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Just from reading the first two/three pages of this thread kinda shows where we are in Meath. There is no sense of consensus among supporters. None at all.
In my own view, these are the facts:
(1) This team, and wider panel is very inexperienced, its also a management team who is inexperienced at this level, albeit with great knowledge of the game. I really feel like supporters like ourselves need to stop comparing this manager to previous managers and players to previous players, it is just apples and oranges because... (2) as well as being a young panel, it is also a panel with a relatively low ceiling. People are right to be happy with the five wins in the Tailteann Cup because we havent experienced five championship wins in maybe 15 years or so, and even that was a one-off. However other people are right in that these victories are against perennial Division 3/4 teams, with the notable exception of Down who have a higher ceiling. I would also say that Antrim played very well last weekend and they could be onto something. Offaly too obviously beat Meath in the Leinster Championship and are at a point where they have 1/2 big games a year in them and Meath got one of them on the day. Plenty of teams are in that category. (3) This team is nowhere close to Division 1 level. They are nowhere close to upper Division 2 level either. At least not consistently... and we have known that about Meath teams long before now. So I just think talking about that and focusing on trying to compete with teams of that level is simply beyond us at the moment, so I dont get the criticism.
The major point is (4); just because this team isnt living up to your 1980s and 1990s Nirvana, doesent make them a bad team, doesent take away from the management, and is really only the fault of the powers in Meath who allowed this decline to come slowly and then all at once from the 2000s and specifically the mid-2010s onwards. These guys are very good (in this level they find themselves in), and they can only beat whats in front of them. It's not Dublin or Kerry and it wont be, maybe ever again, but its progress, and I wish people could just get behind a team and wish well for the players. This is the future of Meath GAA for a while yet; it will be a toss-up between the Tailteann Cup and the Sam Maguire group stages and a mid-lower Division 2 standard and people who cant see that are delusional. Its an aspiration to get into the bigger ranks in the game and it can be done, but for now this is our championship final, and its the only final we can aspire to be in.
One day Meath supporters will wake up and realise the train left the station 20 years ago, and theyre living in a different world now.
Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 589 - 28/06/2023 20:38:56
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Replying To JonnieG: "I knew these permutations before a ball was kicked in the league. I also knew that getting to a Leinster final would keep us in All Ireland series. So it was in their own hands from the start to be honest. Dont finish in the bottom 4 of the league to be guaranteed place in All Ireland and if that fails get to a leinster final. So irrespective of the shambles of the format of the competitions, it was nothing to do with luck! you should be out to guarantee that you do not end up in that position.
I dont believe it is unfair that we ended up there. It was deserved based on our performances.
In fact it makes this years league performance worse than last years from that point of view knowing where we had to finish!" It seems to me that it has only dawned on some people our position in the Gaelic football world because of the new format of the all Ireland championships where w can miss out of the main competition.
GreenMan1987 (Meath) - Posts: 38 - 28/06/2023 22:59:28
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None of us, particularly any of an age to remember the glory days, are happy about where we are, but the writing was on the wall I'm afraid. Andy mc selected a panel of players, didn't really steer to far away from them, got alot out of them, went to the well too often tho, culminating in last years shambles. Anyone that thought any manager was gonna come in and seamlessly transition Meath into even a top div 2 team this season had their head in the sand. What was always going to have to happen was what is happening.... keep a few players, a massive overhaul of most of them, and introduce youth. A few things should have been dealt with better, like mcgill situation. The TC will prove to be very beneficial for these lads, COR isn't going anywhere, there are young men in Meath jerseys in a final in croke park, if you don't like the level we are in...... simple.... just don't go. Turn off the TV and radio and stick the 1999 all ireland final on you tube or something on your phone while the meath down game is on. We are where we are, time to look forward and stop whinging about what we once were. Hard to believe some people in here are comparing average seasons with eachother as some sort of point proving exercise. I didn't think we played particularly well the other day, did enough to get over the line, had a little purple patch and showed character to kick 2 crucial scores at the end..... anybody with a decent memory and honesty will tell ya that's basically what we done for 15 years of success....we weren't all singing and all dancing football machine, bar a few standout games
southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 892 - 29/06/2023 07:52:15
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Replying To Young_gael: "Just from reading the first two/three pages of this thread kinda shows where we are in Meath. There is no sense of consensus among supporters. None at all.
In my own view, these are the facts:
(1) This team, and wider panel is very inexperienced, its also a management team who is inexperienced at this level, albeit with great knowledge of the game. I really feel like supporters like ourselves need to stop comparing this manager to previous managers and players to previous players, it is just apples and oranges because... (2) as well as being a young panel, it is also a panel with a relatively low ceiling. People are right to be happy with the five wins in the Tailteann Cup because we havent experienced five championship wins in maybe 15 years or so, and even that was a one-off. However other people are right in that these victories are against perennial Division 3/4 teams, with the notable exception of Down who have a higher ceiling. I would also say that Antrim played very well last weekend and they could be onto something. Offaly too obviously beat Meath in the Leinster Championship and are at a point where they have 1/2 big games a year in them and Meath got one of them on the day. Plenty of teams are in that category. (3) This team is nowhere close to Division 1 level. They are nowhere close to upper Division 2 level either. At least not consistently... and we have known that about Meath teams long before now. So I just think talking about that and focusing on trying to compete with teams of that level is simply beyond us at the moment, so I dont get the criticism.
The major point is (4); just because this team isnt living up to your 1980s and 1990s Nirvana, doesent make them a bad team, doesent take away from the management, and is really only the fault of the powers in Meath who allowed this decline to come slowly and then all at once from the 2000s and specifically the mid-2010s onwards. These guys are very good (in this level they find themselves in), and they can only beat whats in front of them. It's not Dublin or Kerry and it wont be, maybe ever again, but its progress, and I wish people could just get behind a team and wish well for the players. This is the future of Meath GAA for a while yet; it will be a toss-up between the Tailteann Cup and the Sam Maguire group stages and a mid-lower Division 2 standard and people who cant see that are delusional. Its an aspiration to get into the bigger ranks in the game and it can be done, but for now this is our championship final, and its the only final we can aspire to be in.
One day Meath supporters will wake up and realise the train left the station 20 years ago, and theyre living in a different world now." Agreed Comparing this manager to the last is a waste of time .This poster will admit to getting some amusement value from it. Yes its boring now and comparing apples with oranges is stupid anyway. From here i would think this comparison GAME should be ignored . You are correct this is a long term job where inexperience will impact on progress rate. Personally, i am awaiting the addition that Colm mentioned to the back room team. in the hope that needs will be fully dealt with. I do still believe that posters have every right to attempt to be constructive .In my view that is what this forum is all about .Agendas serve no purpose constructively. Best of luick to Colm and the lads from here
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1228 - 29/06/2023 11:34:08
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It seems a few parents of these young lads have entered the chat! :) That was a joke...no offence!
Anyone here who is happy to see Meath "rebuild", "transition", "experiment" "bring in a load of young lads because the current crop are no good" year on year are really supporting the wrong team in my opinion. Maybe you are better off going to some minor matches and development squad matches or even stop going after the O'Byrne Cup. Not the Senior intercounty league and championship matches. Im sick of the same argument every year! For the last 15 years!! Surely its time to stop all that nonsense!!
Senior Intercounty players are already adults and supposedly the best ones in the county. You have them from November and you get them playing a system thats good enough to win matches. you play challenges, O'byrne Cups and have about 35 sessions until the League. And league is for tweaking and winning at all costs. The majority of the work should have been done at that stage!
We beat hammered Cork and beat Clare in the first 2 league matches and Cork are now in a QF!! We didnt win a proper match after that! Why?? Maybe we brought in too many young lads after that!!
As I said before the TC has masked our lack of progress! I am not one for celebrating mediocrity. I want my county team to be winning at the top level because I believe that's where they should be. I actually think they have the players but not playing to their potential! And that goes for this year too. Good defenders leaking massive scores week in week out!! That doesnt take a year to build!
So it seems people have accepted that out players are just not good enough! And that goes for the crop under Mcentee too. And that they are happy to see us maybe go to Div 3 or 4 so we can win a few matches before we grow older.
I disagree with that level of acceptance. I believe a good coach would transform these players and i believe they are already talented enough to be coached!
I have said it already that if we had that coach in this year we would have been looking at promotion in Div 2 and would have taken a scalp or 2 in the A/I series!!
JonnieG (Meath) - Posts: 220 - 29/06/2023 13:03:01
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I see in outright betting Down are 4/9 and Meath are 13/8. Thoughts?
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1365 - 29/06/2023 14:10:53
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Replying To bdbuddah: "I see in outright betting Down are 4/9 and Meath are 13/8. Thoughts?" Based on the weekends performances, you'd have to say that's about right..
Ed2010 (Meath) - Posts: 93 - 29/06/2023 16:01:46
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Replying To bdbuddah: "I see in outright betting Down are 4/9 and Meath are 13/8. Thoughts?" I'd probably have it more Meath 6/4, Down 8/11, but they are justifiable favourites from what we seen
hyperache (Meath) - Posts: 209 - 29/06/2023 16:05:56
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Replying To southmeathgael: "None of us, particularly any of an age to remember the glory days, are happy about where we are, but the writing was on the wall I'm afraid. Andy mc selected a panel of players, didn't really steer to far away from them, got alot out of them, went to the well too often tho, culminating in last years shambles. Anyone that thought any manager was gonna come in and seamlessly transition Meath into even a top div 2 team this season had their head in the sand. What was always going to have to happen was what is happening.... keep a few players, a massive overhaul of most of them, and introduce youth. A few things should have been dealt with better, like mcgill situation. The TC will prove to be very beneficial for these lads, COR isn't going anywhere, there are young men in Meath jerseys in a final in croke park, if you don't like the level we are in...... simple.... just don't go. Turn off the TV and radio and stick the 1999 all ireland final on you tube or something on your phone while the meath down game is on. We are where we are, time to look forward and stop whinging about what we once were. Hard to believe some people in here are comparing average seasons with eachother as some sort of point proving exercise. I didn't think we played particularly well the other day, did enough to get over the line, had a little purple patch and showed character to kick 2 crucial scores at the end..... anybody with a decent memory and honesty will tell ya that's basically what we done for 15 years of success....we weren't all singing and all dancing football machine, bar a few standout games" Good post, same for Greenman87, its all about now and looking backwards will do us no favours, neither will projecting the doom and gloom that awaits us next year. Mention of rebuilding, something that happens in every team sport, seems to get some very worked up. We have seen this process in Meath before, 92-96 a perfect example. Last day out was a mixed bag, some great attacking play and decent defence and some poor play at other times, but held their nerve to see it out. We have been in a type of Limbo for years now and this is the chance to get things right. Management or panel will pay little heed to the merchants of doom and get on with what they set out to do.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2152 - 29/06/2023 17:47:24
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Replying To bdbuddah: "I see in outright betting Down are 4/9 and Meath are 13/8. Thoughts?" Justified based on last weeks performance and they kicking 16 wides last day we played.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 29/06/2023 19:39:41
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Replying To JonnieG: "It seems a few parents of these young lads have entered the chat! :) That was a joke...no offence!
Anyone here who is happy to see Meath "rebuild", "transition", "experiment" "bring in a load of young lads because the current crop are no good" year on year are really supporting the wrong team in my opinion. Maybe you are better off going to some minor matches and development squad matches or even stop going after the O'Byrne Cup. Not the Senior intercounty league and championship matches. Im sick of the same argument every year! For the last 15 years!! Surely its time to stop all that nonsense!!
Senior Intercounty players are already adults and supposedly the best ones in the county. You have them from November and you get them playing a system thats good enough to win matches. you play challenges, O'byrne Cups and have about 35 sessions until the League. And league is for tweaking and winning at all costs. The majority of the work should have been done at that stage!
We beat hammered Cork and beat Clare in the first 2 league matches and Cork are now in a QF!! We didnt win a proper match after that! Why?? Maybe we brought in too many young lads after that!!
As I said before the TC has masked our lack of progress! I am not one for celebrating mediocrity. I want my county team to be winning at the top level because I believe that's where they should be. I actually think they have the players but not playing to their potential! And that goes for this year too. Good defenders leaking massive scores week in week out!! That doesnt take a year to build!
So it seems people have accepted that out players are just not good enough! And that goes for the crop under Mcentee too. And that they are happy to see us maybe go to Div 3 or 4 so we can win a few matches before we grow older.
I disagree with that level of acceptance. I believe a good coach would transform these players and i believe they are already talented enough to be coached!
I have said it already that if we had that coach in this year we would have been looking at promotion in Div 2 and would have taken a scalp or 2 in the A/I series!!" Coulda shoulda woulda ifs and buts.
Things make more sense if you deal with realities.
Should be a separate thread for people who want to live in this parallel universe where Meath should be still competing for Sam just because.
Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 29/06/2023 21:32:07
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Replying To bdbuddah: "I see in outright betting Down are 4/9 and Meath are 13/8. Thoughts?" Think that's about right.
I'd definitely have them as favourites.
They look like a team that are built for Croke park. Their pace could kill us on the counter. It's a long time since we performed in HQ as well as they did last week.
I think if we win it'll have been a dour game similar to the group game a few weeks ago. We can't rely on them kicking 16/17 wides again but we need to be really well set defensively.
Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 29/06/2023 21:37:18
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Replying To Greenfield: "Think that's about right.
I'd definitely have them as favourites.
They look like a team that are built for Croke park. Their pace could kill us on the counter. It's a long time since we performed in HQ as well as they did last week.
I think if we win it'll have been a dour game similar to the group game a few weeks ago. We can't rely on them kicking 16/17 wides again but we need to be really well set defensively." Yeah definitely defending is the key priority. Keep harnan coffee and keoghan back no up field runs. Hate harping back to it but it's games like this where McGill and lavin are sorely missed
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 30/06/2023 08:25:40
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Replying To Greenfield: "Coulda shoulda woulda ifs and buts.
Things make more sense if you deal with realities.
Should be a separate thread for people who want to live in this parallel universe where Meath should be still competing for Sam just because." Fully agree
According to some the VAST majority of posters would be on that thread!!
royalproxy (Meath) - Posts: 30 - 30/06/2023 08:38:32
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Replying To royaldunne: "Yeah definitely defending is the key priority. Keep harnan coffee and keoghan back no up field runs. Hate harping back to it but it's games like this where McGill and lavin are sorely missed" Ref McGill, I think that after the TC final is out of the way we will be heading into the planning for next year. Colm may change around his backroom staff. At some stage over the next few months an approach should be made to see if we can get McGill back into the fold. If that doesnt work out then draw a line in the sand and move on.
Ref Lavin, whats the situ with him? Injured or away?
stillaroyal (Meath) - Posts: 224 - 30/06/2023 10:06:12
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Lads off topic, and might been discussed elsewhere but what's story with Tickets for tc Final , been to most games so far through supervalu/centra , is this still the same. I'm guessing not with a senior semi on afterwards.
Jimmycricket (Meath) - Posts: 113 - 30/06/2023 11:08:02
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Any word of the first round of championship games being pushed back to accommodate county players coming back to clubs?
RoyalGael14 (Meath) - Posts: 2 - 30/06/2023 11:40:15
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Replying To RoyalGael14: "Any word of the first round of championship games being pushed back to accommodate county players coming back to clubs?" The senior and intermediate is 2 weeks after the final so I don't see why they would be moved back.
But I heard the first round of the junior will be moved to mid week on the week of 17th July.
Can anyone confirm?
ChampSunday (Meath) - Posts: 11 - 30/06/2023 12:22:05
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Replying To RoyalGael14: "Any word of the first round of championship games being pushed back to accommodate county players coming back to clubs?" No and their shouldn't be any discussion on it.
What about all the club players who will have planned their holidays etc around the dates for championship so that they don't miss any games. It can't just revolve around the 25/30 county players when there a couple of hundred other players to consider.
Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 872 - 30/06/2023 12:29:56
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Replying To Blackspot09: "No and their shouldn't be any discussion on it.
What about all the club players who will have planned their holidays etc around the dates for championship so that they don't miss any games. It can't just revolve around the 25/30 county players when there a couple of hundred other players to consider." Couldn't disagree more. You will find that most club players would be happy for the championship to be pushed back two weeks as it will give them more time to prepare with their county players coming back. Two weeks (only 10 days for some) between the county season finishing and club championships starting is not fair on anyone and should never have been scheduled to start this early. Why are Meath the only county in Ireland starting club championships on the weekend of the All Ireland Football Final? What is the rush? The county players themselves should not be expected to step straight back in without any break at all. When are they supposed to get a break and then when are clubs supposed to be able to prepare properly with their full squads? As usual though, silence and ignorance from the Meath CCC. How difficult would it be just to push things back two weeks on an excel?
Why is every adult competition in Meath played in such a rush? 11 rounds of league matches plus 3/5 cup games all crammed in between February and middle of June is to much with 95% of these games played without county players and on poor pitches in bad weather. Clubs are now even playing League finals without their county players. The cup games need to be done away and the A Leagues need to start a month later, and consider getting rid of league finals and have the team that finished top of the table league winners. Its a called a 'league' for a reason. Leave January, February and March free from Adult club fixtures like what most counties are doing now as pitches are in bits this time of year and their is enough going on with college/school matches/U20 etc that time of year. Start the A and B Leagues (return to B Leagues instead of premier) at the end of March and finish them in July. Then start your club championships the first or second weekend of August. This will allow county players get a bit of a break between the county season finishing and club championship starting and it will also allow players go on J1's without the prospect of missing championship matches. Meath want to improve club football in the county supposedly. Well the way it is being run at the moment, they are doing their best to turn players away from it. The season is far to long and it is no longer realistic to ask a club player to make themselves available from January until October/November anymore. We want to encourage players to play for their clubs, not the opposite.
BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 937 - 30/06/2023 13:40:36
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