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I think you are confusing calling out a very simplistic, idealistic unworkable idea as arrogance. But to put a different spin on it, take a look at your own county and the financial mis-management over recent years, then accusations by their own commercial sponsors over mishandling finance and a lack of transparency. Why would Dublin or any county agree to carve up 80% of its revenue and put it into other counties while those concerns are live. You may call it arrogant, you may want to wallpaper over and move on from those concerns, to me it's common sense not to bend to quickly. On top of that, as I have said there is no incentive, just get any old deal, the less the better give less away to help rivals, focus your efforts elsewhere, money leaves the game, county's become more dependent on central funds. It's pretty much nonsense in all honesty and will never happen. It's a nice simplistic but ultimately silly and poor idea in my opinion. The clever play is caps on Senior teams to be honest and that would have to centrally administered. Everything else can go to grass roots and development. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4518 - 04/01/2021 21:30:31 2326032 Link 1 |
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I just don't see the evidence to be honest and don't believe it, revenue was booming precovid, sponsorship is increasing, the GAA had never been in a better financial position. Its crystal ball gazing in all honesty. You can project a future, I can project a different one at the end of the day it's opinion based on a belief and point of view. I'd think if fans and counties feel strongly about their point of view they should boycott and not attend games, I think the GAA should do more to be up front in the debate and I think that would help, for me I'm very comfortable with Dublins position in it, so I'd be happy enough with boycotts and the like to e gave the GAA in a debate. Don't think it will ever happen myself, but who knows. It would be like being split, I think their would be mass protest, the GAA vilified in the capital, groups turning up with matches and standing with their back to the game. GAA would be vilified in Dublin, sponsors boycotted and I can imagine a hell of a lot more. You have to carry the courage of your convictions, I'd back all the lads on here venting to boycott. I wonder how many on here would own up to boycotting next year based on the courage of their conviction of opinion on here? TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4518 - 04/01/2021 21:46:12 2326035 Link 1 |
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I don't see supporters boycotting the games per se but a slow fall off in attendances as is happening currently, it could be on life support before remedial action is taken. ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 04/01/2021 22:40:51 2326048 Link 0 |
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Quote from John Fogartys article in The Examiner dated 8th Dec 20202 on splitting Dublin. ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 04/01/2021 23:32:34 2326053 Link 2 |
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In fairness up to now inward migration has had a much bigger effect on Dublin GAA, Meath which historically used to be a rural county, tended, like most rural counties back in the day, to be more into GAA than Dublin. In the future it will be interesting to see will the the huge population growth of the last 20 years improve our (Meath) football teams, ironically in this time up to now this huge population growth seems to negativity impacted our county teams performance. The point about GDF funding is it has resulted in a higher standard (and a greater amount) of club players from which Dublin have to pick from so it is relevant to a debate like this. The central GAA, having being asked by Dublin GAA basically made growing the game in Dublin it's no. 1 priority for the last 15 years or so due to Dublin's huge population. Without the GAA adopting this strategy the growth in the GAA would probably not have happened. Ultimately, due to Dublin's huge population, if the extra funding to grow the game succeeds fully it's kind of inevitable Dublin would be split so it seems logical that this can be brought up for discussion. The analogy of what happened for local government to me is very apt due to the reason it happened,county Dublin's population had grown to the extent that the Dublin county council was felt to cover to big of a population. It's also funny hearing people say that using these these areas in an intercounty is a contradiction, they don't realise that the likes of Fingal are now actual counties. If you are going to split Dublin it seems logical to use actual county boundaries for intercounty competition. We are not there yet but it now seems realistic that a possible knock on effect of the GAA's strategy of growing the game in Dublin will be to permanently put intercounty competition out of balance and eventually make it an irrelevance. If this happens it will be an enormous problem for the GAA. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1415 - 04/01/2021 23:52:51 2326054 Link 1 |
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I think there'll be a serious fall off. Loads of people out of work and down on income after the year gone and it's not looking like the economy will make an instant bounce.. why would I waste my little money on a Leinster championship ticket when I know the outcome?
Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 349 - 05/01/2021 02:07:58 2326058 Link 1 |
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There has been mistakes made in other counties - there is no doubting that. The advantage Dublin have in that respect however - is that they can pay a professional to manage their money. And Dublin have wasted money also - but they have so much of it that it goes unnoticed. Having a cap on county teams is a good idea but very hard to enforce. And it doesn't resolve the obvious financial mismatch between Dublin clubs versus other clubs. hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 449 - 05/01/2021 08:57:57 2326063 Link 1 |
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For me that a good news story, i.e. GDF funding meaning greater club players and the GAA grow i mean that is the function of GDF. In all honesty, im not wholly convinced on the GDF being successful, the cost for the benefit, im not sure it has made a huge dent in playing numbers in Dublin, certainly in the mens game. Structures have certainly improved and less politics and the game has evolved on the southside, but im not wholly convinced this is because of GDF, in sogort im not wholly sure the Dublin model is that effective to be vaunted to be rolled out all over the country. I suppose maybe on a smaller scale you are seeing similar in the likes of Ashbourne, Rahoath and Dunshaughlan etc, Again the rub is an assumption that the entire huge population of Dublin are playing games for 1.4mill population a very poor ratio of 39k are regisited to play. So i dont see the argument or evidence for a split. If say Dublin had playing numbers of 60k-100k then i think you are coming from a much stronger place to justify a split. I dont think that is there at the moment, maybe in the years to come. Not that i would back a split in fact id actually protest it. But i think the argument would have more justification then it does presently. The argument at the moment in based on fatigue of Dublin winning. I think its a bit rude using county areas myself, places might have populations but different levels of playing populations and i think that's an important distinction in the debate, total population is different from playing population. I think you are making that very point about migration and Meath football. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4518 - 05/01/2021 10:39:17 2326071 Link 1 |
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I think that is assumption to be honest, i think county's look at Dublin through their own eyes and apply their needs to Dublin finance. Dublin make a lot of revenue, but also have bigger outgoing then other county's, in terms of catering for huge population at grassroots and land etc. Its economies of scale really. I think caps could work and id back them wholly, more needs to go to grassroots for me. My idea would that it be centrally administered and vouched and not left to individual counties. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4518 - 05/01/2021 10:42:19 2326073 Link 1 |
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To those advocating splitting a county would you see merit in another approach, combining counties? In a way its a Dublin solution as that is what they did back in the 90s with their college hurling teams. It made Dublin competitive at under age and helped bring them from being a hurling basket-case to one that can on their day stand shoulder to shoulder with the other Liam McCarthy counties. This is done at club level in many counties with parish teams etc Maroonatic (Galway) - Posts: 1070 - 05/01/2021 11:36:32 2326082 Link 0 |
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Combining/merging/amalgamating counties has been covered quite a bit on this thread, in conjunction with splitting/diluting Dublin, for the AI competition only.Counties would still have their own identity and an opportunity to privide players to play at an elite and competitive level. ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 05/01/2021 11:57:52 2326086 Link 0 |
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Amalgamations could in theory work at County level, counties would play the league as normal but smaller counties would have the option of joining with others for the Championship. It would have to be carefully planned and resourced of course, and would not work without the buy in of said counties. I think the league would need to be given more prominence and moved closer to the summer as well to ensure that the traditional county model is not lost. It's arguably a better competition anyway. In relation to splitting Dublin, too politically sensitive, Dublin are very powerful and the GAA won't want to risk losing Dublin supporters, it won't happen in the short or medium term anyway. It probably should happen though. If you were starting a new sport today and drawing up a set of teams it would be ludicrous to allocate only one team to Dublin. It is what it is however. It's good that the GAA are moving to a more centralised model for player and team expenses. I don't think spending caps are practical or enforceable personally. The bigger teams will probably be happy enough to see them introduced to give the appearance of fairness, knowing there will be all sorts of creative ways around it. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2113 - 05/01/2021 12:45:09 2326100 Link 1 |
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Regarding GDF grants given to Dublin over the last 15/ 20 years. It is not the aim of the GDF to necessary improve Dublin inter county teams but they obviously increase the pool of players to pick from and improve the standard of players playing so they contribute to much better Dublin teams. Sometimes people almost argue that the GAA trying to grow the games in Dublin is bad because it will put the inter county game out if balance due to Dublin's population. To me this seems a strange argument as Dublin is the main population centre so the GAA needs to try be strong here (debating whether the current situation is equatable to players living in different areas makes sense but the basic goal of getting more people playing in non traditional GAA areas of Dublin I think should be agreed by most) But the GAA also needs a meaningful inter county scene as GAA people are very interested in this and it encourages kids to play the games. People can stick their heads in the sand if they like but the All Ireland series, if present trends could shortly lose the interest of the general public in the same way the Leinster football championship has (ok, I'm interested in games we are involved in but I always remember talking to a Dublin supporter at work a few years ago and he was talking about matches in the Leinster championship back in the day 'when it was still worth winning'). I honestly think if trends keep going the same way as now (and Dublin continue to get further ahead) splitting Dublin will become an obvious solution even amongst Dublin people. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1415 - 05/01/2021 12:48:34 2326101 Link 2 |
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In all honesty im not sure the playing pool has improved significantly, personally id like to see a review of the effectiveness of Dublin GDF and equating to numbers of improvement in participation. The last thing the DCB, GAA or any other county wants is 1 million going to the Dublin every year and no improvement in registered players. I mean that genuinely, im undecided whether the scale of the funding has improved things that much. Probably what the funding has improved is a focus on structures and made made Dublin less parochial as it needed to form a strategy. From the mid 00s to now, what we have seen is an All County approach and systemic equitable strategy rather then a focus on Northside strongholds and an unbalanced club scene that often led to internal politics. The integration of the southside GAA Scene and growth is the single biggest contributor to me and that is directly attributable to a strategy as opposed to funds. Im not sure participation rates have risen hugely, but id like to see a review of it. Dublin always really had the potential but never the plan, that changed. Id reference the All Ireland winning/competing Kilmacud and Davies teams of the 90/00s - hardly any of those players represented Dublin despite their success, its evidence of how the game used to be in Dublin. Take the southside players out of the current Dublin team and it looks a while lot weaker. On GDF itself and club i think a popular misconception is that coaches are going in and coaching teams. In my experience this isnt the case, GDO go in and organize juvenile competitions in clubs and follow through from primary, but another key role in training the volunteer coaches, the coaching is all voluntary and the role of a GDO/GDA is to train the trainers. Maybe another point is the scale of volunteers obviously having a big population means we have access to man power to commit to the training of younger snd club players. On Leinster, i love the Leinster Championship, i remember all those days and battles against yourselves in particular. was massively competitive. But its a labor of love now, its uncompetitive. If im being honest, i think the truth lies in the middle, we have gotten better, but needed to. Meath and other counties have gotten worse (though i think Meath are doing the right structural things now and improving) and i think that accounts for the gap. I think the provinces have had their time to be honest, certainly Munster and Leinster. If im honest i think the GAA will do away with provinces, two tier championships etc. Before they would ever look at splitting or amalgamating. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4518 - 05/01/2021 13:41:43 2326108 Link 1 |
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For me, mainly from what I read here and being aware what happens at clubs around me, Dublin people don't seem to get what a huge advantage it is for a club being able to have a trained full time person paid to over see the development of underage players in their club (I know they are not taking every training session but having them overseeing the other trainers in the club is huge). In terms of numbers, I don't know figures but talking to Dublin people at work, it just seems there is now a far bigger interest in the GAA in Dublin and more of their kids seem to be playing than years ago. I remember a guy laughing at seeing kids on the streets with hurls in Dalkey, he said this never would have been seeing when he was a kid. For me I often think the All Ireland football championship now seems to be in a similar place to where the Leinster football championship was about 10 years ago, when Dublin started winning Leinster almost every year in 2005 for the first good few years Meath Dublin games were competitive but from 2014 Meath could not get near ye. I can easily see the Dublin winning All Irelands easier as time goes on and the run continues. If this happens it will kill the interest in inter county competition. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1415 - 05/01/2021 16:13:03 2326131 Link 1 |
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You are contradicting yourself. In you're above post you said Dublin had a relatively small playing population of 39k - here you say Dublin current revenue is to cater for the huge population at grassroots. I presume the 39k covers grassroots? Ye can't have it both ways. Split the county of split the cash. hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 449 - 05/01/2021 16:24:58 2326134 Link 2 |
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Well Username to be honest I would nt like to see Dublin split either but it will happen eventually I would imagine although I hope not for a long time. The first one I heard mention Dublin should be split was Colm Ó Rourke but to be fair to him it was nt down to winning but more to give players a better chance of playing inter County. I think now there s over 40 thousand Reg players in Dublin and while it's not huge compared to population ratio nonetheless its fairly big and bigger than some counties total population. The split seems to be spoke about alot due to the success of this Dublin team but others like Ó Rourke seek it for other reasons(or so they tell us anyway). Cork have the 2nd biggest number of registered players and could be split too albeit they more worried about hurling. The thing is that during recessions people immigrate or move to cities ré jobs and money so their kids grow up in the cities mean g population there grows while their original counties decrease in population. I think people need to look at this from an impartial view while also respecting the view of the fans also. I genuinely feel most are calling for a split to try down the dubs and that's not right. Maybe Dublin can enter a 2nd team in the lower leagues or Ó Byrne cups to give others chance to play inter County but leave the senior set up as it is. I don't think too many would be calling for a split if Dublin had nt won so many all Irelands recently. I don't know the answer but for me the supporters views are paramount to these discussions.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 4026 - 05/01/2021 16:59:35 2326138 Link 1 |
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Are you being serious? Of course the two things can exist mutually, that in fact is the actual dilema - i would have thought that was really clear. Why has so much funds and effort been put into Dublin in terms of games promotion and particpation because it has a massive population of 1.4 million and only has 39k registered players are participating, that is a shocking ratio and percentage of the population. Seriously what do you think the motivation behind all this is. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4518 - 05/01/2021 17:41:27 2326151 Link 1 |
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That description is also a popular misconception though, its not a full time paid professional, 50% of the role is in the club and the club pay for the 50% role attributed to the club. The club are paying for a service through fundraising. The other 50% is provided by ISC grant and is taken up with go games, Cul Camps and PE in primary school really. We couldn't do what we do without the clubs contributing. I dont know how you could even stop that club aspect of funding, given the funds arent centrally given and are raised by the community and clubs. Its something other clubs around the country seem unwilling to do. As i say im not to sure, on an increase on registered players, Mick says its 40k now, i wouldn't correct him, but haven't seen a source myself. Ive questioned on here for a while, whether the Dublin model is that effective, my personal experience would query it in terms of increased participation, certainly in non traditional strong holds in the county. You look at the current Dublin champions and the club has 300 members, and the GAA has a very poor penetration in big suburban areas particularly in West Dublin that are growing exponentially, there aren't great projects going on either. Im not sure we are as dominant in the All Ireland series as we have been in Leinster. Leinster has regressed while we have improved. I think there are five or six counties who can give us a game and have a hope of beating us and competing. But id probably say the same about those counties. Personally i think we have been the best football team of all time, i dont mean to be arrogant in saying that, i just think we have been and i think we are good, very very good, in fact just unprecedently great. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4518 - 05/01/2021 18:09:01 2326157 Link 2 |
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After 5 years of this nonsense wouldn't you think someone somewhere would nail the truth down? It is exhausting dealing with the same cliche's and Urban myths every few threads on this forum. GPO's do not train Dublin club teams, this maybe the case outside of Dublin but it is not the case in Dublin. Games Promotion Officer - note Promotion in the title - get more playing. They go into schools (boys and girls), organise club nursery, recruit from parents coaches/mentors, organise formal training, but primarily it is to get more school kids playing the games. Who funds these GPO's in Dublin? If you don't know why comment? arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4956 - 05/01/2021 19:16:00 2326177 Link 2 |