th and 6th play relegation semi-finals. There'd be something serious on the line in just about every match.
But it didn't even go to the floor, because of how clubs would surely vote against it when they thought of their own interests ahead of the championship as a whole. Why lessen your own chances by voting for something where only three teams would go through, instead of four, or maybe even six?" That sounds the same as what Derek proposed on SE radio. I still think 6 team groups are too large, there are too many games with not enough breaks. Not good for injuries/burnout etc. Would be grand if we played the Football Championship at a different time of year like Kilkenny do.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17762 - 09/12/2025 13:43:50
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Replying To Pikeman96: "There were a few mentions last night all right about hurling championship structure and how lack of jeopardy is doing it no favours.
Have never liked the current 'everybody goes through anyway' structure myself. Can't help hoping that since people were quick to pay heed to Kinnerk over 'allow U18s to play adult' that they'll pay equal heed to this thing when championship structures for 2026 are decided next month.
Just an observation on the system you suggest yourself - wouldn't work, because you're putting two teams straight through to semi-finals (the two group winners), and then playing three quarter-finals for the other two spots:
- 2nd Group A v 4th Group B
- 2nd Group B v 4th Group A
- 3rd Group A v 3rd Group B
But anyway, I remember former Chairman Micheal Martin having a similar suggestion a few years go: group winners straight to semi-finals, 2nd and 3rd play quarter-finals, 4th are finished, 5th and 6th play relegation semi-finals. There'd be something serious on the line in just about every match.
But it didn't even go to the floor, because of how clubs would surely vote against it when they thought of their own interests ahead of the championship as a whole. Why lessen your own chances by voting for something where only three teams would go through, instead of four, or maybe even six?" Sorry Pikeman96 my mistake. I agree with Michael Martins format. Whatever happens something has to be on the line in each game and the current format isnt working in my opinion.
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 778 - 09/12/2025 14:04:32
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4 groups of 3 a,b ,c ,d
Seeding the 3 pots
Ie top
Pot 1, 1 2 3 4 pot 2 , 5 6 7 8 pot3 , 9 10 11 12 ,
Open draw each group gets 1 from each pot.
Groups a plays 3 teams in group b
Group c plays 3 teams group d
Or draw out the 2 groups to play each other to be fair.
Keep one table only .
Each team gets 3 games in group
Every game and score difference will be crucial .
Groups of 4 could be decided after 2 rounds .
Top 6 into 1/4 final . 7 to 10 into prelimary 1/4 final to give everyone 4 games minimum .
Or top 8 into 1 /4 finals and relegation semi for bottom 4 .
Personslly Still prefer prelim 1/4 final for 7 to 10
And bottom 2 in table deservedly in relegation final .
All teams get 4 games of consequences with jeopardy minimum .
Doubt hurling clubs only, will go for that or the hurling purists . Not enough games
The quality of games would certainly improve .
Could be done on same weekend or say in 2 nd round games split the weekends to give games most weeks for the county board and spectators might get chance go to more games. . Only downfall might be last round to be fair all games should be played at same time. But that's not feasible. And I don't think regardless No team could take a chance if trying eek out a result .
After the 2nd round fixtures committee could sit down and see which 3 games could be played at same time where those 3 games have a bearing on the other 2 if you get what I mean . Bit of thiught znd neutral thinking on their part.
There's prob other feasible formats too .
Maybe the more we think and post between everyone in the county we might come up with one that works . Certainly any format has to be better than present one . Whichever they go for it should apply to both codes though .
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 507 - 09/12/2025 14:07:19
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Martins' to play Ballygunner in Semple on Sunday week
Maybe Nowlan Park's lack of lights was an issue? Although they could have always had the Martins' game there at 13:30 and then the other game in Parnell Park at 15:30
Wonder would the Martins' nearly prefer to toss on a home and away basis rather than play in Thurles?
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 734 - 09/12/2025 14:15:38
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "Martins' to play Ballygunner in Semple on Sunday week
Maybe Nowlan Park's lack of lights was an issue? Although they could have always had the Martins' game there at 13:30 and then the other game in Parnell Park at 15:30
Wonder would the Martins' nearly prefer to toss on a home and away basis rather than play in Thurles?" Very dissapointing venue choice. Was expecting it to be in Nowlan park at at 13.00 or 13.30 with the other semi final the Saturday evening in Parnell park. Why Wexford teams are constantly sent to Thurles is beyond me.
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 778 - 09/12/2025 15:00:44
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "Martins' to play Ballygunner in Semple on Sunday week
Maybe Nowlan Park's lack of lights was an issue? Although they could have always had the Martins' game there at 13:30 and then the other game in Parnell Park at 15:30
Wonder would the Martins' nearly prefer to toss on a home and away basis rather than play in Thurles?" That is disappointing. The difference between going or not for a lot of people from other Wexford clubs I think.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4064 - 09/12/2025 15:06:51
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "Martins' to play Ballygunner in Semple on Sunday week
Maybe Nowlan Park's lack of lights was an issue? Although they could have always had the Martins' game there at 13:30 and then the other game in Parnell Park at 15:30
Wonder would the Martins' nearly prefer to toss on a home and away basis rather than play in Thurles?" They agreed to toss for home and away but Ballygunner wouldn't agree hence Thurles.
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 575 - 09/12/2025 15:19:28
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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To Pikeman96: "There were a few mentions last night all right about hurling championship structure and how lack of jeopardy is doing it no favours.
Have never liked the current 'everybody goes through anyway' structure myself. Can't help hoping that since people were quick to pay heed to Kinnerk over 'allow U18s to play adult' that they'll pay equal heed to this thing when championship structures for 2026 are decided next month.
Just an observation on the system you suggest yourself - wouldn't work, because you're putting two teams straight through to semi-finals (the two group winners), and then playing <u>three</u> quarter-finals for the other two spots:
- 2nd Group A v 4th Group B
- 2nd Group B v 4th Group A
- 3rd Group A v 3rd Group B
But anyway, I remember former Chairman Micheal Martin having a similar suggestion a few years go: group winners straight to semi-finals, 2nd and 3rd play quarter-finals, 4th are finished, 5th and 6th play relegation semi-finals. There'd be something serious on the line in just about every match.
But it didn't even go to the floor, because of how clubs would surely vote against it when they thought of their own interests ahead of the championship as a whole. Why lessen your own chances by voting for something where only three teams would go through, instead of four, or maybe even six?"</div>That sounds the same as what Derek proposed on SE radio. I still think 6 team groups are too large, there are too many games with not enough breaks. Not good for injuries/burnout etc. Would be grand if we played the Football Championship at a different time of year like Kilkenny do." I think the same. There are too many matches. Three groups of 4 with something on the line every game. You also aren't playing the same teams every year and a bit of a novility in the draw. More breaks between games less pressure. I know someone mentioned just having the bottom Two into relegation final but with a semi it means there should be always something to play to.
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 575 - 09/12/2025 15:22:23
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Replying To Doylerwex: "That is disappointing. The difference between going or not for a lot of people from other Wexford clubs I think." I agree very disappointing . Would have expected a huge crowd in Kilkenny with a lot of natural support from Wexford . Thurles is much further to travel for both Clubs makes no sense whatsoever.
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 778 - 09/12/2025 15:50:34
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