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Wexford Intercounty Hurling 2023

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Replying To Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin:  "Egan must get on well enough with the players for them to back him like they've done. But they also backed Davy a lot after 19 and he didn't really work out after that peak. Sometimes a cold eye might be the best to guide them. I've no doubts he's a nice fella and he's by all accounts a good coach but I don't know if management is his best role at intercounty. I don't know do the wexford players get comfy too easily and that's why they don't want change or maybe don't want to fight for a place under someone new again etc....all these could be well off the mark but maybe sometimes players might be blind to all that. The senior managers job is obviously the big job in town and all that but I hope all the issues that were flagged at all levels last year will also be addressed. I did say how some of our clubs at underage and development panels are a good bit behind other counties, I seen Rapps took an awful beating off Athenry in feile (galway clubs fairly dominating feile atm and they did win it out so no shame) but thy also took a heavy beating off the Westmeath champions, which without be dismissive to a county who've beaten us and drawn with us at senior level but wouldn't have some pick or number of hurlers especially v a big town teams with good tradition. So while I think senior managers position is huge I still want the coaching and player development not to get lost again. Also can't wait for hurling champioship to start (quick and all as it may be, but that's another debate)"
A couple of things TTMHWS. The players haven't said they want Egan to stay. They said he should be given the chance to make a case for himself and they would like to see what changes he will make to make things better.
Secondly why the assumption that because we get beaten at underage by a club from county with a smaller pick of players we are regressing? The middle tier counties are largely so because they have less clubs to pick from, especially Senior ones. Not because their Senior clubs are any worse, and definitely not because an underage team from any of their top clubs would be any worse. Its that kind of arrogant assumption that's really not helping us, as people then assume we dont have to put the work in to get better or stay better than these counties. And never mind underage, our Senior club hurling champions have lost to Laois, Offaly and Carlow clubs in the recent past. In fact Offaly clubs have a far better all time record in the AI club championships than our clubs.
Reading into underage results is pretty pointless even within our own county. Any club could have a particularly good crop of players in any given year. Taghmon were only a Junior club when the u14s won the Premier titles in both hurling and football around 10 years ago. Beating the Martins in both of those finals.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16100 - 29/06/2023 10:24:24    2490567

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Replying To Timbertony:  "Think too much is being made of the Wexford crowd that showed up that night in Carlow. Yes it was very disappointing but it was mistakes on the field that cost us that night. Lots of supporters are fickle in every sport in this country. The kids call it FOMO! The senior team has been on the slide since 2019 so it's no surprise the support has dropped off with it."
That's a bit hard. We were very close to a Leinster title in 2021, losing in extra time to Kilkenny before they beat a seriously depleted Dublin in the final. We were also better than Clare for 3/4 of our game against them that year.
And if we had of had more fans in Semple last year we might very well have held on for a win and a crack at Kilkenny, who we had already beaten well in a must win game for both sides in Nowlan Park, in an AISF.
I know there's a lot of What ifs in the above, but to say we have been on the slide since 2019 is a bit strong. And our lack of support has definitely contributed to our lack of success both at Senior and u20.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16100 - 29/06/2023 10:31:25    2490570

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Replying To Viking66:  "A couple of things TTMHWS. The players haven't said they want Egan to stay. They said he should be given the chance to make a case for himself and they would like to see what changes he will make to make things better.
Secondly why the assumption that because we get beaten at underage by a club from county with a smaller pick of players we are regressing? The middle tier counties are largely so because they have less clubs to pick from, especially Senior ones. Not because their Senior clubs are any worse, and definitely not because an underage team from any of their top clubs would be any worse. Its that kind of arrogant assumption that's really not helping us, as people then assume we dont have to put the work in to get better or stay better than these counties. And never mind underage, our Senior club hurling champions have lost to Laois, Offaly and Carlow clubs in the recent past. In fact Offaly clubs have a far better all time record in the AI club championships than our clubs.
Reading into underage results is pretty pointless even within our own county. Any club could have a particularly good crop of players in any given year. Taghmon were only a Junior club when the u14s won the Premier titles in both hurling and football around 10 years ago. Beating the Martins in both of those finals."
Junior in hurling club that should read. Senior in football but relegated that year to Intermediate

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16100 - 29/06/2023 11:43:02    2490593

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On the thing about Rapps losing to a Westmeath club in Féile - an important point is that Westmeath only has about 14 hurling clubs, and not all of them play underage. But it has close to 40 football clubs.

It means that an underage hurling club in Westmeath would be drawing from an area that might normally include four or five clubs if most of their clubs were dual, like they are here. A rough equivalent might be if the Rapps got to draw from the Rathnure, Cloughbawn and Ferns areas as well.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2900 - 29/06/2023 12:56:23    2490615

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "On the thing about Rapps losing to a Westmeath club in Féile - an important point is that Westmeath only has about 14 hurling clubs, and not all of them play underage. But it has close to 40 football clubs.

It means that an underage hurling club in Westmeath would be drawing from an area that might normally include four or five clubs if most of their clubs were dual, like they are here. A rough equivalent might be if the Rapps got to draw from the Rathnure, Cloughbawn and Ferns areas as well."
I actually made a mistake in calling Raheny a Westmeath club, it was actually Dublin club, got them confused with a Westmeath hurling club with a similar name. Looked into it more cus didn't want to spreading false results. But it was still dissapointing to see Wexford county champions taking heavy beatings in all their games....especially since it was a very fancied team, I know it's only u15 but still never want to see Wexford teams well beaten. Just concerned that our club standards aren't great standard across the board from senior down. Competitive at those young ages mightnt make you a great intercounty senior team (definitely makes it easier) but helps the club game a whole lot down th line. I always felt the last 20 years or so that while our good lads were as good as any in the country, that the average club hurler in Wexford is a good bit poorer than the average club hurler in Kilkenny, Tipp, Cork, Galway or even Clare or Limerick (counties we bracket ourselves with a lot) I know some might blame football for holing back that development but I dont (that Athenry team that won the feile all Ireland are back playing in the football all Ireland this weekend again)....I always end up going an awful long winded answers but what can ya do

Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin (Wexford) - Posts: 332 - 29/06/2023 14:17:44    2490640

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Replying To Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin:  "I actually made a mistake in calling Raheny a Westmeath club, it was actually Dublin club, got them confused with a Westmeath hurling club with a similar name. Looked into it more cus didn't want to spreading false results. But it was still dissapointing to see Wexford county champions taking heavy beatings in all their games....especially since it was a very fancied team, I know it's only u15 but still never want to see Wexford teams well beaten. Just concerned that our club standards aren't great standard across the board from senior down. Competitive at those young ages mightnt make you a great intercounty senior team (definitely makes it easier) but helps the club game a whole lot down th line. I always felt the last 20 years or so that while our good lads were as good as any in the country, that the average club hurler in Wexford is a good bit poorer than the average club hurler in Kilkenny, Tipp, Cork, Galway or even Clare or Limerick (counties we bracket ourselves with a lot) I know some might blame football for holing back that development but I dont (that Athenry team that won the feile all Ireland are back playing in the football all Ireland this weekend again)....I always end up going an awful long winded answers but what can ya do"
Me too! All good points and I agree with them. But the reality is alot of clubs in Wexford only have hurling training once a week for one hour at underage, and that just isn't enough to compete with other clubs in other counties who train twice a week in hurling.
Athenry must have a good crop at that age group this year, but is it the same every year? I'm not being smart I'd just like to know. Also how do they structure their training from u10 upwards? Is it football 1 week then hurling the next like we do, or do they have separate hurling and football panels? What is the crossover between the 2 teams? Most clubs down here the best lads are the best lads in both hurling and football, and in a particularly good year you might have 7 or 8 of these, but more usually there might be 3 or 4. Obviously clubs like Harriers, Gorey, Castletown, Horeswood, Shels, Barntown and Oulart actually have so many young lads they put out 2 teams in u12 hurling this year, while Gorey, Castletown, Shels, Horeswood and Barntown have 2 u12 football panels also . Interestingly as Rapps/Starlights were used as an example they only field 1 team at u12 in football and hurling, and not even in div1 they are in div2 in football and hurling at u12.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16100 - 29/06/2023 14:42:30    2490653

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Replying To Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin:  "I actually made a mistake in calling Raheny a Westmeath club, it was actually Dublin club, got them confused with a Westmeath hurling club with a similar name. Looked into it more cus didn't want to spreading false results. But it was still dissapointing to see Wexford county champions taking heavy beatings in all their games....especially since it was a very fancied team, I know it's only u15 but still never want to see Wexford teams well beaten. Just concerned that our club standards aren't great standard across the board from senior down. Competitive at those young ages mightnt make you a great intercounty senior team (definitely makes it easier) but helps the club game a whole lot down th line. I always felt the last 20 years or so that while our good lads were as good as any in the country, that the average club hurler in Wexford is a good bit poorer than the average club hurler in Kilkenny, Tipp, Cork, Galway or even Clare or Limerick (counties we bracket ourselves with a lot) I know some might blame football for holing back that development but I dont (that Athenry team that won the feile all Ireland are back playing in the football all Ireland this weekend again)....I always end up going an awful long winded answers but what can ya do"
Me too! All good points and I agree with them. But the reality is alot of clubs in Wexford only have hurling training once a week for one hour at underage, and that just isn't enough to compete with other clubs in other counties who train twice a week in hurling.
Athenry must have a good crop at that age group this year, but is it the same every year? I'm not being smart I'd just like to know. Also how do they structure their training from u10 upwards? Is it football 1 week then hurling the next like we do, or do they have separate hurling and football panels? What is the crossover between the 2 teams? Most clubs down here the best lads are the best lads in both hurling and football, and in a particularly good year you might have 7 or 8 of these, but more usually there might be 3 or 4. Obviously clubs like Harriers, Gorey, Castletown, Horeswood, Shels, Barntown and Oulart actually have so many young lads they put out 2 teams in u12 hurling this year, while Gorey, Castletown, Shels, Horeswood and Barntown have 2 u12 football panels also . Interestingly as Rapps/Starlights were used as an example they only field 1 team at u12 in football and hurling, and not even in div1 they are in div2 in football and hurling at u12.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16100 - 29/06/2023 14:42:38    2490654

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Replying To Viking66:  "Me too! All good points and I agree with them. But the reality is alot of clubs in Wexford only have hurling training once a week for one hour at underage, and that just isn't enough to compete with other clubs in other counties who train twice a week in hurling.
Athenry must have a good crop at that age group this year, but is it the same every year? I'm not being smart I'd just like to know. Also how do they structure their training from u10 upwards? Is it football 1 week then hurling the next like we do, or do they have separate hurling and football panels? What is the crossover between the 2 teams? Most clubs down here the best lads are the best lads in both hurling and football, and in a particularly good year you might have 7 or 8 of these, but more usually there might be 3 or 4. Obviously clubs like Harriers, Gorey, Castletown, Horeswood, Shels, Barntown and Oulart actually have so many young lads they put out 2 teams in u12 hurling this year, while Gorey, Castletown, Shels, Horeswood and Barntown have 2 u12 football panels also . Interestingly as Rapps/Starlights were used as an example they only field 1 team at u12 in football and hurling, and not even in div1 they are in div2 in football and hurling at u12."
They've been in feile finals in both the last 5 or so years so it's more the norm than not lately. Winning both in the one year was very impressive given they beat Corofin in football and Oranmore in hurling (another club very strong in both) Think its become a lot more dual in galway the last decade or so and they seem to be managing it well, not fully sure how. See how many play adult level in both but they seem to be extremely high level of both. Even Turloughmore won a couple feile hurling all Ireland's and then majority of those lads won a football feile all Ireland with Claregalway as well, the minor all Ireland winning football captain from galway actually won the feile hurling player of the tournament couple years previous. Don't know how they or some of the Cork clubs are very strong in both at extremely high levels at underage, like anything just takes hard work and organising, probably a bit easier when theres strong chance of success in both and one doesnt look down on the other, traditionally very skilfull counties too and huge, so maybe bar the big town clubsin Wexford witu nunbers they wouldnt be best example..but then again they've different issues in nearly having too many good players coming through and not developing them at senior so i suppose every county has problems but I'd still prefer to have their issues in a way of not getting over the line in finals etc. Maybe looking at Clare is the best example, been a very good football county for over a decade now with Hurling being no.1 and loosing some of their best lads to hurling, a huge chunk of them are dual too and doesn't seem to effect their skill or development, similar history and playing population on both to us as well, they must be doing something right.

Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin (Wexford) - Posts: 332 - 29/06/2023 15:10:27    2490668

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Replying To Viking66:  "That's a bit hard. We were very close to a Leinster title in 2021, losing in extra time to Kilkenny before they beat a seriously depleted Dublin in the final. We were also better than Clare for 3/4 of our game against them that year.
And if we had of had more fans in Semple last year we might very well have held on for a win and a crack at Kilkenny, who we had already beaten well in a must win game for both sides in Nowlan Park, in an AISF.
I know there's a lot of What ifs in the above, but to say we have been on the slide since 2019 is a bit strong. And our lack of support has definitely contributed to our lack of success both at Senior and u20."
Since 1996 in championship what is our record v Munster teams?

hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 29/06/2023 15:24:59    2490674

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Replying To hurlorhurley:  "Since 1996 in championship what is our record v Munster teams?"
Fairly pathetic. Not sure the exact stats but I'd be surprised if we have even won 20% of our games against Munster counties.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16100 - 29/06/2023 15:57:59    2490684

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Replying To hurlorhurley:  "Since 1996 in championship what is our record v Munster teams?"
Beaten Waterford twice 2003/2014, Clare 2014, Limerick 2001, Tipperary 2007 and Cork 2015. 6 wins in 27 years is a wretched record

Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 29/06/2023 16:02:28    2490687

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Replying To hurlorhurley:  "Since 1996 in championship what is our record v Munster teams?"
Good question, and here's the answer:
Won 7. Drew 3. Lost 23.

The wins include last year's victory over Kerry, and the losses include the defeat to Clare in the relegation semi-final of 2009 (the year that the relegation final never happened because of how Antrim had been guaranteed at least three years in Leinster, and therefore couldn't be relegated).

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2900 - 29/06/2023 16:04:54    2490688

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "You must remember the pain they caused us. It's an important fixture. The real leinster rivalry.

That being said, it cannot be allowed to define a season.

We were much the better side in nowlan Park last year too.

For me it doesn't excuse the season. I could live with the league, but the level of inconsistency is intolerable.

We were in the Galway game until we let them o a scoring run for 10 minutes which remained the margin to the end. Forgivable.

Excellent in the first half vs Antrim. Faded later on. Forgivable.

Never got going in a game we did everything to lose vs Dublin. Unforgivable.

Excellent in the first half vs Westmeath. Surrendered a 17 point lead and the wheels came off. Unforgiveable.

On a personal level, I like the man.

For the good of wexford hurling we need a change. Who? Anyone from the senior club scene to be honest about it."
Totally Agree on reflection the last few weeks it is best Egan left. I cant see him turning around things. The lack of available appropriate candidates could be a blessing for him though. Hopefully its resolved in the next week . We need our management team out looking at the club games

Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 29/06/2023 16:06:20    2490690

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Good question, and here's the answer:
Won 7. Drew 3. Lost 23.

The wins include last year's victory over Kerry, and the losses include the defeat to Clare in the relegation semi-final of 2009 (the year that the relegation final never happened because of how Antrim had been guaranteed at least three years in Leinster, and therefore couldn't be relegated)."
Feck it I got W6 D3 L22. I must've missed a loss and I didn't include Kerry! Pretty poor record all the same. Though not as bad as the 28 years preceding 1996. Where we lost 100% of our games against Munster teams and there were only 3 of those since 1968. In the light of these stats over such a long period of time why do we Wexford supporters have such high expectations?!!!!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16100 - 29/06/2023 16:28:23    2490694

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "You must remember the pain they caused us. It's an important fixture. The real leinster rivalry.

That being said, it cannot be allowed to define a season.

We were much the better side in nowlan Park last year too.

For me it doesn't excuse the season. I could live with the league, but the level of inconsistency is intolerable.

We were in the Galway game until we let them o a scoring run for 10 minutes which remained the margin to the end. Forgivable.

Excellent in the first half vs Antrim. Faded later on. Forgivable.

Never got going in a game we did everything to lose vs Dublin. Unforgivable.

Excellent in the first half vs Westmeath. Surrendered a 17 point lead and the wheels came off. Unforgiveable.

On a personal level, I like the man.

For the good of wexford hurling we need a change. Who? Anyone from the senior club scene to be honest about it."
I get that it is a Leinster rivalry and of course it matters more than any other.
But is expectation in Wexford not that they should be competitive with Kilkenny and Galway and beating them as often as not and should be beating everybody else in Leinster?
Like, Dublin felt no fear of Wexford this year or last and the general view is that Wexford can be got at, are flaky and can be got at.
I wondered about Darragh Egan (typo yesterday too many Darraghs/Daire's/Dara's in my life) credentials from day 1, can somebody give me an overview of what his CV was? I think he was a selector with Liam Sheedy, yeah, and he managed Kildangan to a county title. Right? Is there more to it?
To me, that CV is inferior to Pat Bennett, Declan Ruth to name but 2, unless there is a gaping hole I don't know about?

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1365 - 30/06/2023 11:45:12    2490820

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "I get that it is a Leinster rivalry and of course it matters more than any other.
But is expectation in Wexford not that they should be competitive with Kilkenny and Galway and beating them as often as not and should be beating everybody else in Leinster?
Like, Dublin felt no fear of Wexford this year or last and the general view is that Wexford can be got at, are flaky and can be got at.
I wondered about Darragh Egan (typo yesterday too many Darraghs/Daire's/Dara's in my life) credentials from day 1, can somebody give me an overview of what his CV was? I think he was a selector with Liam Sheedy, yeah, and he managed Kildangan to a county title. Right? Is there more to it?
To me, that CV is inferior to Pat Bennett, Declan Ruth to name but 2, unless there is a gaping hole I don't know about?"
Agree his CV at intercounty level is non existent really. I'd say Sheedy probably gave him a huge endorsement and that swung it for him. Also there weren't too many other candidates being talked about that time. Many of us flagged this up when his name 1st came up.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16100 - 30/06/2023 12:35:34    2490831

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Replying To Viking66:  "Agree his CV at intercounty level is non existent really. I'd say Sheedy probably gave him a huge endorsement and that swung it for him. Also there weren't too many other candidates being talked about that time. Many of us flagged this up when his name 1st came up."
The only other candidate under consideration at the time of Egan's appointment was Jason Ryan, the former football manager who'd been involved in club hurling for a few years at that point. All the other names that you usually here thrown about (e.g. Derek McGrath, Eddie Brennan, etc.) had either ruled themselves out or were never under serious consideration in the first place.

So either way, it was going to be somebody without any senior inter-county hurling management experience. And I'd say the fact that Egan had at least been involved in an All-Ireland victory and came with a good reference from Liam Sheedy is what swung it for him.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2900 - 30/06/2023 12:54:57    2490835

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "The only other candidate under consideration at the time of Egan's appointment was Jason Ryan, the former football manager who'd been involved in club hurling for a few years at that point. All the other names that you usually here thrown about (e.g. Derek McGrath, Eddie Brennan, etc.) had either ruled themselves out or were never under serious consideration in the first place.

So either way, it was going to be somebody without any senior inter-county hurling management experience. And I'd say the fact that Egan had at least been involved in an All-Ireland victory and came with a good reference from Liam Sheedy is what swung it for him."
Was Joe Fortune not the other name under consideration at that stage?

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1514 - 30/06/2023 14:51:01    2490863

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Why would Wexford take Liam Sheedy's word? If Rory Jacob was going for a job would they be asking Keith Rossiter what he thought of him as part of the u20 setup?

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1365 - 30/06/2023 15:03:15    2490864

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "The only other candidate under consideration at the time of Egan's appointment was Jason Ryan, the former football manager who'd been involved in club hurling for a few years at that point. All the other names that you usually here thrown about (e.g. Derek McGrath, Eddie Brennan, etc.) had either ruled themselves out or were never under serious consideration in the first place.

So either way, it was going to be somebody without any senior inter-county hurling management experience. And I'd say the fact that Egan had at least been involved in an All-Ireland victory and came with a good reference from Liam Sheedy is what swung it for him."
As we suspected at the time there wasn't a huge queue looking for the job!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16100 - 30/06/2023 15:11:34    2490867

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