Cavan Forum

Cavan v Monaghan

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Lads we can criticise the tactics but the reality is Monaghan to all extents and purposes used the same. They have McManus and 2/3 more standout performers on the day and that was the difference. They're not complaining.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 11947 - 14/06/2017 12:11:13    1999530

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True, they had 15 men behind the ball at times Cavan. McManus has been the difference in their 3 wins against Cavan in the Championship. Colin Walshe also very effective. He nullified Martin Dunne in 2013.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2580 - 14/06/2017 13:06:34    1999556

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Replying To Breffni39:  "Lads we can criticise the tactics but the reality is Monaghan to all extents and purposes used the same. They have McManus and 2/3 more standout performers on the day and that was the difference. They're not complaining."
Thgey're not complaining because they won.

Look at the Mc Manus goal and see the quick movement he made. He signaled where he wanted the ball played to and the pass was given quickly which allowed him the time and room to receive it and dummy Moynagh (who should have rattled him). Anytime our inside line pointed to where they wanted the ball played they didn't get it and it was played laterally yet again.

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 14/06/2017 14:40:13    1999605

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Replying To Cavan_Slasher:  "Thgey're not complaining because they won.

Look at the Mc Manus goal and see the quick movement he made. He signaled where he wanted the ball played to and the pass was given quickly which allowed him the time and room to receive it and dummy Moynagh (who should have rattled him). Anytime our inside line pointed to where they wanted the ball played they didn't get it and it was played laterally yet again."
Cavan Slasher that just about sums it up.
And it's been played latterly or backwards for the last 5 years and that type of mentality is very hard to break overnight.
The inside forward line are getting slated unfairly but there getting no quick ball whatsoever .

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 14/06/2017 14:54:03    1999612

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Monaghan play lateral passes too.

I've said McManus made the difference so I don't know how pointing to his goal somehow contradicts this.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 11947 - 14/06/2017 15:16:42    1999623

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Replying To Breffni39:  "Monaghan play lateral passes too.

I've said McManus made the difference so I don't know how pointing to his goal somehow contradicts this."
Monaghan didn't play much lateral stuff with the wind did they?
Their kick outs actually bypassed our midfield most of the time.
They ran straight at us and we defended like a zonal basketball team each man knew where he should be but didn't know what he was suppose to do.
It's about more than getting numbers back. Tackles have to be got in legitimately. Turnovers have to be won and break at pace and even black cards have to be taken at times e.g. Their goal.
It's about using your brain.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 14/06/2017 15:56:01    1999637

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Replying To Inaroundehouse:  "Cavan Slasher that just about sums it up.
And it's been played latterly or backwards for the last 5 years and that type of mentality is very hard to break overnight.
The inside forward line are getting slated unfairly but there getting no quick ball whatsoever ."
The truth is that we counter attacked with much greater pace last year. This year we have regressed. On the Sunday game last year they even showed out the pace of our attacks had improved.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1482 - 14/06/2017 15:56:22    1999638

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Disappointing result on Sunday but not unexpected - Monaghan were the favorites and bookies are rarely wrong.

There are a few things that outline why they got over the line against us:

- As someone already mentioned, the turnover of players on our side is far too high, Monaghan have a more settled team
- Monaghan are more experienced (have been to 3 quarters in the last 4 years, we have 1, have 2 ulsters we haven't even been to a final etc), it's good to have a young fit team like ours but experience is vital.
- Lack of leaders on our team, Monaghan have several in all areas of the pitch.
- Strong bench, more options, they brought on players to make a difference as they did against Fermanagh, our bench looked light
- Consistent management, O'Rourke is there a while now, Mattie only in the job so he needs time and this is his first year as an inter county manager.
- I think the extra game stood to Monaghan, playing competitive matches is worth several training sessions

Lads it's tough to admit but at the moment they are a better team than us and we need to play above ourselves and they have an off day and we will get over them. Back in the late 90's and early 00's we had the beating of time but there has been a shift and we are on the wrong side of it. Perhaps if we get players back, get back up to div 1, Mattie gets more time then we will get over the line.

Its not all doom and gloom and if the players want it they could make a quarter final - they are on the easier side of the qualifiers so hopefully they can put a run together and build on it. Up Cavan!

sidelineview (Cavan) - Posts: 109 - 14/06/2017 16:02:51    1999641

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Replying To Cavan_Slasher:  "Thgey're not complaining because they won.

Look at the Mc Manus goal and see the quick movement he made. He signaled where he wanted the ball played to and the pass was given quickly which allowed him the time and room to receive it and dummy Moynagh (who should have rattled him). Anytime our inside line pointed to where they wanted the ball played they didn't get it and it was played laterally yet again."
He signalled where he wanted it but it was still a handpass which shows up how naive our defending was.

doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 14/06/2017 16:58:48    1999661

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Replying To Breffni39:  "Monaghan play lateral passes too.

I've said McManus made the difference so I don't know how pointing to his goal somehow contradicts this."
Because they know how to do it a la the goal. We don't.

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 14/06/2017 17:21:54    1999675

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Replying To doratheexplorer:  "He signalled where he wanted it but it was still a handpass which shows up how naive our defending was."
Our centerfield and half-backs are also naive.
They gave the ball to where the inside man was instead of where he intended running to. When a player points he wants the ball played to where he points not to where he was. I saw that happening a number of times on Sunday.
This is a training issue surely.

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 14/06/2017 17:28:48    1999678

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The Sunday game showed more than anything that our defenders cannot tackle and don't even try to. They stand around markin space. When Monaghan broke through that Cavan defenders stood there and watched them sail past, didn't even try to tackle. Game over

shannon414 (Cavan) - Posts: 228 - 14/06/2017 18:42:18    1999697

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Replying To Cavan_Slasher:  "Our centerfield and half-backs are also naive.
They gave the ball to where the inside man was instead of where he intended running to. When a player points he wants the ball played to where he points not to where he was. I saw that happening a number of times on Sunday.
This is a training issue surely."
Still think our full forward line very poor on paper. Can't understand Joe Dillon being on bench. We seem to have lads who can win their own ball but don't know where posts are or lads who do know where posts are but can't win their own ball. Here is our major issue.

doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 14/06/2017 19:24:08    1999708

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Replying To doratheexplorer:  "Still think our full forward line very poor on paper. Can't understand Joe Dillon being on bench. We seem to have lads who can win their own ball but don't know where posts are or lads who do know where posts are but can't win their own ball. Here is our major issue."
Well maybe but if you look at the first half. We tried 3 long balls into the full forward line -- all over-hit and out wide.Very poor.
In the second half instead of taking Buchanan off they should have put him in full-forward and hit long balls in which would have been held up by the wind thus giving him a chance to catch and off-load to the other forwards. Instead they left Mc Dermott as full forwars who is not nearly as big there. I'd have taken Clerkin off a lot earlier and tried the bigger men inside and played more direct football. We played into Monaghan's hands.

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 14/06/2017 19:35:56    1999710

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Replying To sidelineview:  "Disappointing result on Sunday but not unexpected - Monaghan were the favorites and bookies are rarely wrong.

There are a few things that outline why they got over the line against us:

- As someone already mentioned, the turnover of players on our side is far too high, Monaghan have a more settled team
- Monaghan are more experienced (have been to 3 quarters in the last 4 years, we have 1, have 2 ulsters we haven't even been to a final etc), it's good to have a young fit team like ours but experience is vital.
- Lack of leaders on our team, Monaghan have several in all areas of the pitch.
- Strong bench, more options, they brought on players to make a difference as they did against Fermanagh, our bench looked light
- Consistent management, O'Rourke is there a while now, Mattie only in the job so he needs time and this is his first year as an inter county manager.
- I think the extra game stood to Monaghan, playing competitive matches is worth several training sessions

Lads it's tough to admit but at the moment they are a better team than us and we need to play above ourselves and they have an off day and we will get over them. Back in the late 90's and early 00's we had the beating of time but there has been a shift and we are on the wrong side of it. Perhaps if we get players back, get back up to div 1, Mattie gets more time then we will get over the line.

Its not all doom and gloom and if the players want it they could make a quarter final - they are on the easier side of the qualifiers so hopefully they can put a run together and build on it. Up Cavan!"
Another point that is probably worth making is that when you remember back to Monaghan back in 2006- 2011 they had a lot of players like the freemans, clerkin, Finlay, mone, Mc Quaid. All good players but until they got the relevant experience they never could break through. A few lads Like the Hughes, MC manus, Walsh, beggan and wylie came along that really made them click. I see Cavan as being at the stage Monaghan we're back then. In a few years we'll have huge experience coupled with young ambitious players to hopefully smooth the thing out. The likes of gearoid, killian, moynagh, Faulkner all came in to a panel with very little or no experience. They'll hopefully be the leaders like clerkin and Finlay in years to come. That's the hope anyway.

theweanling (Cavan) - Posts: 414 - 14/06/2017 22:09:13    1999751

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Replying To Cavan_Slasher:  "Well maybe but if you look at the first half. We tried 3 long balls into the full forward line -- all over-hit and out wide.Very poor.
In the second half instead of taking Buchanan off they should have put him in full-forward and hit long balls in which would have been held up by the wind thus giving him a chance to catch and off-load to the other forwards. Instead they left Mc Dermott as full forwars who is not nearly as big there. I'd have taken Clerkin off a lot earlier and tried the bigger men inside and played more direct football. We played into Monaghan's hands."
That was the wind catching ball. I'm talking about players winning ball that bounces in front of them. Not a hail mary ball. Buchannan was took of because he was unfit. On paper it was a weak full forward line plus the fact you have madden on 40 out of position. McEnroe plays his fitst game all year in Championship rather than getting match fit. Lads who played league well dropped such as Ciaran Brady and Fergal Reilly. The exact same thing happened last year. Plus the huge turnover of players. Two u21s made their senior debut in a championship game against Monaghan. Not a league game. The system let us down and that goes back to management. Incidentally after the game he of course thought it was fantastic and fabulous.

doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 14/06/2017 22:34:05    1999757

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I'm getting fed up with Mattie and all his positive chat - In the Celt he s saying "the season starts here with the qualifiers " Well the season started with the Mc Kenna cup and we didn't make it out of the group - we got relegated from Division 1 of the league after some dismal performances particularly against Donegal and Roscommon when we were back to our all time worst. Now we are out of Ulster at the first hurdle and we had the so-called handy side of the draw. Where is this new attacking style he promised - well it doesn't exist . Its, get the ball , solo up to the 45mm line and then turn back - that's not attacking. Mackey is the only player who looks remotely like an attacker. the rest are just athletes who run all day but never pose any threat. Until such time as we get some real forwards ( and more importantly play them as forwards - not runners ) on board we ll achieve nothing. Until the management realise this we re going nowhere. People like Enda Hession . Barry Reilly . Kevin Tierney ,Eugene Keating , David Givney come to mind but for one reason or another they re not on the panel.

tenyearplan (Cavan) - Posts: 140 - 14/06/2017 23:57:13    1999776

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I don't really get Mattie's fantastic and fabulous talk, maybe it is just to keep the players motivated. It has been a huge step up from managing club football for him and I don't think he realises it yet. I still think this team can go places- in my view they need to get more rootless (Moynagh for example should of left McManus sitting when he was coming through) and stop this lateral passing when clearly better options are on. I don't know why Johnston was left of the pitch for the full 70- surely he is an impact sub at this stage

McGiolla (Cavan) - Posts: 42 - 15/06/2017 07:49:50    1999797

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Only getting a chance to post my thoughts now. Huge diversity of opinions here about the team & managements performance last Sunday. Have to say that I was not optimistic going into the game at all & I felt that their would be numerous changes to the named team. On the positive side the lads definitely gave it their all, had chances to win/draw the game against a more seasoned team with multiple leaders in their midst. Some great performances from the likes of Mackey, ciaran Brady, Martin Reilly & thought Connolly looked lively when he came on. On the negative side we do not seem to have learned any of the lessons from our league campaign in that we look clueless in what we are trying to do & how we are doing it. The Roscommon league game highlighted our deficiencies yet 10/11 wks later we are worse. We are more negative now than we were under Terry despite our new manager promising attacking football. Overall I think we have regressed from where we were 2 years ago. People on here saying that the management team will be able to have their team in 12 months time are talking rubbish. They are in situ since last October have been training for 7 months now, Mckenna cup, league campaign completed. Are management watching club games ?? Overall I feel that this was an opportunity missed as we definitely were the easier side of the draw with a home game. To win an Ulster title we will have to beat at least 2 of Donegal, Tyrone & Monaghan and at the moment we are unable to beat any of them

bond (Longford) - Posts: 165 - 15/06/2017 10:19:47    1999851

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Replying To McGiolla:  "I don't really get Mattie's fantastic and fabulous talk, maybe it is just to keep the players motivated. It has been a huge step up from managing club football for him and I don't think he realises it yet. I still think this team can go places- in my view they need to get more rootless (Moynagh for example should of left McManus sitting when he was coming through) and stop this lateral passing when clearly better options are on. I don't know why Johnston was left of the pitch for the full 70- surely he is an impact sub at this stage"
Definitely McManus should have been on his backside, he wouldn't have danced by Damian o reilly of mullahoran or ciaran Brady of gowna in there day or Morris.have to get tougher man up, not be dirty just physical. None more so than g mckiernan

blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 838 - 15/06/2017 10:22:43    1999852

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