National Forum

Wexford Intercounty Hurling 2023

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Replying To WildPundit:  "Once they have money Davy will be back again for a second stint!!
Jokes aside as good as Davy was with Wexford I still don't think they would have won an all Ireland under him. They have fallen well back into the pack under Egan but again they were not far off Dublin who are their benchmark for next year and I don't see them losing to the likes of Carlow next season or even Antrim. I expect they will find some players over the winter and target the likes of the 3 aforementioned teams to get back out of Leinster. A good league run under a new manager will set them up nicely but they do need to unearth and find a few players to build a panel capable of competing with Galway and Kilkenny again.
I do feel they need someone from Wexford in the backroom team as manager or head selector. Someone who knows the county scene and potential players as I'm sure there are many but they haven't been found for whatever season."
Issue is that Egan did have who would be "considered" the best from Wexford in his back room team as coaches/selectors in Neil Loughlin who's been involved in numerous club teams in Wexford and Willie Cleary who is/was highly thought of and knows the club scene inside out. Looking back at last 5 county finals - 6 different teams were involved. (Naomh Eanna - Willie Cleary who was involved last year), Annes (Doc & Co), Shel's (Parker with Martin Byrne)
Fern's (Bennett), Martins (Bear), Rapp's (Skippy but main driving force was O'Loughlin who was involved last year.) Even going back bit further to great Oulart team it was Cork man Frank Flannery that got them over line.

Can't understand all this talk of Skippy being an option - zero pedigree really? Unlike Kilkenny who have ex players like Herity, Brennan, Henry etc who have gone and got Senior/ County experience elsewhere we have none with exception of Malachy Travers who was over Boden for a while. JJ also involved under Davy. So all these calls for a Wexford man who'll set the heather blazing are fine but realistically who is this man?

grassroots01 (Wexford) - Posts: 182 - 20/07/2023 10:01:13    2495749

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Replying To grassroots01:  "Issue is that Egan did have who would be "considered" the best from Wexford in his back room team as coaches/selectors in Neil Loughlin who's been involved in numerous club teams in Wexford and Willie Cleary who is/was highly thought of and knows the club scene inside out. Looking back at last 5 county finals - 6 different teams were involved. (Naomh Eanna - Willie Cleary who was involved last year), Annes (Doc & Co), Shel's (Parker with Martin Byrne)
Fern's (Bennett), Martins (Bear), Rapp's (Skippy but main driving force was O'Loughlin who was involved last year.) Even going back bit further to great Oulart team it was Cork man Frank Flannery that got them over line.

Can't understand all this talk of Skippy being an option - zero pedigree really? Unlike Kilkenny who have ex players like Herity, Brennan, Henry etc who have gone and got Senior/ County experience elsewhere we have none with exception of Malachy Travers who was over Boden for a while. JJ also involved under Davy. So all these calls for a Wexford man who'll set the heather blazing are fine but realistically who is this man?"
Yep its a valid point.

I mean back in the day many on here didnt consider JJ Doyle to be worthy of a chance or good enough and in reality who else is there thats done as much?

Now im not saying JJ is the answer, think that boat has sailed but if his credentials as a Wexford an werent considered good enough who else is there?

Joe Fortune in terms of "being from Wexford" is probably as good as it gets, Skippy was manager but as you say O Loughlin was the driving force there, even Oulart have had outside men like Shane O brien for example last year.

There arent many standout candidates internally in all honesty, Rossiter is doing a decent job with the u21's but if JJ wasnt good enough with his success is Rossiter yet?

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1515 - 20/07/2023 10:36:41    2495760

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Replying To ElGranSenor:  "My understanding of Declan Ruth's suspension was that there was more to it than just the social media outburst.

And on a different note, Wexford went away from what they did best in the 2019 All-Ireland Semi-Final because we had nothing off the bench. It's hard enough to sustain a running game at that level of intensity/quality for 50 minutes with the same 15 players, pretty much impossibile to do it with the same 15 players across 70+ minutes."
That was what I thought at the time and still think now. There were lads out on their feet but the lads on the bench had little or no real gametime to get up to intercounty speed and intensity.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16163 - 20/07/2023 10:40:27    2495762

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Replying To tearintom:  "Yep its a valid point.

I mean back in the day many on here didnt consider JJ Doyle to be worthy of a chance or good enough and in reality who else is there thats done as much?

Now im not saying JJ is the answer, think that boat has sailed but if his credentials as a Wexford an werent considered good enough who else is there?

Joe Fortune in terms of "being from Wexford" is probably as good as it gets, Skippy was manager but as you say O Loughlin was the driving force there, even Oulart have had outside men like Shane O brien for example last year.

There arent many standout candidates internally in all honesty, Rossiter is doing a decent job with the u21's but if JJ wasnt good enough with his success is Rossiter yet?"
Rossiter hasn't won anything yet. Lyng won an u20 AI before he got promoted.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16163 - 20/07/2023 10:42:21    2495763

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I think it's great that we are finally looking at getting real Wexford men involved, though it has to be the right one. Throwing money at outsiders ego really don't care about our hurling infrastructure or past or future is just a short term fix and apart from Davy we have seen little or no success. Skippy has only won one title in management and needs to be part of it rather than running it.

Of the Wexford people mentioned Joe Fortune is THE stand out candidate having won some minor, U21 Leinsters with Dublin, club championships with Ballyboden (Was Travers with him?) and Westmeath have won a National League title with him and drawn and beaten us at Senior level. That is with Westmeath lads. They went to Joe Mc this year but against Antrim who also nearly beat us !!

I saw his management first hand with my own young lad and not only on the pitch but off it. He takes no ***** and would be the exact voice needed to galvanise this group and bring the young players forward. Our county chairman needs to forget the words he had with him in a bust up last year and do what's right now. I've spoken to senior players also who rate him very highly though do think he is a bit mad :-) Give him a three year term with Skippy, JJ Rossiter (over 20s too) or similar and move forward.
Past players like Herity (he relegated Kildare to Christy Ring this year again) have won less then this man and Eddie Brennan lost to Westmeath with KK and his interview alone with Parkinson shared the type of person he can be.

I find this forum a real insight into a lot of passionate Wexford people. All candidates have a few blemishes on their belts but genuinely feel Fortune is the best one. Big question is has he committed to Westmeath next year already.

96andproud (Wexford) - Posts: 34 - 20/07/2023 11:33:25    2495776

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Replying To 96andproud:  "I think it's great that we are finally looking at getting real Wexford men involved, though it has to be the right one. Throwing money at outsiders ego really don't care about our hurling infrastructure or past or future is just a short term fix and apart from Davy we have seen little or no success. Skippy has only won one title in management and needs to be part of it rather than running it.

Of the Wexford people mentioned Joe Fortune is THE stand out candidate having won some minor, U21 Leinsters with Dublin, club championships with Ballyboden (Was Travers with him?) and Westmeath have won a National League title with him and drawn and beaten us at Senior level. That is with Westmeath lads. They went to Joe Mc this year but against Antrim who also nearly beat us !!

I saw his management first hand with my own young lad and not only on the pitch but off it. He takes no ***** and would be the exact voice needed to galvanise this group and bring the young players forward. Our county chairman needs to forget the words he had with him in a bust up last year and do what's right now. I've spoken to senior players also who rate him very highly though do think he is a bit mad :-) Give him a three year term with Skippy, JJ Rossiter (over 20s too) or similar and move forward.
Past players like Herity (he relegated Kildare to Christy Ring this year again) have won less then this man and Eddie Brennan lost to Westmeath with KK and his interview alone with Parkinson shared the type of person he can be.

I find this forum a real insight into a lot of passionate Wexford people. All candidates have a few blemishes on their belts but genuinely feel Fortune is the best one. Big question is has he committed to Westmeath next year already."
From westmeath point of view, feel he's gone. Got us relegated and never made any real progress. Antrim hammered us. The wexford match was a freak result. View here is he wasn't been offered extension

Onionbagger (Westmeath) - Posts: 101 - 20/07/2023 12:25:51    2495787

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Replying To 96andproud:  "I think it's great that we are finally looking at getting real Wexford men involved, though it has to be the right one. Throwing money at outsiders ego really don't care about our hurling infrastructure or past or future is just a short term fix and apart from Davy we have seen little or no success. Skippy has only won one title in management and needs to be part of it rather than running it.

Of the Wexford people mentioned Joe Fortune is THE stand out candidate having won some minor, U21 Leinsters with Dublin, club championships with Ballyboden (Was Travers with him?) and Westmeath have won a National League title with him and drawn and beaten us at Senior level. That is with Westmeath lads. They went to Joe Mc this year but against Antrim who also nearly beat us !!

I saw his management first hand with my own young lad and not only on the pitch but off it. He takes no ***** and would be the exact voice needed to galvanise this group and bring the young players forward. Our county chairman needs to forget the words he had with him in a bust up last year and do what's right now. I've spoken to senior players also who rate him very highly though do think he is a bit mad :-) Give him a three year term with Skippy, JJ Rossiter (over 20s too) or similar and move forward.
Past players like Herity (he relegated Kildare to Christy Ring this year again) have won less then this man and Eddie Brennan lost to Westmeath with KK and his interview alone with Parkinson shared the type of person he can be.

I find this forum a real insight into a lot of passionate Wexford people. All candidates have a few blemishes on their belts but genuinely feel Fortune is the best one. Big question is has he committed to Westmeath next year already."
You make a good case for Fortune there to be fair.

Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 20/07/2023 12:32:43    2495790

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Replying To Onionbagger:  "From westmeath point of view, feel he's gone. Got us relegated and never made any real progress. Antrim hammered us. The wexford match was a freak result. View here is he wasn't been offered extension"
From an outside point of view do Westmeath have the players to compete in Division 1 and Liam McCarthy Cup. With all due respect to Westmeath I dont think they do

Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 20/07/2023 13:06:28    2495796

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Replying To Onionbagger:  "From westmeath point of view, feel he's gone. Got us relegated and never made any real progress. Antrim hammered us. The wexford match was a freak result. View here is he wasn't been offered extension"
Ye stayed in Div 1 for the first time ever was it not and beat us for the first time since 1930s. Freak result? Sure ye drew last year. We would take a few freak results here so. He has done more than anyone else recommended. Missing lots of players this year too as were we. I'd bet my mortgage and yours Westmeath will offer an extension based on that alone but if not best of luck going forward. Westmeath a very proud county in both codes.

96andproud (Wexford) - Posts: 34 - 20/07/2023 13:10:42    2495799

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "In general on the Davy era, I'd say I can offer a somewhat neutral view. Wexford won 3 x U21 Leinster titles leading up to that, and that team stood up and became the men they were and have become.
To me, winning 1 Leinster was moderate enough success wise, in particular when you think that in the other years Wexford were abject and roundly beaten by Clare twice?
What Davy did most for Wexford hurling was engage the support, which is badly lacking now. Although come to think of it, there was not huge support in Cork that year v Cork also."
I think those 3 x U21s were overblown really. For starters obviously Galway weren't in Leinster underage comps then. Post Leinster, there was an unbelievable loss to an Antrim team, Clare subsequently beat them by 22 points in the final. 2014, 6 point defeat to Clare. 2015, a dire 16 point defeat to Limerick. Definitely talented players emerged from those teams but don't think it was an exceptional crop either. With the new u20 format I think the more games (and Galway now in Leinster) are much better from a player development perspective.

To be fair to Davy, I thought we were a shambles really under Liam Dunne, the odd result aside. There was a shameful surrender v KK in KK in I think his last season. Also, those covid championships, the first one particularly was more of a winter blitz. Davy has lots of flaws, an ego maniac for starters, but the team were competitive under him. Under Egan, we were diabolical two years in a row v Westmeath!

Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 424 - 20/07/2023 13:28:24    2495806

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Replying To 96andproud:  "Ye stayed in Div 1 for the first time ever was it not and beat us for the first time since 1930s. Freak result? Sure ye drew last year. We would take a few freak results here so. He has done more than anyone else recommended. Missing lots of players this year too as were we. I'd bet my mortgage and yours Westmeath will offer an extension based on that alone but if not best of luck going forward. Westmeath a very proud county in both codes."
Think they beat us in the 40s but I could be wrong. When you consider the players he was missing, and the fact he left some very good u20s with the u20s to give the u20s their best chance of success, I think Fortune did a decent enough job with Westmeath. He kept Westmeath in div 1 of the NHL which was no mean feat, although relegation back to a dog eat dog Joe Mac was a bitter pill to swallow after the result in Wexford Park.
He's teaching in Malahide so presumably lives somewhere North of Dublin so he would have a long enough commute down.
Would he be better than Pat Hoban for example? He has Senior intercounty experience which Toban has not, although Hoban won an AI and narrowly missed out on another with a Kilkenny minor team that didn't have many star names. Hoban also apparently lives in Wexford according to a poster on this thread. Hoban also won a club AI last year. Hoban has top level, as in AI, success which Fortune hasn't. Only thing about Hoban is he would presumably be without his longtime coach Jimmy Meagher.
I still think Tom Mulally would be the best choice but obviously he probably isn't available.
I suppose I'd be happy enough with Fortune or Toban, they seem to be the best, as in most experienced and successful, options out of those names the rumour mill has thrown up.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16163 - 20/07/2023 13:49:56    2495812

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Replying To Viking66:  "Think they beat us in the 40s but I could be wrong. When you consider the players he was missing, and the fact he left some very good u20s with the u20s to give the u20s their best chance of success, I think Fortune did a decent enough job with Westmeath. He kept Westmeath in div 1 of the NHL which was no mean feat, although relegation back to a dog eat dog Joe Mac was a bitter pill to swallow after the result in Wexford Park.
He's teaching in Malahide so presumably lives somewhere North of Dublin so he would have a long enough commute down.
Would he be better than Pat Hoban for example? He has Senior intercounty experience which Toban has not, although Hoban won an AI and narrowly missed out on another with a Kilkenny minor team that didn't have many star names. Hoban also apparently lives in Wexford according to a poster on this thread. Hoban also won a club AI last year. Hoban has top level, as in AI, success which Fortune hasn't. Only thing about Hoban is he would presumably be without his longtime coach Jimmy Meagher.
I still think Tom Mulally would be the best choice but obviously he probably isn't available.
I suppose I'd be happy enough with Fortune or Toban, they seem to be the best, as in most experienced and successful, options out of those names the rumour mill has thrown up."
Stupid predictive text kept putting Toban in instead of Hoban. And just to put into context how successful Hobans spell as Kilkenny minor manager was, Eddie Brennans Kilkenny u21 team got knocked out by Westmeath in 2016 with many of the same players, although he did win Leinster the year after but no AI.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16163 - 20/07/2023 14:44:19    2495828

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As regards a new manager, I'd give Keith Rossiter a go but give him a 3 year term with a remit to build a new team.
It's a young man's game and Rossiter knows last years u-20's batch and this years u-20's batch.
The 3 years will give him time to bring through a host of young lads that will form the main part of the panel for 2025-2030.
There's a lot of very good hurlers at this age in the last 2 years and there's more coming in the pipeline.

Punter72007 (Wexford) - Posts: 318 - 20/07/2023 15:37:57    2495839

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Replying To Punter72007:  "As regards a new manager, I'd give Keith Rossiter a go but give him a 3 year term with a remit to build a new team.
It's a young man's game and Rossiter knows last years u-20's batch and this years u-20's batch.
The 3 years will give him time to bring through a host of young lads that will form the main part of the panel for 2025-2030.
There's a lot of very good hurlers at this age in the last 2 years and there's more coming in the pipeline."
I have nothing but respect for Keith Rossiter - he was a super hurler but have people forgotten that we left a Leinster U20 hurling final behind us this year playing against 14 men for guts of 40 mins .. A lot of that game was lost on the line

MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 192 - 20/07/2023 15:54:40    2495843

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Replying To Punter72007:  "As regards a new manager, I'd give Keith Rossiter a go but give him a 3 year term with a remit to build a new team.
It's a young man's game and Rossiter knows last years u-20's batch and this years u-20's batch.
The 3 years will give him time to bring through a host of young lads that will form the main part of the panel for 2025-2030.
There's a lot of very good hurlers at this age in the last 2 years and there's more coming in the pipeline."
We had good u20 teams the last 2 years. I went to nearly all their games. But at the same time you are asking alot to expect these lads to be playing, and more importantly competing at, senior in 2 years time. The lads were good without being exceptional. We didn't even win a Leinster. Let alone beat Munster teams in AI finals. And, more worryingly, possibly the best 2 players from those 2 teams, Cian Molloy and AJ Redmond, don't seem to want to hurl Senior intercounty.
Having said all that it's very important to bring the best of these lads into the Senior set up next year, so they can get used to Senior intercounty training, S and C, speed, size of opponents and the required intensity, sooner rather than later. If that had been done in 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 we might not be where we are now. For example the improvement in Tucker Kinsella from last year to this is very apparent in his performances for his club.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16163 - 20/07/2023 17:00:29    2495855

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Replying To MyOhMi:  "I have nothing but respect for Keith Rossiter - he was a super hurler but have people forgotten that we left a Leinster U20 hurling final behind us this year playing against 14 men for guts of 40 mins .. A lot of that game was lost on the line"
I think Keith Rossiter should get 2 more years with the u20s to gain more experience. If he wins an AI like Lyng did he should certainly be given the Senior job next time it comes up.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16163 - 20/07/2023 17:02:05    2495856

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Replying To MyOhMi:  "I have nothing but respect for Keith Rossiter - he was a super hurler but have people forgotten that we left a Leinster U20 hurling final behind us this year playing against 14 men for guts of 40 mins .. A lot of that game was lost on the line"
I would say it was 15 mins and not 40 mins . It was definitely into the second half. But I take agree it was dissapointing we failed to adapt with the spare man

Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 20/07/2023 17:11:30    2495859

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Replying To Viking66:  "I think Keith Rossiter should get 2 more years with the u20s to gain more experience. If he wins an AI like Lyng did he should certainly be given the Senior job next time it comes up."
Keith Rossitor was in Davy's backroom for 5 years and was manager of 20s in two Leinster finals. He has enough experience and is Wexford through and through. If he has the right backroom then he's surely the standout.

wexfordwin (Wexford) - Posts: 191 - 20/07/2023 19:57:15    2495897

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Replying To Timbertony:  "I think those 3 x U21s were overblown really. For starters obviously Galway weren't in Leinster underage comps then. Post Leinster, there was an unbelievable loss to an Antrim team, Clare subsequently beat them by 22 points in the final. 2014, 6 point defeat to Clare. 2015, a dire 16 point defeat to Limerick. Definitely talented players emerged from those teams but don't think it was an exceptional crop either. With the new u20 format I think the more games (and Galway now in Leinster) are much better from a player development perspective.

To be fair to Davy, I thought we were a shambles really under Liam Dunne, the odd result aside. There was a shameful surrender v KK in KK in I think his last season. Also, those covid championships, the first one particularly was more of a winter blitz. Davy has lots of flaws, an ego maniac for starters, but the team were competitive under him. Under Egan, we were diabolical two years in a row v Westmeath!"
I think that's a bit harsh on Dunne, his 1st 3 years 2012-14 we made alot of progress year on year but his last 2 years were very disappointing alright bar a surprise win over Cork in the qualifiers, Davy 5 years were similar in that we made alot of progress in the 1st 3 years in terms of being competitive like you said and obviously winning Leinster, listening to a few of recently retired players they reckon they were running on fumes in that winter championship in 2020 after playing club championships in both codes prior and by all accounts the fitness markers the players reached during lockdowns etc. were insane we got that year badly wrong, 2021 I'd see as the biggest missed opportunity of a Leinster title we've had in the last 20 years, our game against Kilkenny that year was arguably the highest standard of match we've been involved in over the last decade.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 21/07/2023 00:58:19    2495913

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Replying To wexfordwin:  "Keith Rossitor was in Davy's backroom for 5 years and was manager of 20s in two Leinster finals. He has enough experience and is Wexford through and through. If he has the right backroom then he's surely the standout."
He is definitely Wexford through and through. There's no doubting that. But the fact remains he's won nothing as a manager at any level. He could do well for sure in the future. And hopefully he does as he comes across as a nice fella. But I still think its too soon for him. And if things don't go well for him it could mess up his future managerial career.
Has he applied for the job even? Does anyone know who definitely has applied for it?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16163 - 21/07/2023 10:44:21    2495941

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