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Are you seriously saying clubs around the country are unwilling to fundraise? You are completely ignorant to everything outside of Dublin. hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 449 - 05/01/2021 20:40:51 2326197 Link 2 |
Nope not at all, in fact the opposite, if my point was unclear I'll clarify, clubs outside of Dublin seem not to want to spend funds on 50% of a GDO/GDA. The option is there. Some smaller clubs in Dublin share one between a few to meet the cost. Let's be honest, there is a bit money knocking around in the black economy in the club game, personally I'd like to see clubs invest more in grassroots with GDOs rather then pay managers and back room teams in the club game. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4518 - 05/01/2021 21:47:28 2326210 Link 1 |
The option is not there. The ISC money was a special allocation for Dublin, not available to other counties to apply for. To imply that the GDO funding equivalent to what Dublin clubs have is available on some sort of open application basis across the country is highly misleading.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2113 - 05/01/2021 23:48:33 2326229 Link 2 |
Outside of Dublin a huge proportion of the finances is spent on travelling expenses for county players!
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 05/01/2021 23:54:17 2326230 Link 1 |
Fair play Mick, my own view is if Dublin had playing participation rates of 60-100k then i think their is a logical argument there for a split. It would kill GAA stone dead in Dublin and probably lead to a reunification due to regression ultimately. Personally i couldn't and wouldn't support a half breed Dublin, id actively and vehemently protest it and everything and every company associated. In fact id prefer not to field a team and pull out all together, but that's just me, other might want to get on board with a split. But logically id acknowledge Dublin would have an unfair advantage if the playing numbers hit the level i mention. Its a perverse psychology in a way, the great strides being made by GAA in Dublin, could kill it stone dead - a terrible beauty is born as Mr. William Butler would say. Think its decades off myself and hopefully beyond my lifetime. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4518 - 06/01/2021 11:22:17 2326258 Link 1 |
It's simple enough really. If the gaa want to give money per registered player just do it equally. If its 30e per registered player then Dublin get 30e X 40.000. Give every county the same per register player. That way its fair. Between 2007 to 2018 it was not fair. For anyone to say its fair then is deluded. The figures are out there. Dubs got 274.20e per Reg player. Fermanagh actually got 68e per Reg player. Mayo got 21e and Kerry 19e per Reg player. Now the gaa themselves gave those figures out. Noe it the interest of fairness that is wrong. Its not Dublin's fault or Fermanagh fault but it was wrong and unfair. Treat every county the same is my motto but the gaa don't. They never have. They also showed Kerry and Cork more love in the MFC for years. While I'm don't know for certain I've been told that in the last two years the money thing is being done more fairly. However while I believe a county cant be successful money the money thing imo does nt seperate Dublin from Kerry or Mayo or Cork. It does though make it so much harder on the smaller counties who can't compete. The gaa give grants too for stadia etc but that's a seperate issue. For people to say the money does nt help the senior team are being naive. While the money was given for underage mainly it means the county board now can spend more on the senior team. However as I've stated before even if the gaa stopped Dublin's cash they will be fine with sponsers as will Kerry Cork Mayo. For me it's about fairness not jealousy.For me the saddest thing is that this Dublin team who are absolutely fantastic are being tainted because of the money. The money thing is wrong and also the home games are wrong but also its wrong to blame the Dublin team too who are probably the greatest team we ve ever seen. CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 4026 - 06/01/2021 11:49:29 2326269 Link 0 |
Just out of curiosity what's your take on the idea that splitting Dublin might give other dubs the opportunity to play all Ireland football,, there's some serious talent on the bench,, guys who'd make most other county teams,, but on that team they'll just be bit part players,, for the foreseeable future anyways. I know you're opposed to the split,, and I don't blame you for a second,, I would be too if I were a dub,, but I'd still like to hear your thoughts on that particular aspect. Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 06/01/2021 13:12:25 2326284 Link 0 |
Hopefully it is decades off Username. In reality I think most other counties would not like it either. IÁS for the dubs it would take a full generation at least to buy into it and for us here the championship in particular would never be the same again. You mentioned the juniors username. If Dubs enter into junior again it gives more players chances to play for their county. Winning is not a reason to split Dublin. The only argument that can be used is to give more players a chance and then Cork have to be split too as they nearly have as many players as Dublin. I have no problem if two so called weaker counties want to amalgamate for championship but for me that's where it stops. The irony in that though is county players for those counties might not get to play anymore either. For me no split.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 4026 - 06/01/2021 13:58:47 2326290 Link 0 |
I think if you apply the metric of registered players its unfair Mick. I however dont accept it, i dont accept it on the basis that the GDF goes to registered players - why would registered players need funds to be attracted to Gaelic games - it suggest that money is being used to coach senior established players which isnt the case. Ive posted GDF - to overall population ratios here before and Dublin wouldn't be in roar of almost all counties. id accept that is a rude instrument though to. In that scenario - say Kerry would get more then Dublin pro rata. Truth is no one really knows the formula the GAA use in distribution, i suspect it might be closer to per head of population then registered player, just based on comments admin in the GAA use. id like to see the GAA engaged in the debate, or at least make information public on rationale for distribution. As to be honest people are feeling there way in the dark as to the logic behind distribution and are assuming the metric to suit there point of view, just my take. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4518 - 06/01/2021 14:20:29 2326295 Link 1 |
The schools the GDF coaches go into are probably local schools which feed into the club. The Cul camps are hosted by clubs for kids in the surrounding areas so local clubs are benefiting there also. Dublin are not as dominant in the All Ireland series but it does seem to be getting easier for ye, there have been plenty of large wins and really in the championship in the last 3 years the only time you were really in any risk of losing a match was the drawn final with Kerry when ye went down to 14 men. The point I was making is when you started your run of wins in Leinster in 2005 when you started putting a run of titles together you were still having competitive games (against Meath anyway) up to 2014. But over time it got easier for ye. The All Ireland series to me maybe now is following a similar path in that you seem to be getting further and further ahead of the opposition as the run goes on. I don't think it's arrogant for Dublin people to say you have the best team of all time after 6 in a row. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1415 - 06/01/2021 14:45:03 2326297 Link 0 |
Dublin would be better off losing the All Ireland this year - might buy them another 5 years of the same unfair structure! hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 449 - 06/01/2021 15:04:13 2326301 Link 1 |
I don't know are people calling for a split necessarily to down the Dubs, more out of fear that the All Ireland football championship will become a non event. The thing is Dublin, because of their population (which means more potential players and sponsorship appeal) are different to when the likes of Kerry and Kilkenny were dominant. They really potentially get so far ahead of the rest as to make the competition almost meaningless. For the last few years we have been debating whether Dublin are enjoying a special era which will wane a bit in the future or this is just the new norm of total dominance. As time moves on the latter becomes more likely Total dominance will kill interest in the inter county game, that's the nub of the problem. Leinster teams have had problems getting some of our best players to commit to the panel (a huge commitment for players) as they don't see a realistic chance of winning a Leinster championship. I can see this potentially happening in some of the current all Ireland contenders the way things are going. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1415 - 06/01/2021 15:13:59 2326303 Link 1 |
Oh Username I'm not suggesting the gaa give more money per registered player. That just was the breakdown of the sum of money the gaa dished out and people worked out the figures. It worked out Dublin hot 274.20 per Reg player. Of course if there were more players playing the figures would be less and Fermanagh because of its small playing number is the opposite as it looks like they received alot but in reality they have small numbers. Also I agree the money is not used to coach senior players. However if underage is looked after then the county board have extra money to pay for top trainers for senior players. All the top counties as you are aware have well paid coaches like strength and conditioning etc. The poorer counties cannot afford this. Dublin have basketball coaches boxing coaches etc. Now before I'm attacked about boxing it's to do with reflexes and speed not fighting. Kerry Cork etc have speciised coaches also. Now most of that is done by sponsers hip but again a big sponsers is not going to sponsers a team that won't be on TV much so again the weaker counties lose out and we can't blame the sponsers either.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 4026 - 06/01/2021 15:34:36 2326309 Link 0 |
Yeah, no fair play. I think its a bit overegged really, but i can understand the principal, its the angle Colm O Rourke looks at it at, though i would have my suspicion sits a bit wolf in sheep's clothing myself, ive actually said that to him myself and he broke his heart laughing - all good fun. I dont see it as any different as other counties really, i think their are loads of lads particularly in the top 6 counties in Ireland who would have a challenge getting on squads on panels who would start for the majority of counties. Someone like Connor Cox would be an example, he struggled with Kerry but can shoot the lights out in the Championship and bring home a provincial in Connacht. I was thinking of Mayo retirements, with Seamie O Shea, Parsons, Vahgahn calling it a day and with Higgins and Boyle with questions on their minds, i think there is evidence all around the country for lads who would be at top counties who maybe wont play for their counties as much as if they had two teams or played for a different county. Id wholly acknowledge we have wonderful strength in depth, probably the strongest ever, but i think we do things a little differently. Coaching is very underrated in Dublin, we are wonderful at developing players, im thinking of lads who came into the panel with limits, like Rock, MDM, Macker, Andrews, Cooper, Small and many others, who developed into wonderful players through exposure of high standard and their own application. We really work with players, not that other dont. But its a massively driven competitive environment, you often hear stories coming from training about the A VS B games, its cut throat. Im not sure it would be the same if diluted. Then i think we have different psychological premise. ive often said it on hear, i was at an intimate thing with Jim Gavin once and when he questioned on why he didnt start a certain player - he said - i dont start with my strongest team i finish with it. So the whole thing about bit part players or not starting doesn't com ein to it. It enables a Paddy Small or a Robbie McDaid stepping in. I think its what enables us to fill gaps as the appear and we have won All Ireland without O Carroll, Jack by 2, Dermo, Mannion etc etc. I also think something that is also underrated - is you often hear of all the young lads coming through at certain counties, no body, bring as much youth through as Dublin, - 3-4 players every year. Its not a closed shop its fluid, there are standards you have to reach of course, but there isnt a glass ceiling and i think that fairness is enabling for players. This year we had P Small, Bugler, McDaid all making starting debuts in a final and Collie Basquel came on to in the final. You can go back through the years and there is always three or four. If you are good enough you will be in. Then we have a very knitted system between U20 and Senior, a few U20s are brought in a year or two in advance for senior training while still playing U20 and their development is worked on, while they are still playing U20. POCB is an example and a few other lads this year. Its why Dublin young players seem to always just seamlessly fit in, Howard was the same a few years back. To be honest, i think the Dublin team is no country for old men, we are ruthless, we could have done what Kerry did with Gooch or Mayo with Moran and kept say Brogan around because of his standing, but no he was ruthlessly axed for Con a few years ago - not many counties do that or maybe can. Do i feel we loose a few, not really, there are always from club you would like given a whirl but i don't think there is anyone who hasnt come up the ranks, that is of our standard not really involved or hasn't been. I think we are in a fortunate cycle at the moment, we have some big names on the bench but you wouldn't be surprised if last year was there last year either. Something i have noticed about Dublin is they know teams will give it hell for leather for 30-40 mins and stick it to the Dubs, sometimes we pick players to battle for that period then bring on players to hurt, when tiredness creeps in - this is very purposeful and part of game management. So in short, i think we are pretty much the same as most of the top 6 counties, we have wonderful depth, but we also work really hard on development and are quite free with giving opportunities. Sure we could fill two team like counties but it would dilute the quality. Im not sure why we pulled out of Junior, it was a useful breeding ground for us, but the pathway between U20 and Senor is quite a short one for us and their seems a coherent plan around us. Im not sure we leave many gems behind with an opportunity. Think the point is a bit over egged myself. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4518 - 06/01/2021 16:30:00 2326324 Link 1 |
Yeah i dont get some of the comments Mick, id be gutted if Kerry were split for example, you want to compete against the best all through the front door. I dont think it would ever be bought into myself Mick, i think the split would go that deep, you'd have generations i think vilifying the GAA, it would just die in Dublin, Dubs just wouldn't identify with the GAA anymore, id bring the kids down to soccer and rugby before id let them play GAA if Dublin was split. I know id boycott all their sponsors and the like. Dont think it will happen in my lifetime though. Yeah id be all for for reentering the juniors again, im trying to remember why we pulled out, we got a few in the past from that direction i think Jamsie, Dermo and Bastick may have played Junior (not 100% sure), a couple of the Magees to. maybe things have gotten so structured with us, a pathway from U20 to senior has really been cultivated and very very close ties are there in regard to training and development. Although i can understand the logic o splits and amalgamating - i dont think the evidence is there there yet and id try everything else before. I think the debate might be academic, because doesn't the county in question have to consent to a split or amalgamating. Im not 100% sure but im thinking back to the strategic review of Dublin and i know that was a factor at the time. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4518 - 06/01/2021 16:41:48 2326328 Link 2 |
Can all this crap about Dublin stop, its getting boring now, Dublin happen to have a top class football team and deservedly are probably the best football team in the history of the gaa, saying that mayo and kerry could of beaten them at times over the last 6 years, Dublin footballers should be getting the credit they deserve, if it was all down to money, why have the Dublin hurlers been so poor, underage football and Dublin aren't dominating, there time will come to a end, let's stop moaning and worry about your county. cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 783 - 06/01/2021 17:25:37 2326332 Link 1 |
OK I'm just saying I don't mind if smaller counties amalgamate but I don't want to split any county. If Dublin were split Cork would also have to be split. It would destroy what we know and care for. Yes I would think the county would have to agree but seemingly about 15 yrs ago this was discussed with Dublin and they were nt totally against the idea. Of course this was before this run or success. Anyway hopefully it does nt happen anytime soon
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 4026 - 06/01/2021 17:27:49 2326334 Link 0 |
Just remembered Eoghan Ó Gara won Junior all ireland also.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 4026 - 06/01/2021 17:32:18 2326335 Link 0 |
Fair play Mick, yeah i think you are right, the memory is hazy, but i think crazy horse was on a junior team alright - i dont know why because the memory is sketchy but i think MDM may have been as well. You'll like this one on the split, i was speaking to one of the extended panel in early Dec, the feel inside is that Kerry are the next big thing after their experience in the 2019 games and the feel inside is they will definitely win a few in the coming years, might have been trying to humble but there you go. Id expect all talk of the splits will settle down when you put manners on us. :D TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4518 - 06/01/2021 17:56:01 2326341 Link 1 |
Ah thanks Username. I hope you ré right on both counts lol. Look we will be contenders anyway so I'm happy enough with that as you always have a chance. Also Donegal and Tyrone will be back with a swagger too.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 4026 - 06/01/2021 18:15:36 2326343 Link 1 |