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Replying To TheUsername: "Isn't that true of any county though - i mean all those same opportunities are there for other counties if they have four representative teams in their county.
You'd be thinking of lads like Connor Cox and lads representing at Junior All Ireland level. Dublin i don't think field a Junior team this weather." Well you have reiterated that there are no good reasons why Dublin should be left as one stand alone team.
And you know that's representative of the thinking out there now as the push for parity gathers pace.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 04/01/2021 15:09:33
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Interesting article by Denis Walsh in the Sunday papers . (Yes, some of us still read papers). Dublin footballer's dominance is contrasted with the lack of success for the hurlers even though, according to claims in the article, both squads get in or around the same funding and resources. That seems to provide evidence its not the money that makes the difference. Also, apparently there are more registered adult club footballers in Cork than in Dublin. Likewise only Cork and Tipp have more registered adult club hurlers. Make of that what you may
Maroonatic (Galway) - Posts: 1070 - 04/01/2021 15:16:39
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Replying To Maroonatic: "Interesting article by Denis Walsh in the Sunday papers . (Yes, some of us still read papers). Dublin footballer's dominance is contrasted with the lack of success for the hurlers even though, according to claims in the article, both squads get in or around the same funding and resources. That seems to provide evidence its not the money that makes the difference. Also, apparently there are more registered adult club footballers in Cork than in Dublin. Likewise only Cork and Tipp have more registered adult club hurlers. Make of that what you may" Look, anyone with half a brain can already see that. The Kerry lads are sore because they have not been as good as us, period.
Some of them insisting they're a more skilful set of footballers, why? because they're Kerry, so it must be the money
Anyone who knows anything about football can see that the Dublin players are 'handy enough ' in that regard!
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8812 - 04/01/2021 16:25:42
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Replying To Maroonatic: "Interesting article by Denis Walsh in the Sunday papers . (Yes, some of us still read papers). Dublin footballer's dominance is contrasted with the lack of success for the hurlers even though, according to claims in the article, both squads get in or around the same funding and resources. That seems to provide evidence its not the money that makes the difference. Also, apparently there are more registered adult club footballers in Cork than in Dublin. Likewise only Cork and Tipp have more registered adult club hurlers. Make of that what you may" But if there are more registered footballer sin Cork than Dublin - why don't Cork receive more funding than Dublin?
Surely as a matter of fairness, income generated by each county should be divided between counties based on the amount of registered footballers in that county.
And yes, that would mean the Dubs would have to give away some of their sponsorship money to other counties, but it is an amateur game and fairness and equality should prevail. The majority of business is done in Dublin so obviously they are going to generate the most income through sponsorship.
And Dublin should never be divided in 2, 3 or 4. You can't just split up a county.
hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 449 - 04/01/2021 16:49:34
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Replying To hopballref: "But if there are more registered footballer sin Cork than Dublin - why don't Cork receive more funding than Dublin?
Surely as a matter of fairness, income generated by each county should be divided between counties based on the amount of registered footballers in that county.
And yes, that would mean the Dubs would have to give away some of their sponsorship money to other counties, but it is an amateur game and fairness and equality should prevail. The majority of business is done in Dublin so obviously they are going to generate the most income through sponsorship.
And Dublin should never be divided in 2, 3 or 4. You can't just split up a county." But how much will sponsors give in future to counties if the money they give has to go to other counties.
Why would AIG, Kerry Group, Teneo or anyone else give 200'000 for example a year to Dublin, Kerry, Tipp if 40'000 was to go to other counties. They wont.
We are talking about the elite level of the sport. Dublin shouldnt be giving any money to other counties. Put a proper system in place to monitor spending by counties and put a maximum limit on spending but you cant take money from Dublin, Kerry etc to give to other counties.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3789 - 04/01/2021 16:59:01
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Replying To KillingFields: "But how much will sponsors give in future to counties if the money they give has to go to other counties.
Why would AIG, Kerry Group, Teneo or anyone else give 200'000 for example a year to Dublin, Kerry, Tipp if 40'000 was to go to other counties. They wont.
We are talking about the elite level of the sport. Dublin shouldnt be giving any money to other counties. Put a proper system in place to monitor spending by counties and put a maximum limit on spending but you cant take money from Dublin, Kerry etc to give to other counties." You are correct - they may give a bit less. But they will still give enough to enable them to be that counties main sponsor i.e. AIG will donate more to enable them to be printed on the Dublin jersey.
There is far too much money being spent on preparing county teams at the moment anyway and at least by managing money that way - there is fairness across the board.
It is ridiculous what is happening at the moment all be it not Dublin's fault. It's the GAA that need to act.
hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 449 - 04/01/2021 17:27:04
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Replying To hopballref: "You are correct - they may give a bit less. But they will still give enough to enable them to be that counties main sponsor i.e. AIG will donate more to enable them to be printed on the Dublin jersey.
There is far too much money being spent on preparing county teams at the moment anyway and at least by managing money that way - there is fairness across the board.
It is ridiculous what is happening at the moment all be it not Dublin's fault. It's the GAA that need to act." But why would Dublin, or anyone else for that matter bother looking for top sponsorship when its going elsewhere, surely it would be in Dublin best interest to get 10 euro in sponsorship from, Whackers corner shop. More incentive to get less, rather then more. Race to the bottom and ultimately all counties would do the same, ultimately meaning millions in money leaving the game. All these things are great vents, but dont have practical real world logical application. Imagine trying to get that through congress, congress cant even ring themselves to vote Dublin out of Croke Park for a "neutral venue" game for fear of counties loosing a few bob.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4518 - 04/01/2021 17:44:40
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Replying To Maroonatic: "Interesting article by Denis Walsh in the Sunday papers . (Yes, some of us still read papers). Dublin footballer's dominance is contrasted with the lack of success for the hurlers even though, according to claims in the article, both squads get in or around the same funding and resources. That seems to provide evidence its not the money that makes the difference. Also, apparently there are more registered adult club footballers in Cork than in Dublin. Likewise only Cork and Tipp have more registered adult club hurlers. Make of that what you may" Yes but the hurlers are/were coming from much further back in their development than the footballers in Dublin so its a case of apples and oranges comparison.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 04/01/2021 18:14:56
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It's gonna happen but will take a while...probably incrementally the way the GAA do things. Splitting Dublin and having merged teams was officially proposed 19 years ago and Dublin were a little warm to the idea back then.The GAA missed a golden opportunity to restructure Dublin in association with funding at that time.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 04/01/2021 18:22:13
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Replying To TheUsername: "But why would Dublin, or anyone else for that matter bother looking for top sponsorship when its going elsewhere, surely it would be in Dublin best interest to get 10 euro in sponsorship from, Whackers corner shop. More incentive to get less, rather then more. Race to the bottom and ultimately all counties would do the same, ultimately meaning millions in money leaving the game. All these things are great vents, but dont have practical real world logical application. Imagine trying to get that through congress, congress cant even ring themselves to vote Dublin out of Croke Park for a "neutral venue" game for fear of counties loosing a few bob." Sponsorship will fall of in tandem with the game's popularity decreasing and its popularity has started to slide big time and we all know these marketing boys are not into throwing money away,they have to get results and those results will be less obtainable when the game becomes less and less popular.The law of diminishing returns will quickly come into play when the crowds fall off even more.Its imperative that the GAA hierarchy take action to save the AI football championship,and remedial action is necessary now!
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 04/01/2021 18:31:17
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Replying To TheUsername: "But why would Dublin, or anyone else for that matter bother looking for top sponsorship when its going elsewhere, surely it would be in Dublin best interest to get 10 euro in sponsorship from, Whackers corner shop. More incentive to get less, rather then more. Race to the bottom and ultimately all counties would do the same, ultimately meaning millions in money leaving the game. All these things are great vents, but dont have practical real world logical application. Imagine trying to get that through congress, congress cant even ring themselves to vote Dublin out of Croke Park for a "neutral venue" game for fear of counties loosing a few bob." How would it? Dublin would still get the greatest percentage of the pot because they have the highest playing population.
Or it could be done that you only give away, say 80%, of your counties money. Meaning there is still incentive there for counties to look for sponsorship as the 20% they keep will be greater.
Something has to be done anyway, that is just an example.
hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 449 - 04/01/2021 19:02:45
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Replying To TheUsername: "But why would Dublin, or anyone else for that matter bother looking for top sponsorship when its going elsewhere, surely it would be in Dublin best interest to get 10 euro in sponsorship from, Whackers corner shop. More incentive to get less, rather then more. Race to the bottom and ultimately all counties would do the same, ultimately meaning millions in money leaving the game. All these things are great vents, but dont have practical real world logical application. Imagine trying to get that through congress, congress cant even ring themselves to vote Dublin out of Croke Park for a "neutral venue" game for fear of counties loosing a few bob." How would it? Dublin would still get the greatest percentage of the pot because they have the highest playing population.
Or it could be done that you only give away, say 80%, of your counties money. Meaning there is still incentive there for counties to look for sponsorship as the 20% they keep will be greater.
Something has to be done anyway, that is just an example.
hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 449 - 04/01/2021 19:12:36
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Replying To ONdeDITCH: "Sponsorship will fall of in tandem with the game's popularity decreasing and its popularity has started to slide big time and we all know these marketing boys are not into throwing money away,they have to get results and those results will be less obtainable when the game becomes less and less popular.The law of diminishing returns will quickly come into play when the crowds fall off even more.Its imperative that the GAA hierarchy take action to save the AI football championship,and remedial action is necessary now!" We've been hearing about the death of football since Kerry's dominance through to Puke Football, via Jim McGuiness, Blanket defence and now Dublin dominance, their always seems to be someone somewhere predicting the asteroid that will take out football.
I just don't see it to be honest, GAA posting record returns pre COVID. Not sure gate receipts are as fundamental as they used to be either. Croke Park, corporate, premium and match day hospitality revenue - excluding the general gate brought in more revenue then all GAA gate receipts pre COVID. GAA revenue streams are becoming more diversified.
Besides you said yourself Dublin is the biggest market, why would continued success see commercial revenue fall, their is a reason why the GAA would do anything to keep Dublin in Croke Park - that I would acknowledge is unfair. It's because brands, sponsors, corporate boxes, premium seat holders all do business in Dublin - it's the biggest market, the most well supported County - they and hence the GAA want Dublin on the Croke Park ticket for all those benefits. Dublin are the white knight of GAA commercial strategy. It's why the GAA would never let Dublin of the leash and support a DCB stadium in Dublin.
It's part of why the GAA would never split, vehemently Dubs would shun the GAA it would be an organisation of adversary, any brand or sponsor wouldn't want to be associated with an organisation, vilified by the Country biggest market. Therefore it's pie in the sky.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4518 - 04/01/2021 19:29:35
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Replying To hopballref: "How would it? Dublin would still get the greatest percentage of the pot because they have the highest playing population.
Or it could be done that you only give away, say 80%, of your counties money. Meaning there is still incentive there for counties to look for sponsorship as the 20% they keep will be greater.
Something has to be done anyway, that is just an example." Because there is zero incentive to get a good deal if you give 80% away to enable rivals, a lot of effort, negotiation and strategy goes into these deals, you just wouldn't bother, but be great craic to go back to Arnots. You would just throw all your resources at the next best way of getting revenue in, fundraising or whatever was left to County boards. It's a race the bottom. Won't happen anyway, County's all sign legal contracts with Counties or subsidiaries not with the GAA, contract law, liability etc all comes into play. Besides their is a big difference between equality and equity people don't grasp in these debates.
Only yesterday we saw Cork enter into a multi year arrangement with Sports Direct.
Besides Turkeys dont vote for Xmas, not a chance that would pass in congress.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4518 - 04/01/2021 19:39:00
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Replying To TheUsername: "We've been hearing about the death of football since Kerry's dominance through to Puke Football, via Jim McGuiness, Blanket defence and now Dublin dominance, their always seems to be someone somewhere predicting the asteroid that will take out football.
I just don't see it to be honest, GAA posting record returns pre COVID. Not sure gate receipts are as fundamental as they used to be either. Croke Park, corporate, premium and match day hospitality revenue - excluding the general gate brought in more revenue then all GAA gate receipts pre COVID. GAA revenue streams are becoming more diversified.
Besides you said yourself Dublin is the biggest market, why would continued success see commercial revenue fall, their is a reason why the GAA would do anything to keep Dublin in Croke Park - that I would acknowledge is unfair. It's because brands, sponsors, corporate boxes, premium seat holders all do business in Dublin - it's the biggest market, the most well supported County - they and hence the GAA want Dublin on the Croke Park ticket for all those benefits. Dublin are the white knight of GAA commercial strategy. It's why the GAA would never let Dublin of the leash and support a DCB stadium in Dublin.
It's part of why the GAA would never split, vehemently Dubs would shun the GAA it would be an organisation of adversary, any brand or sponsor wouldn't want to be associated with an organisation, vilified by the Country biggest market. Therefore it's pie in the sky." Sponsors will not continue giving vast sums of money to any team/s in any competition when that competitions support base falls away.Do you really think any supporters will pay out good money just to witness a coronation....lots have made their decision already and its only a matter of time until the Dubs supporters decide not to witness and support a farce,Where will the sponsorship money go then?....definitely not to GAA football teams.I sincerely hope this doesn't happen but we are well started on the slippery slope.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 04/01/2021 20:07:45
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We've been hearing about the death of football since Kerry's dominance through to Puke Football, via Jim McGuiness, Blanket defence and now Dublin dominance, their always seems to be someone somewhere predicting the asteroid that will take out football.
I just don't see it to be honest, GAA posting record returns pre COVID. Not sure gate receipts are as fundamental as they used to be either. Croke Park, corporate, premium and match day hospitality revenue - excluding the general gate brought in more revenue then all GAA gate receipts pre COVID. GAA revenue streams are becoming more diversified.
Besides you said yourself Dublin is the biggest market, why would continued success see commercial revenue fall, their is a reason why the GAA would do anything to keep Dublin in Croke Park - that I would acknowledge is unfair. It's because brands, sponsors, corporate boxes, premium seat holders all do business in Dublin - it's the biggest market, the most well supported County - they and hence the GAA want Dublin on the Croke Park ticket for all those benefits. Dublin are the white knight of GAA commercial strategy. It's why the GAA would never let Dublin of the leash and support a DCB stadium in Dublin.
It's part of why the GAA would never split, vehemently Dubs would shun the GAA it would be an organisation of adversary, any brand or sponsor wouldn't want to be associated with an organisation, vilified by the Country biggest market. Therefore it's pie in the sky.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3795 - 04/01/2021 19:29:35 Match day hospitality income only some of it goes to GAA. In Croke Park most of the income goes to whoever runs the bars etc which isnt the GAA. Its a company like compass
Gate revenues wouldnt be as fundamental as they used to be but ireland is tiny and there isnt exactly any real overseas income from tv, merchandise or much else so gate receipts matter a lot more than other sports.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3789 - 04/01/2021 20:08:18
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You are correct - they may give a bit less. But they will still give enough to enable them to be that counties main sponsor i.e. AIG will donate more to enable them to be printed on the Dublin jersey.
There is far too much money being spent on preparing county teams at the moment anyway and at least by managing money that way - there is fairness across the board.
It is ridiculous what is happening at the moment all be it not Dublin's fault. It's the GAA that need to act.
hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 275 - 04/01/2021 17:27:04 It wouldnt be a bit less it would be a lot less.
AIG, Teneo, JP McManus Sporting Limerick pay for their name on the jersey and sponsor the team for success. If their money isnt going on the team they are sponsoring its going to be far less of a return on investment so they will be less likely to renew contracts in the future.
By all means put a limit on how much teams can earn from sponsorship but you cant take sponsorship income from one team and give it to the rest,
It's gonna happen but will take a while...probably incrementally the way the GAA do things. Splitting Dublin and having merged teams was officially proposed 19 years ago and Dublin were a little warm to the idea back then.The GAA missed a golden opportunity to restructure Dublin in association with funding at that time.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 539 - 04/01/2021 18:22:13 Splitting dublin and merging other counties isnt going to happen. it goes against everything the gaa is about.
How would it? Dublin would still get the greatest percentage of the pot because they have the highest playing population.
Or it could be done that you only give away, say 80%, of your counties money. Meaning there is still incentive there for counties to look for sponsorship as the 20% they keep will be greater.
Something has to be done anyway, that is just an example.
hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 275 - 04/01/2021 19:02:45But sponsorship will just drop in time as teneo, AIG arent going to sponsor tipp, dublin if the money theyre providing is going to help meath, limerick.
why would AIG give dublin 500'000 if 400'000 was to be given to other counties.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3789 - 04/01/2021 20:13:18
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Replying To TheUsername: "Because there is zero incentive to get a good deal if you give 80% away to enable rivals, a lot of effort, negotiation and strategy goes into these deals, you just wouldn't bother, but be great craic to go back to Arnots. You would just throw all your resources at the next best way of getting revenue in, fundraising or whatever was left to County boards. It's a race the bottom. Won't happen anyway, County's all sign legal contracts with Counties or subsidiaries not with the GAA, contract law, liability etc all comes into play. Besides their is a big difference between equality and equity people don't grasp in these debates.
Only yesterday we saw Cork enter into a multi year arrangement with Sports Direct.
Besides Turkeys dont vote for Xmas, not a chance that would pass in congress." It's not the likes of Cork, Galway Limerick etc that will struggle. It's the smaller counties.
I love the Dublin arrogance - just leave it as it is - it will be grand.
Dublin will win at least 8 out the next 10 if nothing done. No fun in that.
hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 449 - 04/01/2021 20:15:28
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Replying To ONdeDITCH: "Sponsors will not continue giving vast sums of money to any team/s in any competition when that competitions support base falls away.Do you really think any supporters will pay out good money just to witness a coronation....lots have made their decision already and its only a matter of time until the Dubs supporters decide not to witness and support a farce,Where will the sponsorship money go then?....definitely not to GAA football teams.I sincerely hope this doesn't happen but we are well started on the slippery slope." Nah.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4518 - 04/01/2021 20:19:09
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Replying To TheUsername: "We've been hearing about the death of football since Kerry's dominance through to Puke Football, via Jim McGuiness, Blanket defence and now Dublin dominance, their always seems to be someone somewhere predicting the asteroid that will take out football.
I just don't see it to be honest, GAA posting record returns pre COVID. Not sure gate receipts are as fundamental as they used to be either. Croke Park, corporate, premium and match day hospitality revenue - excluding the general gate brought in more revenue then all GAA gate receipts pre COVID. GAA revenue streams are becoming more diversified.
Besides you said yourself Dublin is the biggest market, why would continued success see commercial revenue fall, their is a reason why the GAA would do anything to keep Dublin in Croke Park - that I would acknowledge is unfair. It's because brands, sponsors, corporate boxes, premium seat holders all do business in Dublin - it's the biggest market, the most well supported County - they and hence the GAA want Dublin on the Croke Park ticket for all those benefits. Dublin are the white knight of GAA commercial strategy. It's why the GAA would never let Dublin of the leash and support a DCB stadium in Dublin.
It's part of why the GAA would never split, vehemently Dubs would shun the GAA it would be an organisation of adversary, any brand or sponsor wouldn't want to be associated with an organisation, vilified by the Country biggest market. Therefore it's pie in the sky." I agree with you regarding the GAA and Croke park and revenue.And yes Dublin is a huge market but will not remain a vibrant market with a game/competition which is faltering big time and the support base for the product has and is falling off big time.Its a false premise to suggest that revenue sponsors will continue to support at current levels for a product that is set to become increasingly less popular,they will quickly find an alternative outlet for their marketing.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 04/01/2021 20:21:19
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