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Lads, it doesn't even take stats of ours and other county championships to realise that our format is the most shambolic in the country. Usually I'd like to back things up with evidence (as has already been done above) but we're in such a dire situation we don't even need to see that. It's a complete and utter laughing stock and I'd imagine if anyone started a thread on the countrywide forum asking for opinions we'd be laughed at.
If the Kerry system is good enough for them then it's certainly good enough for us. The best players deserve an opportunity to play senior football. I still wonder how much playing junior B football affected the development of Adam Flanagan and Chris O'Connor. Outstanding players but could have been even better.
The first step to solving our problems should be 16 teams with 4 groups of 4 is the best way to go. Top 2 in each group get through the quarter finals. Bottom teams in relegation play-offs. Then at a later date we must look at divisional teams being added in.
I remember being 16 in 2009 watching Meath SFC games and wondering why the hell there was a preliminary QF. Even at that age I realised it was stupid. It's not like it's a bumper fixture they'll bring a lot of money into Meath football. The Meath county board and club delegates are to blame for this shambles of a situation.
JulianstownBoyo (Meath) - Posts: 196 - 29/08/2017 19:40:27
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When I hear this discussion about changing the championship structure I just have to laugh. It does not matter what the championship structure you run , 99% of all structures work if you have great county players and an abundance of really good club players making the championship competitive. Tyrone won in 2003, 2005 and 2008 and there Senior League and Senior Championship was champagne football week in and week out. Ultra competitive and massive crowds going to League games. In Meath clubs are simply not producing enough top players out of their respective schools. End of story.
Talk all you want, but asking for a restructure of the championship is like a club team in a relegation battle asking to get rid of the manager. Its always the manager to be blame, but in almost all cases teams are in Division 2 at National League and almost in Division 3 for a reason. There is simply not enough quality in the County.
And to finish look at Monaghan. Once Scotstown and few other clubs came good again at Senior Level and started producing top players, so to did the County Team. Did Monagahn change their championship in those interim years. Answer is no. Clubs worked harder to produce better club players. Scotstown made to he Ulster Final too. So we need to stop looking for excuses in Meath and thinking changing the championship structure is going to fix our ails. Its not. Clubs just need to get the finger out
Talking_Sense (Meath) - Posts: 209 - 29/08/2017 22:58:32
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Replying To Talking_Sense: "When I hear this discussion about changing the championship structure I just have to laugh. It does not matter what the championship structure you run , 99% of all structures work if you have great county players and an abundance of really good club players making the championship competitive. Tyrone won in 2003, 2005 and 2008 and there Senior League and Senior Championship was champagne football week in and week out. Ultra competitive and massive crowds going to League games. In Meath clubs are simply not producing enough top players out of their respective schools. End of story.
Talk all you want, but asking for a restructure of the championship is like a club team in a relegation battle asking to get rid of the manager. Its always the manager to be blame, but in almost all cases teams are in Division 2 at National League and almost in Division 3 for a reason. There is simply not enough quality in the County.
And to finish look at Monaghan. Once Scotstown and few other clubs came good again at Senior Level and started producing top players, so to did the County Team. Did Monagahn change their championship in those interim years. Answer is no. Clubs worked harder to produce better club players. Scotstown made to he Ulster Final too. So we need to stop looking for excuses in Meath and thinking changing the championship structure is going to fix our ails. Its not. Clubs just need to get the finger out" fair points,how do you suggest clubs should do that?
ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 30/08/2017 23:18:38
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Replying To Talking_Sense: "When I hear this discussion about changing the championship structure I just have to laugh. It does not matter what the championship structure you run , 99% of all structures work if you have great county players and an abundance of really good club players making the championship competitive. Tyrone won in 2003, 2005 and 2008 and there Senior League and Senior Championship was champagne football week in and week out. Ultra competitive and massive crowds going to League games. In Meath clubs are simply not producing enough top players out of their respective schools. End of story.
Talk all you want, but asking for a restructure of the championship is like a club team in a relegation battle asking to get rid of the manager. Its always the manager to be blame, but in almost all cases teams are in Division 2 at National League and almost in Division 3 for a reason. There is simply not enough quality in the County.
And to finish look at Monaghan. Once Scotstown and few other clubs came good again at Senior Level and started producing top players, so to did the County Team. Did Monagahn change their championship in those interim years. Answer is no. Clubs worked harder to produce better club players. Scotstown made to he Ulster Final too. So we need to stop looking for excuses in Meath and thinking changing the championship structure is going to fix our ails. Its not. Clubs just need to get the finger out" To be honest I think you are looking at this the wrong way. For me personally, a restructure is needed within the county not only to make championships more competitive but to create a better planner for the county board and players to work off. As it stands, it's a constant battle for clubs over there county players (albeit they're not as good as these Tyrone or Monaghan players you have mentioned) getting proper time to prepare for their championships. There is too much respect given to the demands handed to county players when they go back to their clubs and if realistically we are going to try and compete again in Leinster or for an All-Ireland then the root of trying to prepare better county players for the future has to start with the club. Meath haven't been competitive for a long time now and when the demise started, that was when the club championship should have been fixed. Hurling has suffered for a long time also and there are players that not only get very little time to prepare with their clubs for football championship, but simply not allowed to play hurling championship as duel players. Playing both games is commendable enough along with representing our county, but with the way everything is structured, it's nearly impossible to see where the county footballers are going to improve. I can imagine it's a constant headache for the county board and I empathise with them hugely but I'm sure if they were asked, 90% of them would agree that something needs to change.
bowza123 (Meath) - Posts: 42 - 01/09/2017 11:38:34
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Good discussion. Fairly obvious from the opinions raised here that something has to change. While some clubs will always work hard to produce good footballers and others simply won't, our current championship structures certainly do not encourage productivity. A lot of clubs have a really lax mentality of "sure we'll be grand" and assume things will work out which they generally do. There's no fear of failure in Meath club football. On another note I wonder are the cb reluctant to change the current format because it is likely to reduce the number of games, and therefore gates... Especially with the big pt project on the horizon
MarkMyWords (Meath) - Posts: 498 - 01/09/2017 15:31:52
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Club captains being invited for a discussion on the new proposals tonight. Great idea, lads actually playing the game should have the biggest say on how their game is ran. Like the look of the proposed format surely this will be voted in. At this stage change is a necessity
Northsidegaels (Meath) - Posts: 237 - 26/09/2018 16:28:09
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The proposals are pretty radical in one way, but not enough in another. I suppose after the last set of changes were brought down they had to try something less dramatic.
My biggest issue is that it still panders to the clubs who only want to win 1 game a year to stay in their division, by kicking 2nd teams out, having a 20 team intermediate etc. you're diluting the quality of games that teams get.
Also I take it St. Pauls will be promoted to Junior A in these plans?! I know you can't base the county's structures around one desperate case, but that's a terrible idea.
CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1646 - 26/09/2018 17:51:28
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Replying To Talking_Sense: "When I hear this discussion about changing the championship structure I just have to laugh. It does not matter what the championship structure you run , 99% of all structures work if you have great county players and an abundance of really good club players making the championship competitive. Tyrone won in 2003, 2005 and 2008 and there Senior League and Senior Championship was champagne football week in and week out. Ultra competitive and massive crowds going to League games. In Meath clubs are simply not producing enough top players out of their respective schools. End of story.
Talk all you want, but asking for a restructure of the championship is like a club team in a relegation battle asking to get rid of the manager. Its always the manager to be blame, but in almost all cases teams are in Division 2 at National League and almost in Division 3 for a reason. There is simply not enough quality in the County.
And to finish look at Monaghan. Once Scotstown and few other clubs came good again at Senior Level and started producing top players, so to did the County Team. Did Monagahn change their championship in those interim years. Answer is no. Clubs worked harder to produce better club players. Scotstown made to he Ulster Final too. So we need to stop looking for excuses in Meath and thinking changing the championship structure is going to fix our ails. Its not. Clubs just need to get the finger out" Totally agree with this. As a person who has seen all types of club championship structures including a 16 club championship in Meath it makes no difference to producing better quality football players in the county. How would it-people talk about a 16 team championship would be more competitive etc-rubbish. All this proposal does is make it easier to organise club football in the county by reducing the number of competitive championship games for club players. This is all about reducing the amount of games clubs have with their county players. I do agree with bringing regional teams into the senior set up but why not make the championship a 20 team championship -four groups of five with sixteen senior clubs and four regional teams. That would be a worthwhile trial.
Poormouth (Meath) - Posts: 204 - 26/09/2018 17:56:58
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Replying To Poormouth: "Totally agree with this. As a person who has seen all types of club championship structures including a 16 club championship in Meath it makes no difference to producing better quality football players in the county. How would it-people talk about a 16 team championship would be more competitive etc-rubbish. All this proposal does is make it easier to organise club football in the county by reducing the number of competitive championship games for club players. This is all about reducing the amount of games clubs have with their county players. I do agree with bringing regional teams into the senior set up but why not make the championship a 20 team championship -four groups of five with sixteen senior clubs and four regional teams. That would be a worthwhile trial." Would be great but how could players play junior championship for their clubs at the same time as senior championship with their divisional teams?
Northsidegaels (Meath) - Posts: 237 - 26/09/2018 18:42:49
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Replying To JulianstownBoyo: "Lads, it doesn't even take stats of ours and other county championships to realise that our format is the most shambolic in the country. Usually I'd like to back things up with evidence (as has already been done above) but we're in such a dire situation we don't even need to see that. It's a complete and utter laughing stock and I'd imagine if anyone started a thread on the countrywide forum asking for opinions we'd be laughed at.
If the Kerry system is good enough for them then it's certainly good enough for us. The best players deserve an opportunity to play senior football. I still wonder how much playing junior B football affected the development of Adam Flanagan and Chris O'Connor. Outstanding players but could have been even better.
The first step to solving our problems should be 16 teams with 4 groups of 4 is the best way to go. Top 2 in each group get through the quarter finals. Bottom teams in relegation play-offs. Then at a later date we must look at divisional teams being added in.
I remember being 16 in 2009 watching Meath SFC games and wondering why the hell there was a preliminary QF. Even at that age I realised it was stupid. It's not like it's a bumper fixture they'll bring a lot of money into Meath football. The Meath county board and club delegates are to blame for this shambles of a situation." I agree with this post. But most of all the 4 groups of 4. Top 2 going on to quarter finals and the bottom 2 doing the reverse to decide what club is relegated. Maybe after a few years we could introduce Divisional teams. The current proposals have 6 or 8 which I think is too many. Four Divisional teams would make it a competitive championship. But that is well into the future as delegates would not go for it. Like having 16 Senior and 16 Junior teams in the respective championships but 20 in Intermediate does not make sense and the document accepts this but simply states that it is the only number that they feel will be passed. So they accept that a better structure is not on delegates minds but narrow vested interests. A bunch of Nero's sing while Rome is burning.
MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1066 - 26/09/2018 18:53:36
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Replying To Talking_Sense: "When I hear this discussion about changing the championship structure I just have to laugh. It does not matter what the championship structure you run , 99% of all structures work if you have great county players and an abundance of really good club players making the championship competitive. Tyrone won in 2003, 2005 and 2008 and there Senior League and Senior Championship was champagne football week in and week out. Ultra competitive and massive crowds going to League games. In Meath clubs are simply not producing enough top players out of their respective schools. End of story.
Talk all you want, but asking for a restructure of the championship is like a club team in a relegation battle asking to get rid of the manager. Its always the manager to be blame, but in almost all cases teams are in Division 2 at National League and almost in Division 3 for a reason. There is simply not enough quality in the County.
And to finish look at Monaghan. Once Scotstown and few other clubs came good again at Senior Level and started producing top players, so to did the County Team. Did Monagahn change their championship in those interim years. Answer is no. Clubs worked harder to produce better club players. Scotstown made to he Ulster Final too. So we need to stop looking for excuses in Meath and thinking changing the championship structure is going to fix our ails. Its not. Clubs just need to get the finger out" If the structure doesn't matter and 99% of them work then why don't we change it up and let's see if it helps it can't hurt
But we all know people who are against change are the ones from clubs that are afraid their club will be the one affected simple as that
They would rather keep it as is just so they can stay in a grade they are barley surviving in
head4dblackspot (Meath) - Posts: 513 - 26/09/2018 21:51:08
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Replying To Northsidegaels: "Club captains being invited for a discussion on the new proposals tonight. Great idea, lads actually playing the game should have the biggest say on how their game is ran. Like the look of the proposed format surely this will be voted in. At this stage change is a necessity" Don't agree with the idea that the players should have the biggest say at all. Why do you think the players have all the answers? Why not ask spectators what kinds of competitions they want to watch? Why not bring in the captains of under 16 teams to say what kind of game they'd like to be playing in 10 years time? Your playing years are a small portion of your GAA life and some of those whose opinions are so valued may not even be playing in a couple of years time.
Think it highlights a real lack of vision on the part of the commitee. They should have been able to come up with a structure that can be sold to the Meath GAA community as a whole. Of course it could be just so they can say "well the players came up with this" if it goes wrong.
Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 27/09/2018 17:15:14
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It's a mess and needs to change asap. But I can't see it happening soon.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 27/09/2018 20:16:00
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Replying To Greenfield: "Don't agree with the idea that the players should have the biggest say at all. Why do you think the players have all the answers? Why not ask spectators what kinds of competitions they want to watch? Why not bring in the captains of under 16 teams to say what kind of game they'd like to be playing in 10 years time? Your playing years are a small portion of your GAA life and some of those whose opinions are so valued may not even be playing in a couple of years time.
Think it highlights a real lack of vision on the part of the commitee. They should have been able to come up with a structure that can be sold to the Meath GAA community as a whole. Of course it could be just so they can say "well the players came up with this" if it goes wrong." Nobody has all the answers but the resons why player opinions are more important than spectators or U16's players is because they are the ones who are actually playing the games at the minute and the ones we want to keep playing them for as long as possible. Underage players have no guarantee they will actually move on to play adult football and asking spectators is clearly far to messy and wide a scope. Also the players are only asked for their opinions, they're not making any actually decisions, that still gets done by delegate voting at county board meetings.
I think overall the plan is better than whats in place at the minute, but still feel there are to many league games and the season is to long for players, but its a step in the right direction and players knowing that Championship football starts in August and is played every 2nd week straight throough with no gaps is what they all want.
ratlag (Meath) - Posts: 557 - 28/09/2018 09:16:55
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Replying To Greenfield: "Don't agree with the idea that the players should have the biggest say at all. Why do you think the players have all the answers? Why not ask spectators what kinds of competitions they want to watch? Why not bring in the captains of under 16 teams to say what kind of game they'd like to be playing in 10 years time? Your playing years are a small portion of your GAA life and some of those whose opinions are so valued may not even be playing in a couple of years time.
Think it highlights a real lack of vision on the part of the commitee. They should have been able to come up with a structure that can be sold to the Meath GAA community as a whole. Of course it could be just so they can say "well the players came up with this" if it goes wrong." Shocking but typical auld gaa attitude there, sure the players are only servents to the wider gaa audience, mere commodities that should know their place and keep quiet. The club reps had a meeting last week and then club captains invited for a meeting Tuesday but maybe your right maybe its a very bad idea to have the people playing the matches and competitions discussing how and when they'd like to play these matches and competitions!! I feel for the players today to think they don't have a fixture list to depend upon is unfair
Northsidegaels (Meath) - Posts: 237 - 28/09/2018 10:55:32
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Replying To Northsidegaels: "Shocking but typical auld gaa attitude there, sure the players are only servents to the wider gaa audience, mere commodities that should know their place and keep quiet. The club reps had a meeting last week and then club captains invited for a meeting Tuesday but maybe your right maybe its a very bad idea to have the people playing the matches and competitions discussing how and when they'd like to play these matches and competitions!! I feel for the players today to think they don't have a fixture list to depend upon is unfair" I don't know how you picked up that I suggested the players should keep quiet. Of course they should have a voice. I disagreed with your original point that the players should have the biggest say in what happens. Players are players for now and in a number of years the next generation will take their place. I think you need vision and leadership to produce a format that attracts people to play GAA games for generations to come. By giving the main voice to people who are mainly interested in the present moment and what affects them, I think you will only come up with a short term solution.
This shouldn't be rocket science as there are examples of quality competitive championships all around the country.
People keep mentioning the format they use in Kerry and it obviously is a good structure as it produces quality players consistently. I'd be curious to know when the structures in Kerry were last revamped.
Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 28/09/2018 11:50:44
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Replying To Greenfield: "I don't know how you picked up that I suggested the players should keep quiet. Of course they should have a voice. I disagreed with your original point that the players should have the biggest say in what happens. Players are players for now and in a number of years the next generation will take their place. I think you need vision and leadership to produce a format that attracts people to play GAA games for generations to come. By giving the main voice to people who are mainly interested in the present moment and what affects them, I think you will only come up with a short term solution.
This shouldn't be rocket science as there are examples of quality competitive championships all around the country.
People keep mentioning the format they use in Kerry and it obviously is a good structure as it produces quality players consistently. I'd be curious to know when the structures in Kerry were last revamped." I think the idea of giving the current crop of players a big say is because they will be closest in opinion/mindsent to the next generation and best able to get a system in place. Certainly moreso than club delegates who for the most part havent played football in probably 20-30 years!!
A perfect plan isn't going to be made in one attempt, I can see more changes being made over the next 10-15 years but the point is that it is a start and a step in the right direction, to keep lads interested in playing and not leaving for other sports where there is a more definite structure to the year such as soccer and rugby.
ratlag (Meath) - Posts: 557 - 28/09/2018 12:19:52
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Replying To Greenfield: "I don't know how you picked up that I suggested the players should keep quiet. Of course they should have a voice. I disagreed with your original point that the players should have the biggest say in what happens. Players are players for now and in a number of years the next generation will take their place. I think you need vision and leadership to produce a format that attracts people to play GAA games for generations to come. By giving the main voice to people who are mainly interested in the present moment and what affects them, I think you will only come up with a short term solution.
This shouldn't be rocket science as there are examples of quality competitive championships all around the country.
People keep mentioning the format they use in Kerry and it obviously is a good structure as it produces quality players consistently. I'd be curious to know when the structures in Kerry were last revamped." Again people on here seem to suggest that by copying a senior championship structure such as Kerry will produce quality players. Really this is all nonsense talk. Quality players are not developed by senior championship structures. They come from really good underage structures that keep quality players involved with the GAA until adulthood. In Kerry many of the best underage players continue to play into adulthood because the game is loved in that part of the country. It was the same in Meath for a while going back but in the last 20 years on so many of our best underage athletes give it up at around 16 or 18. Coming up with a structure that would keep our best underage players involved is much more important than fiddling with championship structures.
Poormouth (Meath) - Posts: 204 - 28/09/2018 13:21:45
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Replying To ratlag: "I think the idea of giving the current crop of players a big say is because they will be closest in opinion/mindsent to the next generation and best able to get a system in place. Certainly moreso than club delegates who for the most part havent played football in probably 20-30 years!!
A perfect plan isn't going to be made in one attempt, I can see more changes being made over the next 10-15 years but the point is that it is a start and a step in the right direction, to keep lads interested in playing and not leaving for other sports where there is a more definite structure to the year such as soccer and rugby." i take your point.
but i still don't write off what people have to offer due to it being a long time since they played. interesting you use 20-30 years as that is back when we were last producing strong county teams (although i accept that it was a different time and maybe not so relevant to our current position).
you are right that this is a step in the right direction.
Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 28/09/2018 14:41:34
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Replying To Poormouth: "Again people on here seem to suggest that by copying a senior championship structure such as Kerry will produce quality players. Really this is all nonsense talk. Quality players are not developed by senior championship structures. They come from really good underage structures that keep quality players involved with the GAA until adulthood. In Kerry many of the best underage players continue to play into adulthood because the game is loved in that part of the country. It was the same in Meath for a while going back but in the last 20 years on so many of our best underage athletes give it up at around 16 or 18. Coming up with a structure that would keep our best underage players involved is much more important than fiddling with championship structures." Nonsense talk might be a bit strong, but I agree that this is not the silver bullet that will fix all of our ills. I don't think there is any argument though that quality players will not be helped by playing a better standard of football.
A system like in Kerry where everyone, no matter what club, has a chance to play senior football seems sensible. Also a limit on the number of senior clubs keeps the lower grade chamionships strong as well as making sure the top level is not diluted.
I'm not sure what kind of a structure can be put in place to keep the best players involved although I do think the schools system is where the focus should be. What do you suggest?
Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 28/09/2018 14:50:01
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