|
Replying To Breffni1969: "We can't win the Tailteann Cup for 3/4 Div team how in gods name do you expect to win Ulster?
Derry and Armagh have passed us going by there performances this year.
Armagh were beaten by 6 points by Donegal in the Ulster Championship same as us and came out in the qualifiers and should real improvement .
We couldn't show any improvement since Donegal even against Div 3/4 teams.
Wise up and forget about 2020. That's in the past. You may as well bring up 1952 while you at it..
Dublin won 5 in a row but it didn't count last Sunday
Talk about the present/ future. Forget past glories." oboviously you cant read very well as i also spoke about the future which when this team breaks up or mickey goes in a year or two is very bleak have you watched any underage football in the county recently. There are no footballers out there to replace what we now have and as i say ye then will have every right to moan and give out about the team again you cant read very well i never said we will win ulster i said we will be competitive in it for another year or two as we have been for the past 4 years and then we will be down to antrim and fermanaghs level so again you will have every right to moan.
breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 12/07/2022 13:51:59
2431662
Link
0
|
|
Replying To breffnibluewhite: "oboviously you cant read very well as i also spoke about the future which when this team breaks up or mickey goes in a year or two is very bleak have you watched any underage football in the county recently. There are no footballers out there to replace what we now have and as i say ye then will have every right to moan and give out about the team again you cant read very well i never said we will win ulster i said we will be competitive in it for another year or two as we have been for the past 4 years and then we will be down to antrim and fermanaghs level so again you will have every right to moan." So Mickey Graham has wasted this generation of footballers by bringing them all the way down to Division 4… He took over in Division 1 and to even get back to Division 2 means he wasted 4 of their years tinkering around in the basement leagues… We fluked our way to the 2020 Ulster Final and then surprised everyone ( even ourselves ) by winning… Since then we have been going backwards… Any decent team with a decent manager would kick on from there and show improvement but we have been the exact opposite… Despite been favourites we tipped the load in the Taltainn cup final…. A competition designed for WEAK teams… if we can't get over the line in that then don't be talking rubbish that Graham has made us competitive in the Ulster Championship…. We are miles away… Mickey and the other 21 hangers on OUT ….. you have wasted enough time…
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1901 - 12/07/2022 15:01:31
2431686
Link
0
|
|
Replying To cavanblueman: "Ah here we go, the begrudgers are out with the knives calling for Mickey's scalp, the same begrudgers who were happy with things under Terry for over 5 years - and I see even some are calling for Damien Donohoe to be given a chance, that tells me how clueless some supporters are.
Cavan would have won that game on Sunday but for two things; 1. A stupid red card and 2. A unexplainable pass from one of the teams most experience players that allowed Westmeath go up and score a goal (by the way, the defending for the goal was atrocious. Management didn't tell Galligan to get a red card, that was his decision only nor did they tell Martin Reilly to pass the ball to a Westmeath man - that's the difference between then top players and the rest, top players seldom make those mistakes and even if they do, they keep them to a minimum. Those were two big mistakes in a big game and were the main reasons for defeat.
Its easy to blame the management team when we lose - yes, we can say they should have did this and did that, but the fact is, once the team is picked, its up to the players on the pitch to go out and perform and unfortunately, a lot of them simply didn't perform to the best of their abilities.
The facts are that we have some very good footballers in Cavan and Mickey has worked wonders with them, two Ulster Final appearances in the space of a few years, and our first win since 1997. People need to realise that we are not Dublin, Kerry, Galway, Mayo, and Donegal, we are a Division 2/3 team at best and unfortunately, we have been now for a very long time. We simply dont have the top class players that the aforementioned Counties have (maybe we need to look at our underage development to see why) but one things for sure, hats off to the current panel of players and backroom team who give up so much time and effort to represent their County. Those people are amateur sports people, and as Mickey said, inter-county is 24/7 whilst trying to balance families and work, so rather than coming on here calling for heads to roll, why not come on and thank them all and give them the credit they deserve for all their efforts." Did you thank Terry for all the work he put in? Did you give him credit for laying the foundations to our 2020 success?When he took over the U21's in 2010 we had been beaten by Antrim and Fermanagh in the previous 2 years, Cavan football was going nowhere and Terry had first hand experience of that.He put a system in place which ok wasn't to everyone's taste but it was successful in getting us to 5 Ulster finals and winning 4.He then took over the seniors in 2012 , as has been said on here already we don't have an abundance of talent to be experimenting during the league but this he did giving the young lads a chance. Indeed we were fortunate back then to avoid the drop to division 4 .His courage and belief in bringing the youngsters on we're eventually rewarded with eventual promotion to division 1 and having the likes of Dublin and Kerry playing competitive football in breifne park giving these lads invaluable experience of playing the top teams.In the championship you could say luck eluded him , beaten by Donegal eventual AI champions in 2012,another year beaten by Tyrone after a replay and other times beaten by a Monaghan team at their peak by the kick of a ball.This was all with a bunch of lads most of whom hadn't reached their prime.His and Matties legacy was to hand a panel of established and experienced footballers in their prime over to Mickey and he finished their work off by landing the Anglo Celt Cup.As has been said already some people have very short memories.
aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 256 - 12/07/2022 15:24:45
2431698
Link
0
|
|
Replying To aceofspades: "Did you thank Terry for all the work he put in? Did you give him credit for laying the foundations to our 2020 success?When he took over the U21's in 2010 we had been beaten by Antrim and Fermanagh in the previous 2 years, Cavan football was going nowhere and Terry had first hand experience of that.He put a system in place which ok wasn't to everyone's taste but it was successful in getting us to 5 Ulster finals and winning 4.He then took over the seniors in 2012 , as has been said on here already we don't have an abundance of talent to be experimenting during the league but this he did giving the young lads a chance. Indeed we were fortunate back then to avoid the drop to division 4 .His courage and belief in bringing the youngsters on we're eventually rewarded with eventual promotion to division 1 and having the likes of Dublin and Kerry playing competitive football in breifne park giving these lads invaluable experience of playing the top teams.In the championship you could say luck eluded him , beaten by Donegal eventual AI champions in 2012,another year beaten by Tyrone after a replay and other times beaten by a Monaghan team at their peak by the kick of a ball.This was all with a bunch of lads most of whom hadn't reached their prime.His and Matties legacy was to hand a panel of established and experienced footballers in their prime over to Mickey and he finished their work off by landing the Anglo Celt Cup.As has been said already some people have very short memories." I think that is a very fair commentary on the past 10 years and huge credit to all involved in it. The question though now is what is best going forward. I think it is impossible to argue that we've progressed since 2020. So it might be time for change and u say that not being one of the uber negative brigade thar call our 2020 win a fluke and clearly have vendetta against some members of management. I say it as someone who wants the best for Cavan and is genuinely thankful to mickey for what he has delivered.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1483 - 12/07/2022 16:05:17
2431714
Link
0
|
|
Mickey Graham took over when Cavan were in Division 1. They were relegated that year but playing a high level was a help going into championship in 19..Then in 20 relegated in Division 2.but playing Kikdare Roscommon was also a help going into the Monaghan game.
Those U2 players were in the prime under Mickey Graham, 26 to 28/29.
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 12/07/2022 16:09:06
2431716
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Breffni1969: "We can't win the Tailteann Cup for 3/4 Div team how in gods name do you expect to win Ulster?
Derry and Armagh have passed us going by there performances this year.
Armagh were beaten by 6 points by Donegal in the Ulster Championship same as us and came out in the qualifiers and should real improvement .
We couldn't show any improvement since Donegal even against Div 3/4 teams.
Wise up and forget about 2020. That's in the past. You may as well bring up 1952 while you at it..
Dublin won 5 in a row but it didn't count last Sunday
Talk about the present/ future. Forget past glories." A good point I think. There is a little too much arguing on this forum now about whether the team or the Mgmt. are good or bad on an overall basis, and different posters being spokesmen for each point in a never ending fashion.
I have been a defender of Mickey Graham throughout his tenure, and winning the Ulster Title for a county like us means he has done a great job full stop. But things have gone stale this year, and a new face is needed.
If we get in early, my choice for new manager would be to raid Kilcoo for Mickey Moran's last big job before he retires. Tailteann Cup favourites, not unrealistic Ulster contenders, very realistic league promotion from Division 3 opportunity should be enough to lure him in.
He is certainly an expert at making teams competitive against potentially better footballing opponents by being well set up with a clear plan for defence and attack, and seems to be fit to keep teams consistently hungry, which is what we are missing.
Potential Cavan man selectors I would like to see in with him. Jayo, Bernard Morris, Terry Hyland.
Apart from Mickey Graham, those are probably your 3 realistic candidates within the county that might be able for the pressure of the big job. I don't see any of them taking over from Mickey and being an improvement in the big job, but all largely improved the teams they worked with over the years, won some silverware, and could be very useful backroom men.
PatTheDandy (Cavan) - Posts: 356 - 12/07/2022 16:46:22
2431727
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ForeverBlue2: "So Mickey Graham has wasted this generation of footballers by bringing them all the way down to Division 4… He took over in Division 1 and to even get back to Division 2 means he wasted 4 of their years tinkering around in the basement leagues… We fluked our way to the 2020 Ulster Final and then surprised everyone ( even ourselves ) by winning… Since then we have been going backwards… Any decent team with a decent manager would kick on from there and show improvement but we have been the exact opposite… Despite been favourites we tipped the load in the Taltainn cup final…. A competition designed for WEAK teams… if we can't get over the line in that then don't be talking rubbish that Graham has made us competitive in the Ulster Championship…. We are miles away… Mickey and the other 21 hangers on OUT ….. you have wasted enough time…" if you count winning the anglo celt cup as a waste of a generation then you are gone well beyond help. How long do you think it will be until we next get a manager that can win 6 games in the ulster championship. who would you suggest.
breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 12/07/2022 17:23:46
2431736
Link
0
|
|
Replying To PatTheDandy: "A good point I think. There is a little too much arguing on this forum now about whether the team or the Mgmt. are good or bad on an overall basis, and different posters being spokesmen for each point in a never ending fashion.
I have been a defender of Mickey Graham throughout his tenure, and winning the Ulster Title for a county like us means he has done a great job full stop. But things have gone stale this year, and a new face is needed.
If we get in early, my choice for new manager would be to raid Kilcoo for Mickey Moran's last big job before he retires. Tailteann Cup favourites, not unrealistic Ulster contenders, very realistic league promotion from Division 3 opportunity should be enough to lure him in.
He is certainly an expert at making teams competitive against potentially better footballing opponents by being well set up with a clear plan for defence and attack, and seems to be fit to keep teams consistently hungry, which is what we are missing.
Potential Cavan man selectors I would like to see in with him. Jayo, Bernard Morris, Terry Hyland.
Apart from Mickey Graham, those are probably your 3 realistic candidates within the county that might be able for the pressure of the big job. I don't see any of them taking over from Mickey and being an improvement in the big job, but all largely improved the teams they worked with over the years, won some silverware, and could be very useful backroom men." i agree change is needed but i think it is important that mickey stays on or else you will have alot of retirements. Its obovious that our defensive structure has completely changed and the decision not to press the opposition kick out has been a diaster. This and our inability to score goals has to be sorted.
breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 12/07/2022 17:32:40
2431738
Link
0
|
|
Cavan got what was coming to them. Cavans defence was a shambles. Ronan O Toole ran amok and Conor Brady was nowhere to be seen. Did the management not watch him and the Red haired lad at No.6 in the semi final. It ended up with Thomas Galligan getting frustrated and stupidly trying to nail him. Thomas shouldve been subbed b4 this anyhow. If this is the best we can offer in a final we can forget about it. Slow laborious build up play. Is this what is going on at training? Whats Seanie Johnston input ?Whats Riceys input into the defence set up. None by either of them. In all honesty only for the good start against Sligo and a few lucky goal line clearances Sligo would have won. Shambolic defending again. Gearoid again only played for a couple of minutes. Not good enough. Was he not responsible for following No.6. Enough for now
Allrevvedup (Cavan) - Posts: 36 - 12/07/2022 19:42:43
2431755
Link
0
|
|
Replying To PatTheDandy: "A good point I think. There is a little too much arguing on this forum now about whether the team or the Mgmt. are good or bad on an overall basis, and different posters being spokesmen for each point in a never ending fashion.
I have been a defender of Mickey Graham throughout his tenure, and winning the Ulster Title for a county like us means he has done a great job full stop. But things have gone stale this year, and a new face is needed.
If we get in early, my choice for new manager would be to raid Kilcoo for Mickey Moran's last big job before he retires. Tailteann Cup favourites, not unrealistic Ulster contenders, very realistic league promotion from Division 3 opportunity should be enough to lure him in.
He is certainly an expert at making teams competitive against potentially better footballing opponents by being well set up with a clear plan for defence and attack, and seems to be fit to keep teams consistently hungry, which is what we are missing.
Potential Cavan man selectors I would like to see in with him. Jayo, Bernard Morris, Terry Hyland.
Apart from Mickey Graham, those are probably your 3 realistic candidates within the county that might be able for the pressure of the big job. I don't see any of them taking over from Mickey and being an improvement in the big job, but all largely improved the teams they worked with over the years, won some silverware, and could be very useful backroom men." I'm originally from Virginia but I live in Mullingar.
I was asked my opinion before the final on Cavan's chances.
I replied that I felt that this was the best Cavan team I'd seen for a long time. I honestly thought we'd win comfortably and I felt after the goal and a two point lead we'd control and see out the game but then came Galligan's howler of a tackle and immediately we panicked and lost our shape. The rest is history, Westmeath deservedly won even though Cavan could have won playing badly. Fact is that our big players never showed up and Westmeath wanted it more. Oisin McConville said that Cavan have bigger plans and this defeat won't set them back.
I'm not so sure.
You had to see the home coming Westmeath got.
Unbelievable. Hard to be a Cavan man and have to work a 12 hour shift and watching the fans of the team that beat you celebrate.
desagov (Cavan) - Posts: 207 - 13/07/2022 09:02:05
2431778
Link
0
|
|
Replying To breffnibluewhite: "i agree change is needed but i think it is important that mickey stays on or else you will have alot of retirements. Its obovious that our defensive structure has completely changed and the decision not to press the opposition kick out has been a diaster. This and our inability to score goals has to be sorted." You admit that our defence is in ribbons.. we are unable to score goals and the decision not to press opponents kick outs is a disaster yet you think Mickey Graham should stay on…..! Is the manager not the cause of all these deficiencies…? I think you are beyond needing help…..
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1901 - 13/07/2022 09:46:41
2431784
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Allrevvedup: "Cavan got what was coming to them. Cavans defence was a shambles. Ronan O Toole ran amok and Conor Brady was nowhere to be seen. Did the management not watch him and the Red haired lad at No.6 in the semi final. It ended up with Thomas Galligan getting frustrated and stupidly trying to nail him. Thomas shouldve been subbed b4 this anyhow. If this is the best we can offer in a final we can forget about it. Slow laborious build up play. Is this what is going on at training? Whats Seanie Johnston input ?Whats Riceys input into the defence set up. None by either of them. In all honesty only for the good start against Sligo and a few lucky goal line clearances Sligo would have won. Shambolic defending again. Gearoid again only played for a couple of minutes. Not good enough. Was he not responsible for following No.6. Enough for now" Gearoid again only played for a couple of minutes. Not good enough. Was he not responsible for following No.6. Enough for now
Allrevvedup (Cavan) - Posts: 32 - 12/07/2022 19:42:43
No he was not responsible for following No. 6.
RHF (Cavan) - Posts: 845 - 13/07/2022 10:54:05
2431807
Link
0
|
|
Replying To aceofspades: "Did you thank Terry for all the work he put in? Did you give him credit for laying the foundations to our 2020 success?When he took over the U21's in 2010 we had been beaten by Antrim and Fermanagh in the previous 2 years, Cavan football was going nowhere and Terry had first hand experience of that.He put a system in place which ok wasn't to everyone's taste but it was successful in getting us to 5 Ulster finals and winning 4.He then took over the seniors in 2012 , as has been said on here already we don't have an abundance of talent to be experimenting during the league but this he did giving the young lads a chance. Indeed we were fortunate back then to avoid the drop to division 4 .His courage and belief in bringing the youngsters on we're eventually rewarded with eventual promotion to division 1 and having the likes of Dublin and Kerry playing competitive football in breifne park giving these lads invaluable experience of playing the top teams.In the championship you could say luck eluded him , beaten by Donegal eventual AI champions in 2012,another year beaten by Tyrone after a replay and other times beaten by a Monaghan team at their peak by the kick of a ball.This was all with a bunch of lads most of whom hadn't reached their prime.His and Matties legacy was to hand a panel of established and experienced footballers in their prime over to Mickey and he finished their work off by landing the Anglo Celt Cup.As has been said already some people have very short memories." How many Ulster Senior Championship matches did Terry or Mattie win during their tenure?
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 13/07/2022 10:54:09
2431808
Link
0
|
|
Replying To PatTheDandy: "A good point I think. There is a little too much arguing on this forum now about whether the team or the Mgmt. are good or bad on an overall basis, and different posters being spokesmen for each point in a never ending fashion.
I have been a defender of Mickey Graham throughout his tenure, and winning the Ulster Title for a county like us means he has done a great job full stop. But things have gone stale this year, and a new face is needed.
If we get in early, my choice for new manager would be to raid Kilcoo for Mickey Moran's last big job before he retires. Tailteann Cup favourites, not unrealistic Ulster contenders, very realistic league promotion from Division 3 opportunity should be enough to lure him in.
He is certainly an expert at making teams competitive against potentially better footballing opponents by being well set up with a clear plan for defence and attack, and seems to be fit to keep teams consistently hungry, which is what we are missing.
Potential Cavan man selectors I would like to see in with him. Jayo, Bernard Morris, Terry Hyland.
Apart from Mickey Graham, those are probably your 3 realistic candidates within the county that might be able for the pressure of the big job. I don't see any of them taking over from Mickey and being an improvement in the big job, but all largely improved the teams they worked with over the years, won some silverware, and could be very useful backroom men." How have things gone stale? We won a league title and reached a Tailteann Cup Final - granted, we didnt play well, but we were in the game until a stupid red card and a stupid pass from two of our more experienced players cost us the game.
And give me a break, Terry Hyland as a selector - senior football during his tenure was the worse I've ever seen, it was that bad, supporters stayed away from the matches.
Be careful what you wish for, we are as competitive in Ulster now than we have been in a long long time. Remind me, how many Ulster Senior matches have won before Mickey took over?
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 13/07/2022 11:00:25
2431810
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ForeverBlue2: "You admit that our defence is in ribbons.. we are unable to score goals and the decision not to press opponents kick outs is a disaster yet you think Mickey Graham should stay on…..! Is the manager not the cause of all these deficiencies…? I think you are beyond needing help….." Did Mickey tell Thomas Galligan to go out and commit a stupid foul? Did Mickey tell Martin Reilly to give a stupid pass with a few minutes remaining? Did Mickey tell the defence to let the Westmeath forward in to score a goal? No he didnt - these were the decisive moments that cost Cavan the match.
Did Mickey get us to two Ulster Senior Finals in a row? Did Mickey manage us to our first Ulster Title since 1997, has Mickey made us more competitive in Ulster - yes, yes and yes - so be very careful what you wish for!
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 13/07/2022 11:04:32
2431813
Link
0
|
|
Replying To cavanblueman: "Did Mickey tell Thomas Galligan to go out and commit a stupid foul? Did Mickey tell Martin Reilly to give a stupid pass with a few minutes remaining? Did Mickey tell the defence to let the Westmeath forward in to score a goal? No he didnt - these were the decisive moments that cost Cavan the match.
Did Mickey get us to two Ulster Senior Finals in a row? Did Mickey manage us to our first Ulster Title since 1997, has Mickey made us more competitive in Ulster - yes, yes and yes - so be very careful what you wish for!" So now it's the players fault….. some of the players you fear will retire if the great Mickey goes…You do need help… The buck stops with the manager …. He just can't see the problems that are starting him in the face … living far too long of a fluke run to the 2020 Ulster Final…
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1901 - 13/07/2022 12:17:45
2431832
Link
0
|
|
Replying To cavanblueman: "Did Mickey tell Thomas Galligan to go out and commit a stupid foul? Did Mickey tell Martin Reilly to give a stupid pass with a few minutes remaining? Did Mickey tell the defence to let the Westmeath forward in to score a goal? No he didnt - these were the decisive moments that cost Cavan the match.
Did Mickey get us to two Ulster Senior Finals in a row? Did Mickey manage us to our first Ulster Title since 1997, has Mickey made us more competitive in Ulster - yes, yes and yes - so be very careful what you wish for!" I think there have been serious issues all year with how the the defence and the forwards are coached and set up. We have been getting away with it for the most part as we have been beating teams at a lower level and have some good players. We nearly got over the line again on Saturday playing at about 70% of what we are capable. The fact we lost on Saturday means we have to have a serious look at the set up. This has already started as Mickey is considering his position which he would do anyway as his 4 years are up but there will be a lot more soul searching for him after Saturday. This should include assessment of what his backroom team has brought, Rice and Jelly in particular. I hope he stays on because we have played at a level at times which is the best any Cavan team has played in 25 years but in order to play at a consistently higher level some serious changes need to take place. This includes making promotion next year a priority.
BreffniGael (Cavan) - Posts: 44 - 13/07/2022 12:19:45
2431834
Link
0
|
|
Replying To RHF: "Gearoid again only played for a couple of minutes. Not good enough. Was he not responsible for following No.6. Enough for now
Allrevvedup (Cavan) - Posts: 32 - 12/07/2022 19:42:43
No he was not responsible for following No. 6." I'm not surprised he wasn't responsible for following their No.6 as he has never tracked a player
in any game ever…. Another thing this great management team have missed… We are virtually down a man when out of possession because of this but what matter just let them run through for yet another goal chance…. He stood looking at the No.11 having the freedom of Croke park but what matter… Mickey is a wonderful manager…
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1901 - 13/07/2022 12:26:14
2431835
Link
0
|
|
Replying To RHF: "Gearoid again only played for a couple of minutes. Not good enough. Was he not responsible for following No.6. Enough for now
Allrevvedup (Cavan) - Posts: 32 - 12/07/2022 19:42:43
No he was not responsible for following No. 6." I'm not surprised he wasn't responsible for following their No.6 as he has never tracked a player
in any game ever…. Another thing this great management team have missed… We are virtually down a man when out of possession because of this but what matter just let them run through for yet another goal chance…. He stood looking at the No.11 having the freedom of Croke park but what matter… Mickey is a wonderful manager…
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1901 - 13/07/2022 12:35:18
2431840
Link
0
|
|
Replying To cavanblueman: "Did Mickey tell Thomas Galligan to go out and commit a stupid foul? Did Mickey tell Martin Reilly to give a stupid pass with a few minutes remaining? Did Mickey tell the defence to let the Westmeath forward in to score a goal? No he didnt - these were the decisive moments that cost Cavan the match.
Did Mickey get us to two Ulster Senior Finals in a row? Did Mickey manage us to our first Ulster Title since 1997, has Mickey made us more competitive in Ulster - yes, yes and yes - so be very careful what you wish for!" So now it's the players fault….. some of the players you fear will retire if the great Mickey goes…You do need help… The buck stops with the manager …. He just can't see the problems that are starting him in the face … living far too long of a fluke run to the 2020 Ulster Final…
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1901 - 13/07/2022 12:35:25
2431841
Link
0
|