Cavan Forum

ACFL Delayed

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It would appear that the club players are once again being treated as second class citizens.
The league was scheduled to start on 12th March, but is now pushed back until 8th April because of the re-fixed Tyrone v Cavan game.
With the rain that fell overnight on Saturday/Sunday last, an early pitch inspection would have indicated that the game would not go ahead and an alternative location found. They moved an u21 ulster semi a few years ago at short notice so why was it not done last week.
The GAA is more and more concerned with the elite games ad was demonstrated by the Super 8 which will create more games, causing more havoc to the club scene.
County players only account for a small percentage of the players in this country. The CPA needs more support to make their voice heard and prevent the club player, the grass roots on which the organization is built, from being messed around.

FrDougalMaguire (Cavan) - Posts: 152 - 01/03/2017 14:13:01    1962482

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Replying To FrDougalMaguire:  "It would appear that the club players are once again being treated as second class citizens.
The league was scheduled to start on 12th March, but is now pushed back until 8th April because of the re-fixed Tyrone v Cavan game.
With the rain that fell overnight on Saturday/Sunday last, an early pitch inspection would have indicated that the game would not go ahead and an alternative location found. They moved an u21 ulster semi a few years ago at short notice so why was it not done last week.
The GAA is more and more concerned with the elite games ad was demonstrated by the Super 8 which will create more games, causing more havoc to the club scene.
County players only account for a small percentage of the players in this country. The CPA needs more support to make their voice heard and prevent the club player, the grass roots on which the organization is built, from being messed around."
Time for club players to stand up and be counted...Players need to realise that its not just County Boards that make these decisions, its the players own chairmen, secretary's, county board reps who agree all these decisions with the County Boards. Players need to start making their voices heard, withdraw their services, refuse to play games for the clubs and pretty soon, County Boards will start listening, because the money will start running dry.

cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 489 - 03/03/2017 09:27:57    1963063

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To the opening poster, how exactly will the Super 8 cause fixture congestion for clubs in 2018 compared to previous years?

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 04/03/2017 22:44:25    1963676

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Replying To Skelling:  "To the opening poster, how exactly will the Super 8 cause fixture congestion for clubs in 2018 compared to previous years?"
In Cavan alone, so far the league has been put back 4 weeks due to county fixtures and the missed games scheduled for next week will be played mid week later in the year, so club players will be expected to play at a weekend, mid week and weekend following.
As for the super 8, it probably won't effect Cavan if the current performances are anything to go by, but the super 8 creates extra games for the counties involved, causing problems for the club players in those counties.
More county games = more disruption to the club scene.
The GAA are paying lip service to the so called grass roots in favour of elite games and deals with sky, eir sports, etc.
TG4 have provided an excellent service to GAA fans showing club and league games, but when the lucrative fixture of the repeat of the All Ireland game of Mayo and Dublin on Sat night it was on Eir sports.
no one seems to care that the club scene is being messed around. It is evident here as posters are more concerned with the county games than the fact that the club games have been delayed because of county fixtures. The county players only represent a small % of the GAA players.

FrDougalMaguire (Cavan) - Posts: 152 - 06/03/2017 10:14:41    1964384

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FrDougalMaguire, your reply contains a lot of different arguments which are fine, but I'm not getting into them.

However, the fact is that no county will be in the All-Ireland championship longer under the new system. Almost all will exit the championship around 2-3 weeks earlier than they would have done under the current system. Therefore, clubs will have their county players back earlier than they currently do.

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 06/03/2017 22:18:13    1964845

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Replying To Skelling:  "FrDougalMaguire, your reply contains a lot of different arguments which are fine, but I'm not getting into them.

However, the fact is that no county will be in the All-Ireland championship longer under the new system. Almost all will exit the championship around 2-3 weeks earlier than they would have done under the current system. Therefore, clubs will have their county players back earlier than they currently do."
Everything hinges on the provincial championships been condensed .
Under the present system it takes 3 months to run off the Ulster championship which consists of 8 games.
If the GAA are serious well this need to. E condensed to about 6 weeks.
That would mean playing more than one Ulster game in a weekend.
There no reason why the 4 quarters could not be played the same weekend. 2 sat and 2 Sunday.
Double header for the Semi would probably fill Clones.
Championship club football will be at a total standstill until the County are out of the all Ireland because the extra games in the super 8 and the all Ireland's been brought forward means County teams will probably play every 2 weeks.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 07/03/2017 11:33:33    1964963

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "Everything hinges on the provincial championships been condensed .
Under the present system it takes 3 months to run off the Ulster championship which consists of 8 games.
If the GAA are serious well this need to. E condensed to about 6 weeks.
That would mean playing more than one Ulster game in a weekend.
There no reason why the 4 quarters could not be played the same weekend. 2 sat and 2 Sunday.
Double header for the Semi would probably fill Clones.
Championship club football will be at a total standstill until the County are out of the all Ireland because the extra games in the super 8 and the all Ireland's been brought forward means County teams will probably play every 2 weeks."
Awwwnow, unsurprisingly you obviously haven't read the proposals.

This is all explained therein. It's incredible the amount of opinion being given on this subject by people who haven't even taken the time to read what is being proposed.

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 07/03/2017 13:56:43    1965019

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Awwnow, you also say that games will be held up by the Super 8. On the assumption that you're comparing the Super 8 to this and previous years, then you're incorrect there also.

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 07/03/2017 14:15:16    1965026

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Replying To Skelling:  "Awwwnow, unsurprisingly you obviously haven't read the proposals.

This is all explained therein. It's incredible the amount of opinion being given on this subject by people who haven't even taken the time to read what is being proposed."
The only proposal I'm looking to read it the one that states when our club championship can start. Not looking for an exact date .. just to name the month would be suffice.
No proposal from the Top states this.
The only explanation they can give is they are brining the final forward by 3 weeks. As a club official I want to know when our club will commence the club championship.. for training purposes for starters.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 07/03/2017 14:19:43    1965028

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "The only proposal I'm looking to read it the one that states when our club championship can start. Not looking for an exact date .. just to name the month would be suffice.
No proposal from the Top states this.
The only explanation they can give is they are brining the final forward by 3 weeks. As a club official I want to know when our club will commence the club championship.. for training purposes for starters."
All the best with that.

If you've no interest in the inter-county proposals, maybe you'd cease stating incorrect information on it. But then why change your habits.

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 07/03/2017 14:38:26    1965040

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Replying To Skelling:  "Awwnow, you also say that games will be held up by the Super 8. On the assumption that you're comparing the Super 8 to this and previous years, then you're incorrect there also."
Look work this out like a good man

If there are more county games that means the county teams involved in the super 8 will have to play more games and therefore have less time during June, July August to play club football.
There will be 12 Super 8!round robin games instead of 4 in the present system.
These games cannot take place until the qualifiers are finished..
The qualifiers can't be finished unless the provincial championships are finished
And if it takes as long to finish the provincial championships as in previous years where are we going to get the time to play the 8 extra round robin games plus bring the all Ireland forward if we don't condense the provincials from 3 months to a more realistic 6 weeks?
Skelling ... read this post as many times as it takes for it to sink in

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 07/03/2017 14:47:42    1965045

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "Look work this out like a good man

If there are more county games that means the county teams involved in the super 8 will have to play more games and therefore have less time during June, July August to play club football.
There will be 12 Super 8!round robin games instead of 4 in the present system.
These games cannot take place until the qualifiers are finished..
The qualifiers can't be finished unless the provincial championships are finished
And if it takes as long to finish the provincial championships as in previous years where are we going to get the time to play the 8 extra round robin games plus bring the all Ireland forward if we don't condense the provincials from 3 months to a more realistic 6 weeks?
Skelling ... read this post as many times as it takes for it to sink in"
Ha ha. You're a legend, the like of which hasn't been seen since deanmartin.

The answer is in the proposal, the one you don't want to read. There are a lot of big words in it so I can understand your hesitancy.

But anyway, let me explain. The provincials will be finished earlier, the back-door will be finished earlier. Be jing, if you look at it (I know you won't) the whole championship is over earlier. So regardless of whether teams play 100 games more than previous years, EVERY COUNTY will exit the intercounty championship earlier than in previous years.

I assume your next post will be making the same points over and over again. So, if you could, would you just not post it? It's fairly tiresome.

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 07/03/2017 15:13:00    1965064

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so to summarise, we already have the acfl pushed back into april and no one seems to really care.
For next year to facilitate the super 8 and a " fast finish" to championship in aug, do clubs abandon their games from mid may until August and start all over again.
The club player is the one that is getting the raw deal here, not to mention the county lads who have extra games to play. When you look at it , there will be 2 provincial champions in each group plus 2 qualifiers. On the law of averages, unless there is a major upset, the four provincial champions will be in the semis, so in essence, the GAA are making more games to generate more cash for the same outcome as the old championship before qualifiers were introduced.
Why not go back to knockout, add bite to every game and have the four champions play semis. Probably not enough money in it. The championship would end quicker, if your team was knocked out in the first round, the your club championship and league could also start and end quicker, like in the good old days before tv deals.

FrDougalMaguire (Cavan) - Posts: 152 - 07/03/2017 15:30:24    1965077

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Replying To FrDougalMaguire:  "so to summarise, we already have the acfl pushed back into april and no one seems to really care.
For next year to facilitate the super 8 and a " fast finish" to championship in aug, do clubs abandon their games from mid may until August and start all over again.
The club player is the one that is getting the raw deal here, not to mention the county lads who have extra games to play. When you look at it , there will be 2 provincial champions in each group plus 2 qualifiers. On the law of averages, unless there is a major upset, the four provincial champions will be in the semis, so in essence, the GAA are making more games to generate more cash for the same outcome as the old championship before qualifiers were introduced.
Why not go back to knockout, add bite to every game and have the four champions play semis. Probably not enough money in it. The championship would end quicker, if your team was knocked out in the first round, the your club championship and league could also start and end quicker, like in the good old days before tv deals."
Because the county players don't want to play just one game.

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 07/03/2017 15:40:03    1965086

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Replying To FrDougalMaguire:  "so to summarise, we already have the acfl pushed back into april and no one seems to really care.
For next year to facilitate the super 8 and a " fast finish" to championship in aug, do clubs abandon their games from mid may until August and start all over again.
The club player is the one that is getting the raw deal here, not to mention the county lads who have extra games to play. When you look at it , there will be 2 provincial champions in each group plus 2 qualifiers. On the law of averages, unless there is a major upset, the four provincial champions will be in the semis, so in essence, the GAA are making more games to generate more cash for the same outcome as the old championship before qualifiers were introduced.
Why not go back to knockout, add bite to every game and have the four champions play semis. Probably not enough money in it. The championship would end quicker, if your team was knocked out in the first round, the your club championship and league could also start and end quicker, like in the good old days before tv deals."
Agree 100%.. but as you stated is about money and always has been. If we went back to knockout at both club and county level we would have great intensity in games where the underdog can have his day in the sun.The best Championship of the lot is the all Ireland club championship which is played on a knockout basis.. why? Because being played through the winter it's not money driven.

The new Super8 system means the Dublins and the kerrys and the tyrones can lose 2 games and still win an all Ireland so the odds are stacked in their favour.
Seemingly it's the "never kicked a ball in your life" brigade that seem to be in favour of the Super 8. .

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 07/03/2017 15:56:22    1965098

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Replying To Skelling:  "Because the county players don't want to play just one game."
But our county players don't want the Super 8 either.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 07/03/2017 16:00:40    1965100

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What sport in the world plays their quarter finals on a round robin basis? .... GAA

What sport in the world do you not need to win the quarter final to advance to the Semi final???? .... GAA... you could draw your 3 qualifying games and still make the Semi.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 07/03/2017 16:10:39    1965107

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "But our county players don't want the Super 8 either."
Just answering the man's question.

Players were asked last summer what they wanted and didn't want. They didn't want a two-tiered championship, they wanted to keep the provincials and they wanted more games relative to training sessions. They weren't asked about a Super 8 so I suppose it's hard to say no to something you're not specifically asked about.

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 07/03/2017 16:35:00    1965126

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Replying To Skelling:  "Just answering the man's question.

Players were asked last summer what they wanted and didn't want. They didn't want a two-tiered championship, they wanted to keep the provincials and they wanted more games relative to training sessions. They weren't asked about a Super 8 so I suppose it's hard to say no to something you're not specifically asked about."
Sad thing is that players alone don't decide. The democratic way is its firstly discussed at club level then county board level.
A mandate is then given by the clubs vote to decide for and against.
That didn't happen in Cavan because it was decided by the CB to back our president who was in favour of passing the Super8 motion.
The 2300 GPA members voted against the idea. And the CPA were given no air time a congress despite representing 33000 club players.
That's democracy GAA style .

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 07/03/2017 18:16:24    1965170

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Replying To Skelling:  "Because the county players don't want to play just one game."
They wouldn't be training for 1 game.
They play Dr mc Kenna Cup and league also.
More incentive to put 100% effort into the game if it were knock out

FrDougalMaguire (Cavan) - Posts: 152 - 08/03/2017 13:04:48    1965405

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