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Four Teams Representing Dublin Geographic Area!

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In summary there seems to be substantial consensus that the present structure for competing in the AI football championship is massively flawed and not working and is not meeting the requirements of supporters or players and teams taking part.
We can leave well enough alone and hope eventually it will get better but continuing to do the same thing and expect a different outcome is reckless and foolish.

There may be several ways of addressing the issue.I would be interested to know what proposals other posters and readers may have on the matter.Perhaps even something with the bare bones and other posters could build on it.Anything would be better than the troll like utterances by posters trying to rack up posts in their thousands but I suppose whatever gets ones rocks of!!!!

The first thing is for Croke Park to set up a Football Development Committee as they did for both codes back around 1995 and invited submissions from interested parties including ordinary gaa people.My submission back then was a proposal to have tiered gaelic football competitions which never saw the light of day.The gaa by its nature is slow to move and change and I respect that.But over 20 years later the problem has got a lot worse and all that was done and achieved was tinkering around the edges with the football back door...no in depth development .

Just as I'm on the subject my hurling proposal was for tiered competitions as was the case with many submissions and thinking at the time.I also proposed a Munster and Leinster hurling championship close to what we have since 2018 with two differences,more matches in both competitions with each team playing each other twice...home and away....more competitive games which patrons and players want and greater use of grounds/stadia.The other difference was that the Leinster and Munster hurling championships would be a separate entity to the AI hurling championship.
Both the Munster and Leinster teams would be put in a hat and two groups drawn to play each other on a home and away basis.A lot of matches I know but dispensing with the League would make up for this.

On the trolls I feel sorry for those people sitting behind their computers,many with no social skills just spewing empty rhetoric.I realize that there are also posters that are appalled with change and change can be fearful for many.
Several years ago when I suggested a red card for interfering with a hurlers helmet as it was a health and safety issue many hackles were raised on this very site but it happened and it was totally correct and necessary.

I would like to thank all those genuine posters for their submissions and reiterate that its not an anti Dublin proposal and I believe most people including Dublin supporters accept that it is a genuine proposal.It will be interesting to see in 20 years time if anything has changed for the better.

PS. I would love to see a genuine proposal to make gaelic football ..the game...more attractive and bring back the foot in FOOTball.

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 12/12/2020 23:09:09    2321730

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "I would be of the opinion that you do the Kerry Senior championship model.

Abandon the league and have two championships
county championship based on existing council structures: Dublin in 4, Cork in two, Galway in two, Belfast on its own
That would have 40 teams: 10 Ulster, 6 Connacht, 7 Munster, 15 Leinster, New York and London.

Counties would play for the following
8 - Senior County
Kerry, Monaghan, Tyrone, Donegal, Roscommon, Armagh, Galway County, Fingal

16 Intermediate,
Mayo, Meath, Kildare, Cork, Tipp, Cavan, Down, Wicklow, Limerick, Tipp, Offaly, Clare, Westmeath, Derry, Down, Cavan

16 Junior
London, New York, Belfast City, Cork City, Dublin City, Dun Laoghaire Rathdown, South Dublin, Galway City, Sligo, Leitrim, Waterford, Louth, Carlow, Wexford, Antrim, Kilkenny

Then you have 16 entering the All Ireland Championship -
8 Senior Counties
and 8 regional teams
Dublin County - Dublin City, Dun Laoghaire Rathdown, South Dublin
North Leinster - Meath, Louth, Westmeath, Longford,
South Leinster - Kildare, Laois, Wicklow, Wexford,
West Ulster - Derry, Fermanagh, Cavan
East Ulster - Down, Antrim, Belfast City
Ormond- Offaly, Tipperary, Carlow, Kilkenny
Munster - Cork, Cork City, Waterford, Limerick, Clare
Connacht - Leitrim, Sligo, Galway City, Mayo"
Definitely abandon the league and have two championships,one tiered and the other fully comprised of teams that would be competitive and evenly matched.

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 12/12/2020 23:16:36    2321732

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "Looks like many Dublin posters, Croke Park and the media have already merged their heads with their ar*es. They are in total denial constantly looking up that tunnel of darkness."
I'm sorry but this type of post serves no purpose,I do understand your frustration with the present structure though.

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 12/12/2020 23:18:34    2321733

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "Definitely abandon the league and have two championships,one tiered and the other fully comprised of teams that would be competitive and evenly matched."
Why do we need to abandon the League? Provincials are the only thing which should be abandoned.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 746 - 13/12/2020 11:48:40    2321828

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Why do we need to abandon the League? Provincials are the only thing which should be abandoned."
Abandon the league to allow for the increased number of games in the two proposed competitions,how would you accommodate the league in whats proposed?

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 13/12/2020 12:02:52    2321832

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "Abandon the league to allow for the increased number of games in the two proposed competitions,how would you accommodate the league in whats proposed?"
The League isn't going anywhere. It's a popular competition and not one of the proposals posted on this thread are realistic.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 746 - 13/12/2020 12:40:11    2321844

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You could probably just about keep the league and the provincials.

7 weeks for league, 4 for provincials and 6 for the All Ireland just about fits into the window that inter county is likely to have.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4609 - 13/12/2020 12:59:09    2321849

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "The League isn't going anywhere. It's a popular competition and not one of the proposals posted on this thread are realistic."
Sure we will just keep plodding along watching Dublin win the all Ireland while the best sports personnel in Dublin go to Rugby or Soccer because they can either have multiple teams to join or join another teams somewhere else.

In the GAA we say NO to everything that might allow a progressive discussion or allow everyone compete on an even basis.

The gist of the arguments around here are a follows:

No splitting Dublin

(1) let's continue to limit a population of 1.3m people to a maximum of 26 inter county players - this is simply unfair to those based in Dublin who wish to play at an elite level
(2) let's limit a population of 1.3m to a max of 35,000 people at an all Ireland final

No sharing of resources

(1) let's use the resources from 1.3m people to fund 1 team only and pretend that it's fair
(2) let's play the majority of matches in Dublin and not cover the travel expenses of the teams forced to play there, which punishes them financially and let's pretend that it's fair
(3) let's pretend it's a united organisation and then let each unit (that isn't named Dublin) of the organisation fend for itself financially
(4) let's pump funding generated by all counties into a central fund which distributes funding to Dublin at 10 times the rate as everyone else and pretend that it's fair
(5) let's build a national stadium and national training facility in Dublin and nowhere else, thus eliminating the need for Dublin to put any of their own money into such infrastructure and let's not provide any others with free infrastructure

Existing Competitions

(1) Let's pretend that the provincial championships are worth something even though they just keep the jackboot of tradition firmly on the neck of the weaker counties
(2) let's pretend that a set of competitions which gives the bigger counties an 8-9 month season but ends the season for 16 counties after 6 months is fair
(3) let's pretend that giving a strong county an extra 3 month period of high performance training every year over that which is given to a weaker county is somehow fair
(4) let's pretend that the weaker counties can get to the level of the stronger counties by just playing each other in a B completion that no one will give a shit about


Time for a lot of people in the GAA to cop themselves on

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1521 - 13/12/2020 15:24:11    2321908

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "Sure we will just keep plodding along watching Dublin win the all Ireland while the best sports personnel in Dublin go to Rugby or Soccer because they can either have multiple teams to join or join another teams somewhere else.

In the GAA we say NO to everything that might allow a progressive discussion or allow everyone compete on an even basis.

The gist of the arguments around here are a follows:

No splitting Dublin

(1) let's continue to limit a population of 1.3m people to a maximum of 26 inter county players - this is simply unfair to those based in Dublin who wish to play at an elite level
(2) let's limit a population of 1.3m to a max of 35,000 people at an all Ireland final

No sharing of resources

(1) let's use the resources from 1.3m people to fund 1 team only and pretend that it's fair
(2) let's play the majority of matches in Dublin and not cover the travel expenses of the teams forced to play there, which punishes them financially and let's pretend that it's fair
(3) let's pretend it's a united organisation and then let each unit (that isn't named Dublin) of the organisation fend for itself financially
(4) let's pump funding generated by all counties into a central fund which distributes funding to Dublin at 10 times the rate as everyone else and pretend that it's fair
(5) let's build a national stadium and national training facility in Dublin and nowhere else, thus eliminating the need for Dublin to put any of their own money into such infrastructure and let's not provide any others with free infrastructure

Existing Competitions

(1) Let's pretend that the provincial championships are worth something even though they just keep the jackboot of tradition firmly on the neck of the weaker counties
(2) let's pretend that a set of competitions which gives the bigger counties an 8-9 month season but ends the season for 16 counties after 6 months is fair
(3) let's pretend that giving a strong county an extra 3 month period of high performance training every year over that which is given to a weaker county is somehow fair
(4) let's pretend that the weaker counties can get to the level of the stronger counties by just playing each other in a B completion that no one will give a shit about


Time for a lot of people in the GAA to cop themselves on"
Yes. I do think we should ignore calls for splitting Dublin.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 746 - 13/12/2020 15:48:52    2321917

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "Sure we will just keep plodding along watching Dublin win the all Ireland while the best sports personnel in Dublin go to Rugby or Soccer because they can either have multiple teams to join or join another teams somewhere else.

In the GAA we say NO to everything that might allow a progressive discussion or allow everyone compete on an even basis.

The gist of the arguments around here are a follows:

No splitting Dublin

(1) let's continue to limit a population of 1.3m people to a maximum of 26 inter county players - this is simply unfair to those based in Dublin who wish to play at an elite level
(2) let's limit a population of 1.3m to a max of 35,000 people at an all Ireland final

No sharing of resources

(1) let's use the resources from 1.3m people to fund 1 team only and pretend that it's fair
(2) let's play the majority of matches in Dublin and not cover the travel expenses of the teams forced to play there, which punishes them financially and let's pretend that it's fair
(3) let's pretend it's a united organisation and then let each unit (that isn't named Dublin) of the organisation fend for itself financially
(4) let's pump funding generated by all counties into a central fund which distributes funding to Dublin at 10 times the rate as everyone else and pretend that it's fair
(5) let's build a national stadium and national training facility in Dublin and nowhere else, thus eliminating the need for Dublin to put any of their own money into such infrastructure and let's not provide any others with free infrastructure

Existing Competitions

(1) Let's pretend that the provincial championships are worth something even though they just keep the jackboot of tradition firmly on the neck of the weaker counties
(2) let's pretend that a set of competitions which gives the bigger counties an 8-9 month season but ends the season for 16 counties after 6 months is fair
(3) let's pretend that giving a strong county an extra 3 month period of high performance training every year over that which is given to a weaker county is somehow fair
(4) let's pretend that the weaker counties can get to the level of the stronger counties by just playing each other in a B completion that no one will give a shit about


Time for a lot of people in the GAA to cop themselves on"
You make some telling comments there on the futility of the existing competitions,I have to agree with you.The problem is a lot of people have a fear of change including the GAA hierarchy.What have they done since the Football Development Committee reported around 1996/7,they introduced the back door in 2001 and left it at that until the super 8s.Does this seem like an organization that wants equal opportunity for all players and teams.They know that they could and should have done a lot better since 2001 to encourage more meaningful competition and not allow it to become so lopsided an unfair.Is there any respect for the so called lesser teams?...seems not.

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 13/12/2020 21:41:28    2322154

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "You make some telling comments there on the futility of the existing competitions,I have to agree with you.The problem is a lot of people have a fear of change including the GAA hierarchy.What have they done since the Football Development Committee reported around 1996/7,they introduced the back door in 2001 and left it at that until the super 8s.Does this seem like an organization that wants equal opportunity for all players and teams.They know that they could and should have done a lot better since 2001 to encourage more meaningful competition and not allow it to become so lopsided an unfair.Is there any respect for the so called lesser teams?...seems not."
The GAA would argue however that the respect for these lesser teams is lacking among the ordinary fans as much as the administrators.
If, say, Leitrim were playing an important hurling match today my bet is that most Leitrim hurling fans would still be more interested in the all Ireland.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 13/12/2020 22:43:53    2322170

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Any more ideas on making the AI football championship more competitive and inclusive so that players in all counties can be represented and can expect a reasonable chance of success.
The gaa is a unique and wonderful organization but is it too steeped in tradition regarding Co teams and county boundaries?

Should consultants be employed to look at the organization,how its competitions are run and the representative structures and how they can be improved upon and made more equal and fair?

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 15/12/2020 19:20:33    2322705

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Resources and competitiveness aside, I do think there'd be a fair bit of needle in a Southside v Northside match. I lived in Dublin for 2 decades, and, as they say, "different station, different nation".

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 15/12/2020 19:29:27    2322714

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Replying To essmac:  "Resources and competitiveness aside, I do think there'd be a fair bit of needle in a Southside v Northside match. I lived in Dublin for 2 decades, and, as they say, "different station, different nation"."
Can we realistically expect anything constructively and imaginative to happen in the next ten years?

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 15/12/2020 20:15:35    2322727

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Replying To essmac:  "Resources and competitiveness aside, I do think there'd be a fair bit of needle in a Southside v Northside match. I lived in Dublin for 2 decades, and, as they say, "different station, different nation"."
Nonsense not in GAA anyway , maybe you need another 20 years living in Dublin -:)

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2850 - 15/12/2020 22:16:39    2322769

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Such rubbish. It was rubbish when splitting them in two and just laughable to split them in 4.
If the argument is being made you cant just say Dublin have a million people to pick from. You cant include the 2 guys from my club in Tipp for example, nor can you include the high number of foreigners who work in Dublin who would know nothing about Gaelic games.
If the argument is being made then it needs to be done properly, but I still disagree with it. If you put the Dublin team on Sunday on paper right beside Goochs Kerry team or Trevor Giles' Meath team can you say theyre streets ahead of those teams? They certainly aren't. A top class team no doubt but the other teams are at a low ebb the same way everyone was when KK dominated and Limerick currently appear to be dominating also.

Like Limerick, Dublin are the ultimate team but not exactly individually comparable to the great Kilkenny hurling team. Is the team below full of real stars - probably not but they have more than most. They are a brilliantly trained team tho but not unbeatable if anyone else was anywhere near what they were. For example Tyrone and Mayo are a million miles off their best of recent times. Its a myth to say Dublin are getting stronger because there has deintely been stronger Dublin teams in recent years - and their bench has also been actually stronger I'd argue.

Stephen Cluxton (Parnells)
2. Mick Fitzsimons (Cuala)
3. Jonny Cooper (Na Fianna)
4. Eoin Murchan (Na Fianna)

5. James McCarthy (Ballymun Kickhams)
6. John Small (Ballymun Kickhams)
7. Robbie McDaid (Ballyboden St Endas)

8. Brian Fenton (Raheny)
9. Tom Lahiff (St Jude's)

12. Sean Bugler (St Oliver Plunketts/ER)
11. Ciarán Kilkenny (Castleknock)
10. Niall Scully (Templeogue Synge Street)

13. Paddy Small (Ballymun Kickhams)
14. Con O'Callaghan (Cuala)
15. Dean Rock (Ballymun Kickhams)

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 16/12/2020 00:10:02    2322788

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Replying To essmac:  "Resources and competitiveness aside, I do think there'd be a fair bit of needle in a Southside v Northside match. I lived in Dublin for 2 decades, and, as they say, "different station, different nation"."
From my experience in Dublin and I live in the North side there is a little bit of slagging between northside/southside but not too bad. A little bit like the townie and rural teams in the country but there s much more needle between the local clubs that are near each e.g.Ballymun Na Fianna.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 4026 - 16/12/2020 08:55:20    2322799

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There are a lot great insights that I saw here and it seems the consensus is that there should be something that should be fixed within the system. I know that there will be a lot of gaps in the football leagues but if there is change that should happen, they need to happen. There will be a lot of issues but it seems that having more changes will be the best thing that can occur here.

KaitlynnDuff (Longford) - Posts: 17 - 17/12/2020 13:31:09    2323134

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Replying To KaitlynnDuff:  "There are a lot great insights that I saw here and it seems the consensus is that there should be something that should be fixed within the system. I know that there will be a lot of gaps in the football leagues but if there is change that should happen, they need to happen. There will be a lot of issues but it seems that having more changes will be the best thing that can occur here."
Most fair-minded people realize that the AI football competition is just not working in its present form.Some posters are of the view that giving less money to Dublin and more cash for the weaker counties will sort the problem.The problem is that since its inception teams representing their counties have been playing in a competition which was unequal and unfair from the off.For far too long too many people have ignored this inequality.The Dublin situation with an unequal Leinster championship has highlighted the shortcomings countrywide.Every young player in every county should have an equal opportunity to play in a team that has an equal and fair chance of being seriously competitive and indeed winning that competition.Surely that should be the watchword of the gaa.It will take time and people with courage and a lot of soul searching and many changes and upheavels but it will surely be worth it when eventually it happens and it has to happen.

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 18/12/2020 00:17:44    2323322

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There is a lot of airing of the problem/s with the AI football competition but not much being proffered by way of a solution.This link illustrates the point.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/1223/1186166-is-splitting-dublin-the-answer-to-leinsters-woes/

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 02/01/2021 13:11:33    2325781

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