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Four Teams Representing Dublin Geographic Area!

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "Most fair-minded people realize that the AI football competition is just not working in its present form.Some posters are of the view that giving less money to Dublin and more cash for the weaker counties will sort the problem.The problem is that since its inception teams representing their counties have been playing in a competition which was unequal and unfair from the off.For far too long too many people have ignored this inequality.The Dublin situation with an unequal Leinster championship has highlighted the shortcomings countrywide.Every young player in every county should have an equal opportunity to play in a team that has an equal and fair chance of being seriously competitive and indeed winning that competition.Surely that should be the watchword of the gaa.It will take time and people with courage and a lot of soul searching and many changes and upheavels but it will surely be worth it when eventually it happens and it has to happen."
There's hardly a sporting competition in the world where every team has an equal chance of winning. Every soccer World Cup has countries who are at a huge disadvantage compared to others, from a population and resources point of view. The same is true of club competitions across soccer, rugby and many more.
American sports, the NFL in particular, is probably the closest in terms of having a level playing, with it's salary caps and draft system of the worst teams getting the first picks. It's a professional sport however and the solutions they use wouldn't be applicable to intercounty GAA, without completely changing the structure as we know it.
As you've mentioned, there is no easy solution to this.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2425 - 02/01/2021 14:39:17    2325785

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Such rubbish. It was rubbish when splitting them in two and just laughable to split them in 4.
If the argument is being made you cant just say Dublin have a million people to pick from. You cant include the 2 guys from my club in Tipp for example, nor can you include the high number of foreigners who work in Dublin who would know nothing about Gaelic games.
If the argument is being made then it needs to be done properly, but I still disagree with it. If you put the Dublin team on Sunday on paper right beside Goochs Kerry team or Trevor Giles' Meath team can you say theyre streets ahead of those teams? They certainly aren't. A top class team no doubt but the other teams are at a low ebb the same way everyone was when KK dominated and Limerick currently appear to be dominating also.

Like Limerick, Dublin are the ultimate team but not exactly individually comparable to the great Kilkenny hurling team. Is the team below full of real stars - probably not but they have more than most. They are a brilliantly trained team tho but not unbeatable if anyone else was anywhere near what they were. For example Tyrone and Mayo are a million miles off their best of recent times. Its a myth to say Dublin are getting stronger because there has deintely been stronger Dublin teams in recent years - and their bench has also been actually stronger I'd argue.

Stephen Cluxton (Parnells)
2. Mick Fitzsimons (Cuala)
3. Jonny Cooper (Na Fianna)
4. Eoin Murchan (Na Fianna)

5. James McCarthy (Ballymun Kickhams)
6. John Small (Ballymun Kickhams)
7. Robbie McDaid (Ballyboden St Endas)

8. Brian Fenton (Raheny)
9. Tom Lahiff (St Jude's)

12. Sean Bugler (St Oliver Plunketts/ER)
11. Ciarán Kilkenny (Castleknock)
10. Niall Scully (Templeogue Synge Street)

13. Paddy Small (Ballymun Kickhams)
14. Con O'Callaghan (Cuala)
15. Dean Rock (Ballymun Kickhams)"
Well of course there is a precedent. On day one in 1884 Tipp, due to that South/North Riding thing, was going to be regarded as two counties, probably like Meath and Westmeath. However Dr Croke Archbishop of Cashel, a Corkman with a West Limerick Protestant mother intervened and insisted that Tipp would get a special dispensation and be regarded as one county. Just for good measure a parish in Offally, Moneygall, of Barrak Obama fame, was also thrown in-oh the generosity of it all. So there you go- there should be no problem splitting Dublin.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4517 - 02/01/2021 14:45:20    2325786

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This cure-all mantra of splitting Dublin is invariably supported by the need to give the weak counties a chance. Can someone please tell me what difference splitting or indeed eliminating Dublin would make to the prospects of say Carlow, Sligo, Leitrim, Waterford or indeed the vast majority of other counties.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 977 - 02/01/2021 18:18:43    2325802

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "There's hardly a sporting competition in the world where every team has an equal chance of winning. Every soccer World Cup has countries who are at a huge disadvantage compared to others, from a population and resources point of view. The same is true of club competitions across soccer, rugby and many more.
American sports, the NFL in particular, is probably the closest in terms of having a level playing, with it's salary caps and draft system of the worst teams getting the first picks. It's a professional sport however and the solutions they use wouldn't be applicable to intercounty GAA, without completely changing the structure as we know it.
As you've mentioned, there is no easy solution to this."
I agree with you,inequality is rampant in sport worldwide but is that a positive...NO.There is little point and no positivity in tacitly accepting that it should remain like that in the GAA.There is a huge problem with inequality and unequal opportunity in the GAA.The current situation with a non competitive and completely lopsided Leinster football championship being highlighted has presented us with an opportunity to have a serious look at the county representative structure countrywide.A courageous and radical solution is required.

The now defunct Railway Cup could be used as the trophy for a trialled competition with the 16 teams ( stand alone and amalgamated) as listed earlier on this thread.It could be trialled for a few years and problems ironed out as it develops.

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 02/01/2021 18:41:19    2325803

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "I agree with you,inequality is rampant in sport worldwide but is that a positive...NO.There is little point and no positivity in tacitly accepting that it should remain like that in the GAA.There is a huge problem with inequality and unequal opportunity in the GAA.The current situation with a non competitive and completely lopsided Leinster football championship being highlighted has presented us with an opportunity to have a serious look at the county representative structure countrywide.A courageous and radical solution is required.

The now defunct Railway Cup could be used as the trophy for a trialled competition with the 16 teams ( stand alone and amalgamated) as listed earlier on this thread.It could be trialled for a few years and problems ironed out as it develops."
Maybe just a cautionary " be careful what you wish for". To alter/hybridise the county based structure would surely be courageous and radical, but would it be wise. The followers of our games are so invested in their County identity, amalgamations, divisions etc might not bring those followers with us?

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 977 - 02/01/2021 19:38:12    2325809

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Maybe just a cautionary " be careful what you wish for". To alter/hybridise the county based structure would surely be courageous and radical, but would it be wise. The followers of our games are so invested in their County identity, amalgamations, divisions etc might not bring those followers with us?"
Well this has all been addressed in the thread earlier.Suffice to state that te county structure would remain as is and amalgamations for the AI football championship only.There would be tiered competitions for teams representing the counties as is now.The exception would be Dublin which would be divided into 4 so four teams representing Dublin in the tiered competitions and two amalgamated teams from Dublin in the AI football competition.

Would you be in favour of the situation continuing as is?

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 02/01/2021 20:31:34    2325810

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Replying To sligo joe:  "This cure-all mantra of splitting Dublin is invariably supported by the need to give the weak counties a chance. Can someone please tell me what difference splitting or indeed eliminating Dublin would make to the prospects of say Carlow, Sligo, Leitrim, Waterford or indeed the vast majority of other counties."
If you were up to speed with the conversation here you would be aware of the amalgamated teams proposal,dividing and diluting Dublin is just one part of the proposal.

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 02/01/2021 20:34:07    2325811

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Well of course there is a precedent. On day one in 1884 Tipp, due to that South/North Riding thing, was going to be regarded as two counties, probably like Meath and Westmeath. However Dr Croke Archbishop of Cashel, a Corkman with a West Limerick Protestant mother intervened and insisted that Tipp would get a special dispensation and be regarded as one county. Just for good measure a parish in Offally, Moneygall, of Barrak Obama fame, was also thrown in-oh the generosity of it all. So there you go- there should be no problem splitting Dublin."
Moneygall is in Co. Offaly. They play GAA in Tipperary. I believe they played in Offaly previously, after the GAA was founded, but switched to Tipperary, with Carrig and Riverstown, although situated in Tipperary, transferred to Offaly, where they still participate.

Former GAA president, the late Seamus O'Riain, was a teacher in Dunkerrin Co. Offaly, but a member of the Moneygall club, so he is regarded as a Tipperary Uachtaran.

MicktheMiller (Offaly) - Posts: 421 - 02/01/2021 20:34:27    2325812

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Maybe just a cautionary " be careful what you wish for". To alter/hybridise the county based structure would surely be courageous and radical, but would it be wise. The followers of our games are so invested in their County identity, amalgamations, divisions etc might not bring those followers with us?"
There has been amalgamations at club level years and it not cause that much trouble. What would be wrong with amalgamations at inter county level.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4517 - 02/01/2021 20:46:42    2325813

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "There has been amalgamations at club level years and it not cause that much trouble. What would be wrong with amalgamations at inter county level."
Has there been big splits of existing clubs within counties solely because they happen to have more people living within their area and therefore have more resources as a result.

How many of the club amalgamations have simply been because without them the clubs would struggle to field at all if they didnt join with someone else?

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3789 - 02/01/2021 21:19:09    2325814

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Has there been big splits of existing clubs within counties solely because they happen to have more people living within their area and therefore have more resources as a result.

How many of the club amalgamations have simply been because without them the clubs would struggle to field at all if they didnt join with someone else?"
The point is amalgamations do and can work.

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 02/01/2021 21:26:53    2325815

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Dividing up Dublin will never happen and wouldn't work anyway, we need a junior intermediate and senior All Ireland format,
There are 3 or 4 teams who are capable of winning Sam Maguire if they get everything right and have a bit of luck,
if you divided Dublin up it would lessen the competition.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3357 - 02/01/2021 21:45:48    2325818

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "If you were up to speed with the conversation here you would be aware of the amalgamated teams proposal,dividing and diluting Dublin is just one part of the proposal."
Living in Sligo and working in Sligo/Leitrim, I can say with certainty the clubs here and the supporters would only agree with amalgamation as a last resort i.e. if they couldn't field a team. As for the Rossies they'd down tools rather than amalgamate.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 977 - 02/01/2021 21:49:40    2325819

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "The point is amalgamations do and can work."
Except its for completely different reasons.
How many of amalgamations at club level are not to do with actually fielding a side altogether.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3789 - 02/01/2021 22:10:26    2325820

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A couple of years ago there were calls from pundits for ulster teams to amalgamate in hurling. I would rather have Antrim hurlers play in the fourth tier as a county than in Laim McCarthy as an amalgamation. Believe 99% of people would say the same.

Brian_Coyote (Antrim) - Posts: 346 - 02/01/2021 22:22:37    2325821

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Living in Sligo and working in Sligo/Leitrim, I can say with certainty the clubs here and the supporters would only agree with amalgamation as a last resort i.e. if they couldn't field a team. As for the Rossies they'd down tools rather than amalgamate."
There's no fear worse than the fear of change itself,we all need to broaden our thought processes and think outside the traditional box and tribalism.
This proposal is to amalgamate teams for the AI championship only,each county would have its own team playing in the tiered competitions.
Not much point in taking part in a competition where you have absolutely no hope of success.In many counties,because of this hopeless situation,very good players will not join county panels.
With an opportunity to play in a more elite level in an amalgamated team and be competitive and harbour genuine hopes of playing and winning an AI football medal,thats something that should trump tribalism.Of course it will/would take time but its possible.
Just imagine an AI football competition with 16 competitive teams and each with a chance of success.

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 02/01/2021 22:31:38    2325822

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Has there been big splits of existing clubs within counties solely because they happen to have more people living within their area and therefore have more resources as a result.

How many of the club amalgamations have simply been because without them the clubs would struggle to field at all if they didnt join with someone else?"
There are several amalgamations in the Kerry Senior Football Champioship and Western Gaels have won both the Senior Football and Hurling Championship in our own county and in both cases the panel was drawn from many vibrant clubs.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4517 - 02/01/2021 23:06:20    2325826

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Replying To MicktheMiller:  "Moneygall is in Co. Offaly. They play GAA in Tipperary. I believe they played in Offaly previously, after the GAA was founded, but switched to Tipperary, with Carrig and Riverstown, although situated in Tipperary, transferred to Offaly, where they still participate.

Former GAA president, the late Seamus O'Riain, was a teacher in Dunkerrin Co. Offaly, but a member of the Moneygall club, so he is regarded as a Tipperary Uachtaran."
Moneygall were runners up to Coolderry in the 1906 Offaly County Final. The transfer to The Premier County was sometime after that year.
Carrig is in Birr parish.

MicktheMiller (Offaly) - Posts: 421 - 02/01/2021 23:17:38    2325828

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Dividing up Dublin will never happen and wouldn't work anyway, we need a junior intermediate and senior All Ireland format,
There are 3 or 4 teams who are capable of winning Sam Maguire if they get everything right and have a bit of luck,
if you divided Dublin up it would lessen the competition."
100% agreed Tirchonaill1

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2850 - 03/01/2021 00:23:35    2325832

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Silly thread , It will never happen .

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2850 - 03/01/2021 00:28:33    2325833

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