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2021 Hurling Championship

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Replying To katser: "Another great win for Galway Minors v KK...that's 5 years in a row we have beaten them lol!!! The drive for 5 is on....Galway going for 5 All Ireland Minor titles in a row!!" Welcome back Katser. We missed you! johnocarroll17 (Limerick) - Posts: 408 - 14/08/2021 14:30:25 2370737 Link
Replying To katser: "Another great win for Galway Minors v KK...that's 5 years in a row we have beaten them lol!!! The drive for 5 is on....Galway going for 5 All Ireland Minor titles in a row!!" Yeah. Hell of a streak. I hope they can beat Cork. Hon the Tribe!!! Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2551 - 14/08/2021 16:05:40 2370801 Link
Replying To StoreysTash: "So its a victory for fair play if inconclusive video evidence overrules an official who told the referee what he saw? To me, that is not a victory for fair play. If there had been clear cut video evidence here, then of course it should be used. It should have been "beyond reasonable doubt" that nothing happened. But GAA authorities never back the men in black, do they, and who knows what has gone on behind the scenes........" I have stated else where I am glad Casey gets to play. Number one I did not know that the appeals had access to the sound bites between the ref and the other officials. However some thing is wrong here. It is public knowledge in this case what the conversation amounted to. Does that only apply when the appeal is successful ? I have not heard the results of a failed appeal conversation out in public. Did Waterford have the sound bites from the Gleeson red card (deserved) ? Maybe they did. Are they available from a half time decide red cards ? If it is now common place to have the conversation of officials shared when an appeal is successful then I would like to know the contents of the conversation of Gleeson's red card. This irrespective whether Waterford made an appeal or not. Who I believe are weak over and over when it comes to these incidents and never interested in laying out the facts to their supporters. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3111 - 14/08/2021 19:34:28 2370926 Link
Replying To katser: "Another great win for Galway Minors v KK...that's 5 years in a row we have beaten them lol!!! The drive for 5 is on....Galway going for 5 All Ireland Minor titles in a row!!" Galway regularly produce fantastic minor hurling teams with great skill and ability,hopefully they can transfer this success to the senior team. ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 14/08/2021 21:52:25 2371152 Link
Replying To Canuck: "I have stated else where I am glad Casey gets to play. Number one I did not know that the appeals had access to the sound bites between the ref and the other officials. However some thing is wrong here. It is public knowledge in this case what the conversation amounted to. Does that only apply when the appeal is successful ? I have not heard the results of a failed appeal conversation out in public. Did Waterford have the sound bites from the Gleeson red card (deserved) ? Maybe they did. Are they available from a half time decide red cards ? If it is now common place to have the conversation of officials shared when an appeal is successful then I would like to know the contents of the conversation of Gleeson's red card. This irrespective whether Waterford made an appeal or not. Who I believe are weak over and over when it comes to these incidents and never interested in laying out the facts to their supporters." Yes, Canuck, that was news to me too. I'm happy that Casey can play in the final as I've never seen him do anything untoward on the pitch. However, the whole process does raise some questions as regards the discussions between the referee and his officials. There is, of course, another anomaly in this area. A successful appeal against a red card effectively means the committee is over-ruling the referee's decision. Should this not work both ways? If a referee issues a yellow card when all evidence points to a red, should that referee's decision not also be subject to review? I recall a Tipperary Under 21 player (Coughlan, I think) getting a yellow card in the All-Ireland semi-final of 2001 but it was subsequently upgraded to a red card and he missed the final. A different system now applies, of course. If the ref issues a yellow card nowadays that's the end of it, the explanation being that the referee has already adjudicated on the matter. So we have an inconsistency whereby John Keenan's decision was overturned but, for example, Paud O'Dwyer's decision in relation to Aaron Gillane could not be questioned. The system that applied ten years ago may not have been perfect but in some respects maybe it was more balanced. midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 614 - 14/08/2021 21:53:28 2371153 Link
Replying To carlowman: "I watched the game. I was surprised to see Casey get the red but I also admired the referee for having the bravery to give a red on the evidence he received from his diligent officials. Too often our officials have not followed through on the advice given. To be honest my mind wandered as to why the Limerick player reacted as he did, and when the replays were being played I was saddened at what the video showed... the Waterford player giving Casey the hurl into his body and then falling down unceremoniously after the slightest of contact. Reflecting on the whole escapade, are we expecting too much from our players... that they should turn a blind eye to provocation? When a player intentionally needles a player to react - what do our rules and expectations expect from our officials... is there any sanction we can offer to lessen the opportunities for such provocation? We could easily become distracted from the real issue of provocation and focus on the response and look for blood, and social.media is full of.auch venom, but what should be done to ensure that our players are not provoked into the future... I would suggest that penalties for such negative behaviour should result in a separate category which woikd result in a red card and a 3 match suspension. We can put our heads in the sand and say agh it happened in my time, as.if we can't do anything and accept the status quo or we can try to sort it. I think I would go with the latter. How many times have we all said, 'don't mind that lad' as a response to a player needling a player.. Time to sort this out and be brave and move the game on." Great post,you are so right! ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 14/08/2021 22:14:59 2371184 Link
Replying To Canuck: "I have stated else where I am glad Casey gets to play. Number one I did not know that the appeals had access to the sound bites between the ref and the other officials. However some thing is wrong here. It is public knowledge in this case what the conversation amounted to. Does that only apply when the appeal is successful ? I have not heard the results of a failed appeal conversation out in public. Did Waterford have the sound bites from the Gleeson red card (deserved) ? Maybe they did. Are they available from a half time decide red cards ? If it is now common place to have the conversation of officials shared when an appeal is successful then I would like to know the contents of the conversation of Gleeson's red card. This irrespective whether Waterford made an appeal or not. Who I believe are weak over and over when it comes to these incidents and never interested in laying out the facts to their supporters." Derek mcgrath always stated his biggest regret in his time with Waterford was nor appealing that red card. The overturning of caseys red card was extra video evidence and the mistake by keenan to not take the input of the linesman who is an inter County ref and had a much better and closer view of the incident whos recommendation was 2 yellow cards. I think retrospective upgrading of yellow cards to reds should be considered with caution. We se all the time with slow motion things can look very bad when at times its just timing issues on the player who commits the foul. But in the case of gillane v tipp a retrospective red would have been the right punishment. Its a very tricky one to just fall straight into. Really should tread carefully. daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 14/08/2021 22:16:51 2371185 Link
Replying To daveboy: "Derek mcgrath always stated his biggest regret in his time with Waterford was nor appealing that red card. The overturning of caseys red card was extra video evidence and the mistake by keenan to not take the input of the linesman who is an inter County ref and had a much better and closer view of the incident whos recommendation was 2 yellow cards. I think retrospective upgrading of yellow cards to reds should be considered with caution. We se all the time with slow motion things can look very bad when at times its just timing issues on the player who commits the foul. But in the case of gillane v tipp a retrospective red would have been the right punishment. Its a very tricky one to just fall straight into. Really should tread carefully." I agree red cards should be always reviewed on the field and let the officials in charge make the final call with no appeals allowed. Why do I say that. The danger of interference or pressure or influence after the fact is a real concern. I am not accusing anyone of any thing but there has been some strange decisions. Some inconsistence decision with all sorts of explanations to justify. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3111 - 15/08/2021 01:27:35 2371302 Link
Replying To Canuck: "I agree red cards should be always reviewed on the field and let the officials in charge make the final call with no appeals allowed. Why do I say that. The danger of interference or pressure or influence after the fact is a real concern. I am not accusing anyone of any thing but there has been some strange decisions. Some inconsistence decision with all sorts of explanations to justify." The reason that the appeals process is a very important one is because in caseys incident the referee didn't take the advise of all his officials as its been explained he forgot to consult the linesman in the heat of the moment. Is it perhaps time for on field video assistance on a big screen? One challenge per team per match? daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 15/08/2021 09:13:43 2371340 Link
The pitchside monitor made available to the ref would be a fairly easy development. He could stop the clock and review the incident . There is no need for a third official or video referee like in VAR. For me each team should have 2 challenges where they can ask the onfield ref to review an incident on the monitor. Its up to the teams to call the challenge. Say with 1 min to decide. No VAR...no video ref.. just a monitor pitch side. bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 15/08/2021 11:55:09 2371417 Link
Replying To daveboy: "Derek mcgrath always stated his biggest regret in his time with Waterford was nor appealing that red card. The overturning of caseys red card was extra video evidence and the mistake by keenan to not take the input of the linesman who is an inter County ref and had a much better and closer view of the incident whos recommendation was 2 yellow cards. I think retrospective upgrading of yellow cards to reds should be considered with caution. We se all the time with slow motion things can look very bad when at times its just timing issues on the player who commits the foul. But in the case of gillane v tipp a retrospective red would have been the right punishment. Its a very tricky one to just fall straight into. Really should tread carefully." Agree with you. It is important for natural justice that players have a right of appeal. So important that GAA has the authority and power to review yellow cards and also have the power to upgrade to Red. This needs to be adopted as policy and be an accepted part of of the process. Agree fully that onfield action is often mistimed efforts from players and unintentional. The speed of players, poor positioning or following the ball can leave a ref not knowing what happened or his officials either. It would seem then that some onfield review by officials would be the apparatus to include where video evidence is possible. It is right that correct decisions are.made. that should be the priority. carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1881 - 15/08/2021 18:30:07 2371620 Link
It would be better if the right decision was made on the field to avoid influencing the game. In probable 90% of red cards we the viewers could make a call in 20 seconds let alone a trained official. It was also reported Waterford would get one of the Gleesons off but not both. Derek decide which one and probably has a conscious about it. If true what does that tell you about the appeal system ? What kind of justice is that ? It tells me that the appeal system can be influenced or manipulated or possible appeals to the ref afterwards. There has been questionable turnovers and questionable non. They are red cards or not. The ones I have referenced are examples. Austin Gleeson clearly pulled off the helmet and should have not been playing in the 2017 final. Conor Gleeson gave a minor flick back (not like what he did to Joe) in retaliation to a butt end in the ribs. His should have been yellow and he should have played in the 2017 final. Tadgh DeBurca should have played in the semi final as he never pulled anyone's helmet off that day, before that day or ever. The player admitted afterwards that was the case but how did that appeal go ? The video evidence was inconclusive but the decision on the field was upheld. Don't you think that plus Kehoe admitting his strap was open and Tadgh solo running up the side line with the ball should have got him off. Personally I would have no confidence in the appeals. What happens on the field is in the public eye. What happens in these appeals is not. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3111 - 15/08/2021 19:58:06 2371672 Link
The audio transcript of the incident shows the referee consulting with the linesman firstly who didn't fully see the incident, he then spoke to his umpires, one of whom is very clear that there was a headbutt by a Limerick player, the RTE footage clearly backs this view, apparently the referee erred in not consulting again with linesman after umpire spoke to him. I've no idea why this is seen as an error as he had no need to consult again. The umpire saw what everyone neutral saw, a clear headbutt, interestingly Casey himself just walked off, he knew what had happened. Rescinding of the referee's decision is simply wrong here, fair minded supporters know what happened. Limerick want the rules bent to their needs, Gillane, Flanagan, Hegarty, Condon all guilty in recent years, now Casey. Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 2206 - 16/08/2021 00:00:00 2371785 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "The audio transcript of the incident shows the referee consulting with the linesman firstly who didn't fully see the incident, he then spoke to his umpires, one of whom is very clear that there was a headbutt by a Limerick player, the RTE footage clearly backs this view, apparently the referee erred in not consulting again with linesman after umpire spoke to him. I've no idea why this is seen as an error as he had no need to consult again. The umpire saw what everyone neutral saw, a clear headbutt, interestingly Casey himself just walked off, he knew what had happened. Rescinding of the referee's decision is simply wrong here, fair minded supporters know what happened. Limerick want the rules bent to their needs, Gillane, Flanagan, Hegarty, Condon all guilty in recent years, now Casey." Incorrect. You've your opinion on it here and it's not fair minded and you're very much in the huge minority. Nearly every pundit ex players ex referees have all said the right decision has been made on the matter in time. You are entitled to your opinion however. Moving on looking forward to a novel AI final with all the best players available. Been a great year so far hopefully we'll see a great final with 2 very tough sporting teams and a top class ref. daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 16/08/2021 10:03:11 2371850 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "The audio transcript of the incident shows the referee consulting with the linesman firstly who didn't fully see the incident, he then spoke to his umpires, one of whom is very clear that there was a headbutt by a Limerick player, the RTE footage clearly backs this view, apparently the referee erred in not consulting again with linesman after umpire spoke to him. I've no idea why this is seen as an error as he had no need to consult again. The umpire saw what everyone neutral saw, a clear headbutt, interestingly Casey himself just walked off, he knew what had happened. Rescinding of the referee's decision is simply wrong here, fair minded supporters know what happened. Limerick want the rules bent to their needs, Gillane, Flanagan, Hegarty, Condon all guilty in recent years, now Casey." Get over it,don't let it haunt you like that,theres a game on the weekend! ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 16/08/2021 10:48:17 2371879 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "The audio transcript of the incident shows the referee consulting with the linesman firstly who didn't fully see the incident, he then spoke to his umpires, one of whom is very clear that there was a headbutt by a Limerick player, the RTE footage clearly backs this view, apparently the referee erred in not consulting again with linesman after umpire spoke to him. I've no idea why this is seen as an error as he had no need to consult again. The umpire saw what everyone neutral saw, a clear headbutt, interestingly Casey himself just walked off, he knew what had happened. Rescinding of the referee's decision is simply wrong here, fair minded supporters know what happened. Limerick want the rules bent to their needs, Gillane, Flanagan, Hegarty, Condon all guilty in recent years, now Casey." I do think that Limerick must have uncovered new video evidence also. But I was very surprised how Casey just took the red card and walked off without much complaining. I know when canning was wrongly dismissed in a club game last year he was very animated and arguing with the officials, video evidence showed that he was 100% correct and should not have been sent off. The red he got was rescinded under video evidence. I don't think it was an intentional headbutt but I do find it strange how he never complained when he received the red , when people are accused of doing something they did not do they rairly take it well! I would go crazy if I was accused of headbutting ! ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 272 - 16/08/2021 11:36:44 2371900 Link
Replying To ecad123: "I do think that Limerick must have uncovered new video evidence also. But I was very surprised how Casey just took the red card and walked off without much complaining. I know when canning was wrongly dismissed in a club game last year he was very animated and arguing with the officials, video evidence showed that he was 100% correct and should not have been sent off. The red he got was rescinded under video evidence. I don't think it was an intentional headbutt but I do find it strange how he never complained when he received the red , when people are accused of doing something they did not do they rairly take it well! I would go crazy if I was accused of headbutting !" Fair enough. But surely time to move on Shocs07 (Limerick) - Posts: 374 - 16/08/2021 12:24:20 2371930 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "The audio transcript of the incident shows the referee consulting with the linesman firstly who didn't fully see the incident, he then spoke to his umpires, one of whom is very clear that there was a headbutt by a Limerick player, the RTE footage clearly backs this view, apparently the referee erred in not consulting again with linesman after umpire spoke to him. I've no idea why this is seen as an error as he had no need to consult again. The umpire saw what everyone neutral saw, a clear headbutt, interestingly Casey himself just walked off, he knew what had happened. Rescinding of the referee's decision is simply wrong here, fair minded supporters know what happened. Limerick want the rules bent to their needs, Gillane, Flanagan, Hegarty, Condon all guilty in recent years, now Casey." You're probably better off talking about Westmeath hurling I'd say. Don't be stressing over us Shocs07 (Limerick) - Posts: 374 - 16/08/2021 12:26:24 2371932 Link
Replying To ecad123: "I do think that Limerick must have uncovered new video evidence also. But I was very surprised how Casey just took the red card and walked off without much complaining. I know when canning was wrongly dismissed in a club game last year he was very animated and arguing with the officials, video evidence showed that he was 100% correct and should not have been sent off. The red he got was rescinded under video evidence. I don't think it was an intentional headbutt but I do find it strange how he never complained when he received the red , when people are accused of doing something they did not do they rairly take it well! I would go crazy if I was accused of headbutting !" Might have been in complete disbelief also.. Not everyone's reaction will be the same. I thought he looked shocked to be honest.. skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 1111 - 16/08/2021 12:42:04 2371941 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "The audio transcript of the incident shows the referee consulting with the linesman firstly who didn't fully see the incident, he then spoke to his umpires, one of whom is very clear that there was a headbutt by a Limerick player, the RTE footage clearly backs this view, apparently the referee erred in not consulting again with linesman after umpire spoke to him. I've no idea why this is seen as an error as he had no need to consult again. The umpire saw what everyone neutral saw, a clear headbutt, interestingly Casey himself just walked off, he knew what had happened. Rescinding of the referee's decision is simply wrong here, fair minded supporters know what happened. Limerick want the rules bent to their needs, Gillane, Flanagan, Hegarty, Condon all guilty in recent years, now Casey." You really are triggered by this?? Big bad Limerick bullying everyone on and off the pitch so there's 0 % possibility that Casey might have been innocent and on review it was a wrong decision. Anyway thankfully he's free to play so suck it up and get over it. skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 1111 - 16/08/2021 12:48:26 2371942 Link