National Forum

How Do We Take Hurling On From Here

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To Tadhg2020:  "Its called forward planning. Ensuring that it can never happen again. If you recall your county were to the forefront in calling for the change. They weren't going to be the immediate beneficiary of the change but they knew thst once it came in that they would be the ultimate beneficiaries once the got their house in order and returned. To be fair they are back and probably need that insurance policy for the next few years and if they improve quicker then the team that drops below them will benefit. Forward planning and taking out insurance. Both very prudent practice."
Leinster Council proposed the motion, although Michael Duignan was strongly in favour of it. It passed with a 95% vote, I wonder who objected to it?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18871 - 24/03/2026 11:02:45    2662786

Link

Replying To legendzxix:  "All Ireland qualification is what makes the Munster championship. The Munster CEO fears any moves for 4 from each province going forward to the All Ireland series will impact the Munster championship.
Munster has 5 battling for 3. Leinster realistically has 4 battling for 3. Noone promoted to Leinster has been able to close the gap consistently to the top 4. Offaly would be the best prospects but not looking likely after their league campaign."
They were in the top division though.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 108 - 24/03/2026 11:02:54    2662787

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "Leinster Council proposed the motion, although Michael Duignan was strongly in favour of it. It passed with a 95% vote, I wonder who objected to it?"
One of the golden rules of lobbying. Always get the governing body to do the heavy lifting if at all possible. Never propose it yourself if you want itvto succeed under the guise its being proposed. Always secure the support first. These are the basic principles of politics in any arena and particularly the gaa.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 108 - 24/03/2026 11:32:16    2662792

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "Leinster Council proposed the motion, although Michael Duignan was strongly in favour of it. It passed with a 95% vote, I wonder who objected to it?"
I presume that Galway dont get a vote so Kilkenny?

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 108 - 24/03/2026 11:37:22    2662797

Link

I see the new hurling rules come into effect this coming Saturday. It will be interesting to see how they change the game. Id have liked to see the solo and go rule adapted also but baby steps and all that.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 108 - 24/03/2026 11:47:16    2662803

Link

Replying To Tadhg2020:  "Its an insurance policy for the traditional counties. Thats my point. Thats how it works out well for ye as in whoever is the weakest of the 5 now that Offaly are back. Thats what it is for. It provides a buffer zone for the rest so that an Offaly should never happen again. It probably wont because even on yere( other 5) worst day you wont finish below that 6th team. Does anyone really believe that anyone other than kildare will finish bottom?
The other teams can pretend that it was great for hurling. It was for a year or 2 but everyone , including the teams that voted for it, knew what it was really about and that once Offaly got their act together somewhat that none of the 5 would be relegated. Even if wexford do keep losing to the weakest team in it.( i didnt realise it waa so common for ye to do that). So again, how does it benefit Laois, Carlow(i forgot them last time), Antrim , Westmeath or Kildare to be in this 6 team championship anymore than it did benefit them being in the 5 team one now that Offaly are back?
It doesn't."
Have to say I find it somewhat ironic that you criticise this as being a perceived "insurance policy" for traditional counties, when Munster has the ultimate insurance policy for them!

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3409 - 24/03/2026 11:51:31    2662808

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "Do Munster really have 5 battling for 3? Some years Tipp have been poor enough, and Waterford have never got out of the Round Robin."
Just because they didn't get out does not mean they were not 'battling' to do so. Waterford have been very close on a couple of occasions. So yes, Munster really does have 5 teams battling for 3 places. It's what makes it so special.....

bloodandbandage (Cork) - Posts: 473 - 24/03/2026 11:57:02    2662811

Link

Replying To Tadhg2020:  "They were in the top division though."
They were, and outside the 3 obvious teams in Galway, KK and Dublin, they will see themselves as having a good chance at being next placed to challenge those 3.

bloodandbandage (Cork) - Posts: 473 - 24/03/2026 12:05:58    2662815

Link

Replying To Tadhg2020:  "I dont think its distorted at all. If you look at who drove the push for the change to 6 you will see that it was the very county that needed the breathing space that the extension now provides. It was forward planning at its finest and a great piece of work on their part. Their job is to promote and protect the interests of their county first and foremost and they achieved that. The rest is in their own hands.
Offaly are comfortably the 5th best team in the Bob and may even push on up to 4th and challenge for 3rd this season. They played division 1 hurling this season while the 3 teams they are competing with were in division 2. That should stand to them but we will see.
As for looking at it again when what I have predicted becomes the norm, what can be done? Move to 7 teams and the trap door from 6th to 7th? Thats not in anyone's interest and damages the Bob Cup even further."
I don't know why you're referring to it as the Bob o Keefe, that's the name of the trophy, not the competition. If it's meant to be disrespectful It's not really having that effect, it just sounds odd.

But as for the last line, is it not the case that if Offaly become competitive and start pushing for 3rd in leinster, and if as you say they are "comfoortably the 5th best team in the Bob" then the system is working? I'm really not understanding what your issue is other than having a cut at wexford and Offaly. So what if Offaly had selfish reasons for wanting this system? Are you suggesting that Leinster should have stayed at 5?

As for damaging the Leinster championship, as soemone has said already, the Leisnter championship is shouldering the burden for development, because Munster in fairness, drives public interest and marketing. It is as good an arrangement as is realistically possible.

Overdahill (Galway) - Posts: 93 - 24/03/2026 12:35:00    2662829

Link

Replying To Pikeman96:  "Have to say I find it somewhat ironic that you criticise this as being a perceived "insurance policy" for traditional counties, when Munster has the ultimate insurance policy for them!"
Is that really all you can come up with?

The debate is about whether the Bob O Keeffe actually benefitted from the extension of the competition to 6 or whether the real beneficiaries are the 5 teams and in particular those from the 5 most threatened by relegation. Most would say that Offaly are the most likely beneficiary and they did last season. Im not sure they will be that team this season but either way the benefit exists.
We will find out over the next few seasons but I think that we already know that the promoted team are very likely to go down again going forward. That is and was entirely predictable.

As for the munster championship, that is just a political argument that you are making. If relegation was truly merit based then relegation from the Munster Championship would be to the Bob O Keeffe Cup. Thats not Munsters fault. Thats on Leinster. Of course it will never happen nor should it but its the logical path based on merit and strength of competition.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 108 - 24/03/2026 12:36:00    2662830

Link

Replying To Tadhg2020:  "I presume that Galway dont get a vote so Kilkenny?"
Why would Galway have no vote? It was a motion at Congress. Even Warwickshire had a vote.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18871 - 24/03/2026 12:39:17    2662833

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "Do Munster really have 5 battling for 3? Some years Tipp have been poor enough, and Waterford have never got out of the Round Robin."
Some years can play out that a team might not quite challenge. Same applies in Leinster. Wexford the year they avoided relegation weren't challenging for top 3. Can happen in either province.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9563 - 24/03/2026 12:43:24    2662834

Link

Replying To Tadhg2020:  "I dont think its distorted at all. If you look at who drove the push for the change to 6 you will see that it was the very county that needed the breathing space that the extension now provides. It was forward planning at its finest and a great piece of work on their part. Their job is to promote and protect the interests of their county first and foremost and they achieved that. The rest is in their own hands.
Offaly are comfortably the 5th best team in the Bob and may even push on up to 4th and challenge for 3rd this season. They played division 1 hurling this season while the 3 teams they are competing with were in division 2. That should stand to them but we will see.
As for looking at it again when what I have predicted becomes the norm, what can be done? Move to 7 teams and the trap door from 6th to 7th? Thats not in anyone's interest and damages the Bob Cup even further."
Not sure playing div1 hurling really is that relevant to Championship form. We played div1 hurling last year, won in Ennis and Limerick, but still didnt finish in the top 3 in the Leinster Championship. Waterford were in 1b and had their joint second best ever Munster Round Robin, they actually won a game. Dublin didnt even get promoted from 1b and beat Limerick on their way to an AISF. Tipp have always been in the top tier of the League in the Round Robin years but have failed to win even one game at all in half the Munster Round Robins to date.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18871 - 24/03/2026 12:52:44    2662836

Link

Replying To Tadhg2020:  "They were in the top division though."
Thats irrelevant

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18871 - 24/03/2026 12:53:27    2662837

Link

Replying To bloodandbandage:  "Just because they didn't get out does not mean they were not 'battling' to do so. Waterford have been very close on a couple of occasions. So yes, Munster really does have 5 teams battling for 3 places. It's what makes it so special....."
Waterford have never been very close. The most points they ever got was 3, and that was only once. In 6 years they only have 4 wins.
Tipp are only marginally better really in Round Robins. In 3 of the 6 years they didnt win a game at all, which is actually worse in a way than Waterford, who have only "achieved" that distinction twice.
In fairness to Tipp on the occasions they have actually made the top 3 they have won 2 AIs.
Thats probably why the Round Robin is deeply unpopular in Waterford, who reached an AI final in the last year of the knockout format and when it briefly returned on account of covid in 2020, and with alot of Tipp people I know too.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18871 - 24/03/2026 13:01:40    2662838

Link

Replying To bloodandbandage:  "They were, and outside the 3 obvious teams in Galway, KK and Dublin, they will see themselves as having a good chance at being next placed to challenge those 3."
Yes for sure. Its up to ourselves and Offaly to upset the favourites this year. We really need to up our games in a big way in general though, our AI droughts are the next 2 longest after Corks, which is a terrible statistic for all of us.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18871 - 24/03/2026 13:07:24    2662840

Link

Replying To legendzxix:  "Some years can play out that a team might not quite challenge. Same applies in Leinster. Wexford the year they avoided relegation weren't challenging for top 3. Can happen in either province."
We were abject in 2023, there's no point dressing it up any other way. We lost to Westmeath after being 17 points up before half time, and lost to Dublin after hitting over 20 wides.
The only other year we failed to finish in the top 3 was on head to head though.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18871 - 24/03/2026 13:17:32    2662846

Link

Replying To Tadhg2020:  "Is that really all you can come up with?

The debate is about whether the Bob O Keeffe actually benefitted from the extension of the competition to 6 or whether the real beneficiaries are the 5 teams and in particular those from the 5 most threatened by relegation. Most would say that Offaly are the most likely beneficiary and they did last season. Im not sure they will be that team this season but either way the benefit exists.
We will find out over the next few seasons but I think that we already know that the promoted team are very likely to go down again going forward. That is and was entirely predictable.

As for the munster championship, that is just a political argument that you are making. If relegation was truly merit based then relegation from the Munster Championship would be to the Bob O Keeffe Cup. Thats not Munsters fault. Thats on Leinster. Of course it will never happen nor should it but its the logical path based on merit and strength of competition."
Noine I know in Wexford thinks the 6 team format has benefited us. In fact quite the opposite, in half the years there has been a 6 team format its cost us a chance of winning Bob.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18871 - 24/03/2026 13:19:12    2662849

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "Waterford have never been very close. The most points they ever got was 3, and that was only once. In 6 years they only have 4 wins.
Tipp are only marginally better really in Round Robins. In 3 of the 6 years they didnt win a game at all, which is actually worse in a way than Waterford, who have only "achieved" that distinction twice.
In fairness to Tipp on the occasions they have actually made the top 3 they have won 2 AIs.
Thats probably why the Round Robin is deeply unpopular in Waterford, who reached an AI final in the last year of the knockout format and when it briefly returned on account of covid in 2020, and with alot of Tipp people I know too."
In the last six years since 2020 to 2025 all 5 munster counties have contested an All Ireland final. I think only Kilkenny have from leinster.
If the purpose of your post is to attempt to equate the MSHC somehow to the Bob O Keeffe then that just isnt based on any reality. Yes surprises can happen but the overall quality on offer is far superior.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 108 - 24/03/2026 13:21:13    2662851

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "Waterford have never been very close. The most points they ever got was 3, and that was only once. In 6 years they only have 4 wins.
Tipp are only marginally better really in Round Robins. In 3 of the 6 years they didnt win a game at all, which is actually worse in a way than Waterford, who have only "achieved" that distinction twice.
In fairness to Tipp on the occasions they have actually made the top 3 they have won 2 AIs.
Thats probably why the Round Robin is deeply unpopular in Waterford, who reached an AI final in the last year of the knockout format and when it briefly returned on account of covid in 2020, and with alot of Tipp people I know too."
On its unpopularity of the round robin. I think that the attendees speak for its popularity themselves. I need say no more.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 108 - 24/03/2026 13:23:20    2662854

Link