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Replying To ExiledInWex: "I often wonder Wexford people. So a new manager, with some good u20 players coming through, shouldn't be aiming to win a Leinster title in a few years?
Imagine if a new manager came in and said his aim was to finish 3rd in Leinster and hope to give a good account of Wexford in a quarter final. He would be ridiculed, and proper order. I'm fairly confident any club manager would be most likely able to get Wexford to 3rd in Leinster!
I'm a Dublin hurling supporter first and foremost and then a Wexford supporter but I am sure Micheal Donohue said he wanted Dublin in year 1 to finish 3rd in Leinster and then to push for a Leinster title in year 2 and 3.
Tearintom you are right Wexford should forget about Leinster club competitions and spread out their domestic championships. If there was a 4G pitch or two in Wexford then the issue of bad pitches and weather goes away.
Above all though, these lads need to be hurling at higher levels in school if you ask me.
The goals for Wexford hurling need to be winning minor and u20 All-Irelands in the next 5 years. This thing of winning a senior All-Ireland by 2025 or whenever it was is stupid without underage success, I don't see how it could happen." Agree we should be trying harder to win an underage AI. I know we won a Senior AI without winning an underage AI beforehand but that's not the way it usually happens.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16457 - 25/07/2023 17:19:04
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "As someone rightly pointed out yesterday while of course the new manager is vital they'll be only as good as the backroom team around them, look at Limerick Kiely obviously has done a massive job but he has 2 people who are the best in class in their field around him in Caroline Currid and Paul Kinnerick." I agree the role of Kinnerk is huge but I think the talk of psychologists is over done in GAA. This Limerick team was coming from when they beat Wexford in that U21 final. Its not like they came out of the blue.
You only find out how good a coach is after the fact. A lot was made of Willie Cleary's CV and how he was a great up and coming mind yet how good were Wexford the last 2 years. His minor team might have won Leinster but the semi final they were in a different sphere to Galway.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1412 - 25/07/2023 18:26:35
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Replying To wexfan09: "Rarely post here but follow a lot of the forums. Lots of talk re the new senior manager. I don't think it's a job anyone wants and whoever takes it is nuts, it's like the poison chalice so I can't imagine anyone is knocking Micheál Martins door down for it.
Can't see Fortune travel down for it considering where he lives.
Are the co board or other externals willing to put forward the €€€€'s to get the right back room team in?
Rossiter getting a lot of stick here re the last U20 final too and his 'credentials'. Did anyone ever think that maybe his tactics were right but they weren't implemented on the pitch? Has anyone watched their game plans over the past two years? The players did things in that final that they have never done over the past two years, for instance, trying to solo distances and getting caught every time! Not part of the plan but they did it anyone. Did anyone hear Rossiter roaring in at them to 'deliver it in' 'stop running into trouble' 'get back to the plan' ? I did because I was sitting behind him.
I get the manager is the nucleus of it all, but sometimes, no matter how much instruction is given, it's ignored.
I think sometimes we're way too critical of these men/women on the line, for what's an amateur sport and for what you get little thanks for in the grand scheme of things! Who in the name of all that's holy would want the next Wexford Senior job, because unless they win the All Ireland next year, they're going to be ridiculed regardless!
It needs to be a rebuilding phase of 3-5 years with no real expectations in that timeframe, and maybe a joint effort between a few men, be it someone experienced from outside the county and someone with less experience form Wexford." To be fair I don't think anyone expects the all Ireland.
Another provincial title is a reasonable ambition.
The gap between us and kk Galway is workable I think.
That has to be the target.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3790 - 25/07/2023 18:34:04
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "I often wonder Wexford people. So a new manager, with some good u20 players coming through, shouldn't be aiming to win a Leinster title in a few years?
Imagine if a new manager came in and said his aim was to finish 3rd in Leinster and hope to give a good account of Wexford in a quarter final. He would be ridiculed, and proper order. I'm fairly confident any club manager would be most likely able to get Wexford to 3rd in Leinster!
I'm a Dublin hurling supporter first and foremost and then a Wexford supporter but I am sure Micheal Donohue said he wanted Dublin in year 1 to finish 3rd in Leinster and then to push for a Leinster title in year 2 and 3.
Tearintom you are right Wexford should forget about Leinster club competitions and spread out their domestic championships. If there was a 4G pitch or two in Wexford then the issue of bad pitches and weather goes away.
Above all though, these lads need to be hurling at higher levels in school if you ask me.
The goals for Wexford hurling need to be winning minor and u20 All-Irelands in the next 5 years. This thing of winning a senior All-Ireland by 2025 or whenever it was is stupid without underage success, I don't see how it could happen." I'm not so sure.
Winning underage all Ireland is helpful but not a garuntee of senior success.
Generally we have very good 14 and 16 teams, OK minors and improve again at 20. Our lads do well at fitzgibbon level for the most part.
If you can get 3 or 4 players a year you'll be doing OK.
Lads mature at different rates which is fine.
I think a leinster final has to be our goal and that's not outrageous.
We can't accept finishing 4th in leinster if we have any ambition and that's the reality.
Imagine what Leinster would look like if Wexford could produce kilkenny form all the time and Dublin produce Galway form.
We'd be seeing a lot more of each other
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3790 - 25/07/2023 18:47:26
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "I often wonder Wexford people. So a new manager, with some good u20 players coming through, shouldn't be aiming to win a Leinster title in a few years?
Imagine if a new manager came in and said his aim was to finish 3rd in Leinster and hope to give a good account of Wexford in a quarter final. He would be ridiculed, and proper order. I'm fairly confident any club manager would be most likely able to get Wexford to 3rd in Leinster!
I'm a Dublin hurling supporter first and foremost and then a Wexford supporter but I am sure Micheal Donohue said he wanted Dublin in year 1 to finish 3rd in Leinster and then to push for a Leinster title in year 2 and 3.
Tearintom you are right Wexford should forget about Leinster club competitions and spread out their domestic championships. If there was a 4G pitch or two in Wexford then the issue of bad pitches and weather goes away.
Above all though, these lads need to be hurling at higher levels in school if you ask me.
The goals for Wexford hurling need to be winning minor and u20 All-Irelands in the next 5 years. This thing of winning a senior All-Ireland by 2025 or whenever it was is stupid without underage success, I don't see how it could happen." I think the level of ambition is rock bottom and the biggest issue facing the county. 3rd place in Leinster and a defeat to Clare in a QF seems to be the bar. How many of the players apparently wanted Egan back after the shambles this year would worry me most for the future. Ryan, Recks, O'Connor's, Chin, Foley's, Donohue, MOH, Mac, McGovern - based on ability alone if any of these were from KK they would have got game time on Sunday with a lot of them starting. To state the obvious but to deservedly beat KK two years in a row while failing to beat Westmeath either year is just ridiculous.
Some U20s to mix in with the group above and we should be pushing hard to split KK and Galway next year. Dublin should be better too. We have more lads I think likely to be a success at senior from u20 than any other Leinster county (fair play to Rossiter for that) so I think the next few years should be positive if everyone pulls together.
Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 432 - 25/07/2023 20:44:47
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Replying To Viking66: "Agree we should be trying harder to win an underage AI. I know we won a Senior AI without winning an underage AI beforehand but that's not the way it usually happens." Id agree 100% we need to start by winning underage titles . We havent won one in nearly 50 years. For a proud hurling county that is simply not good enough. The minimum we should expect is our underage teams to be ultra competitive . The last two under 20 teams have been competitive but we need more coming behind them again
Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 26/07/2023 09:01:39
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "I agree the role of Kinnerk is huge but I think the talk of psychologists is over done in GAA. This Limerick team was coming from when they beat Wexford in that U21 final. Its not like they came out of the blue.
You only find out how good a coach is after the fact. A lot was made of Willie Cleary's CV and how he was a great up and coming mind yet how good were Wexford the last 2 years. His minor team might have won Leinster but the semi final they were in a different sphere to Galway." We did beat Offaly, Laois , Dublin and Kilkenny to win the Leinster minor that year. But it was an excellent group of players. Not sure how much Willie Cleary had to do with it tbh. Whatever happened to David Cantwell does anyone know? Around half dozen of that team werent hurling u20 intercounty this year or last.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16457 - 26/07/2023 11:19:19
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I think we need to be careful placing too many expectations on the shoulders of children (minors) and young lads (u20s). IT would be wonderful to see us win more at these levels but the winning is a means to an end not an end i in itself and really the consistency and volume of quality players produced is more important than winning at this level (IMO). Maybe this is happening with Director of hurling BUT I would like to see focus and investment in raising the standards of coaching at club and development squad level. This is not meant in anyway to call into question the work these people (I am one with a young age group with a club) but we can all, always be better. We have an issue developing people with the skills, ability and willingness to take on the senior management role, the majority of managers over the past 30 years have I think come from outside the county which underscores this gap. We need to foster coaching and managerial talent alongside playing talent. I would love to see top class coaches coming into clubs, mentoring, working alongside coaches for a season, offering ideas, support, demonstrating, challenging, lifting standards. Then put in place a system within clubs whereby more experience coaches, who have received this 'training' share and trickle it down to others in the club.
We have the 'Wexford Way' framework, https://wexfordgaa.ie/the-wexford-way/ which should serve a the basis of this.
wexford2012 (Wexford) - Posts: 119 - 26/07/2023 11:20:36
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Replying To Doylerwex: "I'm not so sure.
Winning underage all Ireland is helpful but not a garuntee of senior success.
Generally we have very good 14 and 16 teams, OK minors and improve again at 20. Our lads do well at fitzgibbon level for the most part.
If you can get 3 or 4 players a year you'll be doing OK.
Lads mature at different rates which is fine.
I think a leinster final has to be our goal and that's not outrageous.
We can't accept finishing 4th in leinster if we have any ambition and that's the reality.
Imagine what Leinster would look like if Wexford could produce kilkenny form all the time and Dublin produce Galway form.
We'd be seeing a lot more of each other" Consistency is the key. And that has to be the primary thing to sort out for the new management team. Then after that bringing on and developing the newer and younger panel members. Proper nutrition, S and C, Senior training and Senior games during the Walsh Cup and League, with multiple gameplans devised to suit the players selected and practiced in training and challenge games before being practiced in the League.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16457 - 26/07/2023 11:23:19
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Replying To Viking66: "Those things should be a given for a lad wanting to play Senior intercounty. Or even 1st team club. It's not up to an intercounty management set up to teach those things. But it is up to them to send the lads out on the pitch mentally prepared to execute all those things, and devise gameplans to suit the strengths of the players we have. We can't grow lads upwards who are already in their 20s. Cork were able to devise a gameplan in the late 90s to suit the smaller forwards they had back then. Clare likewise in 2013. Even Limerick these days don't hump it long repeatedly like we have done the last 2 years, and they are far better equipped physically to do this than we are. Also no other intercounty team has ever had 18 first team panel members injured for at least a few weeks if not a few months in one season in all the time I'm watching hurling. And that was all in a 4 month period this year." I agree they should be a given at senior intercounty level, but if you look at the past few years, it's what we're seriously lacking!! Work rate is abysmal most days. We need a manager that is going to get them to execute all these thing every day, consistently. And as you said, then add on the game plans/tactics and adapt the game to suit what players we have.
wexfan09 (Wexford) - Posts: 33 - 26/07/2023 15:42:49
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Replying To wexfan09: "I agree they should be a given at senior intercounty level, but if you look at the past few years, it's what we're seriously lacking!! Work rate is abysmal most days. We need a manager that is going to get them to execute all these thing every day, consistently. And as you said, then add on the game plans/tactics and adapt the game to suit what players we have." Don't want to keep going on about it at this stage, but the only difference between the kilkenny game, and first halves against Galway, antrim and westmeath and all that went wrong was conviction.
I still find the day in Croke Park incredibly hard to take. They looked disinterested.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3790 - 27/07/2023 08:10:08
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Look, I went to college with 2 lads from Limerick who were part of those development squads at the same time as many of the now players. From what I gathered these squads were unbelievable both in terms of the facilities provided to them (which cost lots and lots of money) but also in terms of the calibre of coaching and the number of full time coaches. They said that Anthony Daly and Joe McKenna I think it was were pivotal in their roles within these setups. Neither made it through to senior county level but the bar was so high they couldn't make it.
Now, you need massive financial backing for these things which I believe was no object. And its paid off in spades.
The problem Wexford, and many other counties have, is they don't have that financial clout to pay for this in my view. Players and county board needing to fundraise and run events to raise money which raises small enough money truth be told I would bet.
Long story short, I think unless Wexford can find backing to invest massively in underage coaching, development squads, coaches, I think we are miles away. Someone above talked about schools. If I was Wexford GAA, I'd be getting a full time coach or two into the schools in Enniscorthy, Gorey and Bunclody and get them to move between the schools a couple of days a week with a view to getting these schools playing A level hurling.
Spending money at adult level is a fools errand if there isn't a conveyor belt of players up to the standard.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1886 - 27/07/2023 10:12:24
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Replying To Doylerwex: "Don't want to keep going on about it at this stage, but the only difference between the kilkenny game, and first halves against Galway, antrim and westmeath and all that went wrong was conviction.
I still find the day in Croke Park incredibly hard to take. They looked disinterested." Was fitness an issue? As in mental fatigue not physical. What was said at halftime in those games?
Inconsistency isn't a recent problem. It's beset Wexford hurling all millennium.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16457 - 27/07/2023 10:27:55
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Look, I went to college with 2 lads from Limerick who were part of those development squads at the same time as many of the now players. From what I gathered these squads were unbelievable both in terms of the facilities provided to them (which cost lots and lots of money) but also in terms of the calibre of coaching and the number of full time coaches. They said that Anthony Daly and Joe McKenna I think it was were pivotal in their roles within these setups. Neither made it through to senior county level but the bar was so high they couldn't make it.
Now, you need massive financial backing for these things which I believe was no object. And its paid off in spades.
The problem Wexford, and many other counties have, is they don't have that financial clout to pay for this in my view. Players and county board needing to fundraise and run events to raise money which raises small enough money truth be told I would bet.
Long story short, I think unless Wexford can find backing to invest massively in underage coaching, development squads, coaches, I think we are miles away. Someone above talked about schools. If I was Wexford GAA, I'd be getting a full time coach or two into the schools in Enniscorthy, Gorey and Bunclody and get them to move between the schools a couple of days a week with a view to getting these schools playing A level hurling.
Spending money at adult level is a fools errand if there isn't a conveyor belt of players up to the standard." There's no doubt that having a sort of JP McManus figure investing big money into Wexford hurling would make a big difference in the medium to longer-term, if that money was used wisely.
However, in Wexford, there'd still be complaints. If somebody said they wanted to invest €1 million in Wexford hurling, certain people would immediately ask "and what about football?"
It's happening to a smaller degree already. A few people have indicated a willingness to put good money (but not JP McManus amounts of money!) into Wexford hurling, or are already doing so. But for everything that's done with this money, there are complaints of "why can't football have the same?"
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2962 - 27/07/2023 11:05:41
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Replying To Viking66: "Was fitness an issue? As in mental fatigue not physical. What was said at halftime in those games?
Inconsistency isn't a recent problem. It's beset Wexford hurling all millennium." You're right.
The physical part is easy if you have a good plan and are disciplined.
The importance of a top psychologist is our number 1 priority.
We didn't have one this year, and the players requested it in their presentation to the county board.
Niamh Fitzpatrick was arguably the most important part of 96. We were way ahead then, but abandoned it for some bizarre reason.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3790 - 27/07/2023 11:07:23
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Any updates on the interviewing process on for a new manager. All very quiet. I was hoping we would have management in place for at least quarter finals but seems unlikely
Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 27/07/2023 12:43:14
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Replying To Afinestick: "Any updates on the interviewing process on for a new manager. All very quiet. I was hoping we would have management in place for at least quarter finals but seems unlikely" I'm really not sure. I've heard rumours but nothing that I'd post.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16457 - 27/07/2023 13:33:46
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Replying To Pikeman96: "There's no doubt that having a sort of JP McManus figure investing big money into Wexford hurling would make a big difference in the medium to longer-term, if that money was used wisely.
However, in Wexford, there'd still be complaints. If somebody said they wanted to invest €1 million in Wexford hurling, certain people would immediately ask "and what about football?"
It's happening to a smaller degree already. A few people have indicated a willingness to put good money (but not JP McManus amounts of money!) into Wexford hurling, or are already doing so. But for everything that's done with this money, there are complaints of "why can't football have the same?"" JP invests money in to Limerick GAA, not just one code.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1526 - 27/07/2023 13:56:43
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In fairness to Jp did he not give money to every club in Ireland when limerick won the all Ireland in 2018
Wexfordmorg (Wexford) - Posts: 12 - 27/07/2023 14:23:50
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Replying To tearintom: " Replying To Pikeman96: "There's no doubt that having a sort of JP McManus figure investing big money into Wexford hurling would make a big difference in the medium to longer-term, if that money was used wisely.
However, in Wexford, there'd still be complaints. If somebody said they wanted to invest €1 million in Wexford hurling, certain people would immediately ask "and what about football?"
It's happening to a smaller degree already. A few people have indicated a willingness to put good money (but not JP McManus amounts of money!) into Wexford hurling, or are already doing so. But for everything that's done with this money, there are complaints of "why can't football have the same?"" JP invests money in to Limerick GAA, not just one code."
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2962 - 27/07/2023 14:48:36
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