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Four Teams Representing Dublin Geographic Area!

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Replying To Kurt_Angle:  "More needs to be done to foster the GAA in DLR

What would you suggest? Most clubs in the area are quite new (Ballinteer - 1982, Cuala - 1974, N. Olaf - 1981, Kilmacud Crokes - 1966, Fox-Cab - 2005) suggesting there's a significant amount of GAA growth in the area in the past generation. In terms of participation, KC has circa 4,800 members, Cuala has 1,600, Fox Cab has 500 which seems pretty good to me and has risen exponentially over the past couple of decades. The clubs are very much accessible to surrounding areas so there's not really much scope for new clubs. In terms of success, Cuala and KC have won All-Ireland's in the recent past while Fox-Cab has contested a couple of recent AI finals, which is a fair level of achievement at senior level.

Given that DLR has strong soccer and rugby playing numbers, I'd say the GAA in the area has done well to grow so much in recent times. In spite of this, I still feel that, given the modest enough pick from clubs, a DLR representative side would be weak enough in the whole scheme of intercounty football and hurling and making DLR into a "county" for such purposes would be counterproductive."
Not a bad Football side.. back 6 with M Fitzsimons, Rory O'Carroll, David Byrne and Cian O'Sullivan. Then Con O'Callaghan, Paul Mannion and McGowan in the forwards

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4655 - 08/12/2020 15:49:54    2320289

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If there is an appetite to retain the provincials then they should be run instead of the leagues. If they plan to keep the provincials the way they are then the Dubs should be rotated. No bother taking Galway out of Connaught when the need was there so no issue why the Dubs couldn't be rotated. Why? give players from other Leinster counties something to aspire to in the short term.

For the All Ireland series then you do an open draw with knockout. S*it of get off the pot as such. I think then you would stand a better chance of beating a team better than yourselves on a given day. If the Dubs are beatable it's only going to be in one game. They won't be caught on the hop twice.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 08/12/2020 16:08:07    2320299

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "Dublin city.....population 554k, Co Town Dublin

Dun Laoghaire- Rathdown...pop. 218k Co Town Dun Laoghaire

Fingal......population...….. 296k Co Town Swords

South Dublin...…...population...278k Co Town Tallaght

The above is the official designation given to the four administrative regions in Dublin together with their Co Towns,each has their own coat of arms also.

Is it too much to ask that each of the four field a team to compete against counties of similar and indeed much less populations?

For those that know can you say what and how many GAA Clubs are in each region?"
There are only two clubs in Dun Laoire Rathdown

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4956 - 08/12/2020 16:17:45    2320304

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "Dublin city.....population 554k, Co Town Dublin

Dun Laoghaire- Rathdown...pop. 218k Co Town Dun Laoghaire

Fingal......population...….. 296k Co Town Swords

South Dublin...…...population...278k Co Town Tallaght

The above is the official designation given to the four administrative regions in Dublin together with their Co Towns,each has their own coat of arms also.

Is it too much to ask that each of the four field a team to compete against counties of similar and indeed much less populations?

For those that know can you say what and how many GAA Clubs are in each region?"
Yaeh two clubs in Dun Laorie Rathdown LOL

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4956 - 08/12/2020 16:19:01    2320305

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Replying To Kurt_Angle:  "Well my own area of Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown has only a handful of clubs, including ladies clubs (Fox-Cab) and colleges (UCD). Only four of those clubs would play in division 1. I can only speculate but I'd imagine a DLR team would be very weak and would struggle against the most modest of sides. There is also no stadiums in the area and there would be little capacity to build one given the built up nature of the area and the cost of land etc.

In answer to your question of "is it too much to ask that each of the four field a team to compete against counties of similar and indeed much less populations" the answer is yes, absolutely in DLR's case. You just looked up numbers on the internet and drew a completely unreasonable conclusion from these."
There are only two large clubs in Dun Laoire Rathdown Cuala and Ballinteer, this is nonsense of the highest order. Foxrock are a Ladies Football club only!!

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4956 - 08/12/2020 16:20:25    2320306

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Replying To Victorious87:  "The solution for the Dublin question for me is simple. I would like to see Dublin's underage teams officially split into North and South Dublin (they already do this at under 14 level) and both teams ply in Leinster competitions al the way to under 20s. Dublin have two panels all the way up to minor level anyway, this makes things official. If the seniors have go on to dominate the next decade like this then you have the next crop of players who have played for North/South Dublin the whole time and it is a smoother transition. This benefits Dublin underage and also levels the playing field in Leinster and All Ireland underage competitions. I can't see many negatives to it?"
Just ask the Dubs won't happen without them!!

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4956 - 08/12/2020 16:23:11    2320311

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First off forget population it doesn't count in Dublin. However if it is to count in Dublin it has to count in Leitrim otherwise how are you legally going to draft a consitituion for the GAA? Its about fairness first and foremost. Gilroy made a huge point not addressed here, you will only "sell" this if other counties accept amalgamations, a bit of give and take, Dublin will only accept solutions if they are involved in it. If (and its a massive IF) you are going to divide Dublin up only an idiot would do it along local authority boundaries. The only possible way is two teams, North and South, unfortunately they will probably be contesting finals for the next twenty years, with each other unless you address the other problems in smaller counties.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4956 - 08/12/2020 16:30:46    2320319

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Splitting up counties or creating regional teams would never work. There is too much history and tradition in each respective county and each county has its own identity. I can never imagine myself shouting on a combined Mayo/Roscommon/Galway team!!

The first question to ask is 'define success?' Success in Leitrim is different than Dublin. A win for Leitrim against even Sligo would mean a lot to them. Getting league promotion would mean a lot to them.
So on that basis - the GAA need to create a championship structure where all counties can set goals at the start of the year. 'Success' would be different in each county and not necessarily winning Sam.
Jim McGuinness on Off The Ball presented what I thought was a very effective format where it was very easy for each team to set realistic goals at the start of the year. It also give weaker teams chances to play games in packed houses which will promote football in that county. It makes the league competitive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q23yPOOik7U

When an effective championship structure is created - the GAA need to develop a financial plan where all counties are treated equally. The same resources should be available for the weaker teams as Dublin. Players in Leitrim should get the same treatment and resources as Dublin i.e. S&C coaches, lifestyle coaches, games coaches etc etc

We need to come to terms with the fact that Dublin will dominate the next 10 years but the above can be done in the meantime to help bridge that gap.

hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 449 - 08/12/2020 16:36:01    2320321

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Replying To arock:  "There are only two large clubs in Dun Laoire Rathdown Cuala and Ballinteer, this is nonsense of the highest order. Foxrock are a Ladies Football club only!!"
Are you saying I think there are only two large clubs in DLR or are you saying you think this? It's a little unclear.

However, if it's the former, I said only 4 of the DLR clubs are in division 1 so clearly I think there are more.

If it's the latter, do you not think Stillorgan and / or Blackthorn / Moreen is in DLR? Or do you not think Kilmacud Crokes and / or Naomh Olaf (both division 1) are big clubs?

In relation to Foxrock (or Foxrock-Cabinteely as they are actually called since the merger), I clearly stated that they were a ladies club (for the purposes of highlighting the fact that the modest number of clubs in the area would not necessarily contribute to a senior intercounty team). I've no idea why you felt the need to restate this fact.

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 08/12/2020 17:09:17    2320343

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "You need to be sensible and realistic in your posts re what can be done to make the game more competitive and also have more people playing the game in Dublion.Spurious stuff does not contribute to real debate and I think you know that.What is your proposal,beyong hand wringing and knocking any attempt at debate on the issue?Awaiting your positive proposal!"
I've already suggested a positive proposal. You have to challenge the Vision of the GAA if you really want change. Simply because, the GAA's vision is all about participation.

With high levels of participation, comes the advantage for larger populated Counties, and the significant disadvantage of low populated Counties. Nobody has every suggested that Galway or Mayo split because smaller Counties like Sligo and Leitrim cant compete. So why single out Dublin?

For me, everyone needs to rock on and accept that Football is no different to any other sport in the world. Dominance is possible but wont last for ever.

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1478 - 08/12/2020 17:14:54    2320347

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Replying To arock:  "First off forget population it doesn't count in Dublin. However if it is to count in Dublin it has to count in Leitrim otherwise how are you legally going to draft a consitituion for the GAA? Its about fairness first and foremost. Gilroy made a huge point not addressed here, you will only "sell" this if other counties accept amalgamations, a bit of give and take, Dublin will only accept solutions if they are involved in it. If (and its a massive IF) you are going to divide Dublin up only an idiot would do it along local authority boundaries. The only possible way is two teams, North and South, unfortunately they will probably be contesting finals for the next twenty years, with each other unless you address the other problems in smaller counties."
Dublin are an elite football team playing in a competition against teams that are well below their standard.We can have an elite competition with amalgamated teams incl one or two amalgamated teams in the "new" Dublin set up.A secondary and different competition/s can take place with all counties taking part including the four "Dublin" teams.It might be time to do away with the provincial championships and have graded competitions similar to what the hurling has.A team should have a realistic chance of winning a competition it takes part in or at least be competitive.The gaa is a terrific organization but it should not remain static,its time for imaginative change.
Am just wondering how many competitive amalgamated teams could we have starting with maybe two in Dublin playing in an elite competition.....adjacent teams/counties to amalgamate where its realistic but not necessarily in the same province ...any takers? would Kerry be a stand alone team and Mayo?

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 08/12/2020 17:40:20    2320358

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Replying To daytona11:  "If there is an appetite to retain the provincials then they should be run instead of the leagues. If they plan to keep the provincials the way they are then the Dubs should be rotated. No bother taking Galway out of Connaught when the need was there so no issue why the Dubs couldn't be rotated. Why? give players from other Leinster counties something to aspire to in the short term.

For the All Ireland series then you do an open draw with knockout. S*it of get off the pot as such. I think then you would stand a better chance of beating a team better than yourselves on a given day. If the Dubs are beatable it's only going to be in one game. They won't be caught on the hop twice."
The provincial competitions should have a stand alone element. Not all competitions have to be completed before another starts.
Dublin being rotated doesnt change the fact that most Leinster counties are in divisions 3 and 4 of the league.

Galway were taken out of Connacht for completely different reasons
Dublin being rotated doesnt help other provinces or Leinster teams.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3789 - 08/12/2020 18:41:52    2320381

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The worst thing about splitting Dublin in four is that you'd be quadrupling the chances of outrageously dull All-Ireland victory speeches.

Adler (Monaghan) - Posts: 754 - 08/12/2020 22:20:16    2320493

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Give kerry the same funding as dublin and we will do 10 in a row as well. I wonder as well are them boys working at the moment or training full time. That could be the answer to why there legs are going strong when there opponents are knackered

traleegerry (Kerry) - Posts: 738 - 08/12/2020 22:31:31    2320498

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Replying To Adler:  "The worst thing about splitting Dublin in four is that you'd be quadrupling the chances of outrageously dull All-Ireland victory speeches."
Your lot will never have that
Problem anyway-:)

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2850 - 08/12/2020 22:35:01    2320499

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Replying To Adler:  "The worst thing about splitting Dublin in four is that you'd be quadrupling the chances of outrageously dull All-Ireland victory speeches."
Almost every all Ireland speech I've ever heard is outrageously dull
"Aaah,, id like to thank..... Aaah,, id like to thank..... Aaahh,, id like to thank"

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 08/12/2020 22:45:43    2320507

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Utter nonsense to even talk about splitting Dublin. GAA have to do something drastic but this is not the solution. The heads of the GAA need to do a major review, even get some outside help. If they can build one of the best stadiums in the world surely they can come up with a plan for the next 25years or else football will die as a major sport. It will always have a strong place in communities but a radical overall is needed at county level. The same money and effort needs to be injected into every county for both codes regardless of tradition etc. Why should a player from so called weaker counties accept the status quo and accept that they have no chance of ever winning anything. If the GAA saw fit to help Dublin when it was perceived the GAA was in trouble in Dublin surely they can see that it is in trouble in every other county and do something about while there's still a chance.

Evora (Meath) - Posts: 4 - 08/12/2020 22:56:28    2320510

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Replying To arock:  "Just ask the Dubs won't happen without them!!"
If the football championship ends up a Dublin procession every year (we are moving towards this) the Dubs will probably get their heads around supporting a split a bit after the rest of the country. If the GAA decide Dublin needs to be split for the good of the game and there is opposition within Dublin the GAA will have to put the overall good of the game first.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1415 - 08/12/2020 23:02:37    2320511

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How about two new provinces?

North Leinster: Louth, Meath, Westmeath, Longford, Offaly and North Dublin

South Leinster: Wexford, Carlow, Kildare, Laois, Wicklow and South Dublin. (Kilkenny if they were interested?)

The five winners of the backdoor competition play the five provincial winners in the super 10's.

An alternative would be to let South Dublin and North Dublin play in the league and whoever finishes highest gets to represent Dublin in the championship.

BlueHeaven (Cavan) - Posts: 75 - 08/12/2020 23:54:12    2320515

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When Dublin win again this year it will be 8 out of the last 10 and no one can seriously say that's a competitive Championship; the All Ireland will have descended into an annual coronation. When the Dubs won it in 2011 after 16 years there was genuine goodwill right across across the island for them. My brother in law is a Dub, he was in tears and had every right to be. Yes the Dubs success was built on a lot of good internal work but Croke Park's 16 million Euros investment in the county over the preceding decade gave them a massive advantage in terms of coaching, infrastructure and facilities. It was the foundations from which a now 'professional in all but name' Dublin GAA county squad and set up now exists. You may get Mayo or Kerry giving the Dubs a lash the odd time but let's not kid ourselves, Gaelic football is suffering as a genuinely fair, competitive and to be honest interesting sport. There was far more entertainment in the Ulster and Munster Football Championships.
I can understand the Jacks being outraged at the very thought of splitting their county as they are in a Golden era of constant success, milk and honey. In a way it's not their fault, though I do believe an arrogance and sense of entitlement has settled into to many Dublin fans, but something drastic needs to be done or football will continue to wither on the vine. A detached GAA hierarchy are just burying their heads, are in total denial about the situation and consequently I firmly believe nothing will change. So long as a successful Dublin football team, and a very competitive hurling scene, continue to bring in enough revenue to pay the full time salaries and expenses in Croke Park the GAA will happily plough along. The rest of us will continue be patronised, told to enjoy the wonderful Dubs and given a few crumbs from the table every so often. Eventually though players and fans will drift away to other sports. You just can't fool all of the people all of the time.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9825 - 09/12/2020 02:08:10    2320523

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