Cavan Forum

Cavan v Monaghan

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A few thoughts. Cavan are in a far better place generally than they have been for most of the past 15 years but that said, questions have to be asked, namely, are we making the most of what we have? Out of our last 7 Ulster Championship games, we have won 1. That's really poor. I remember Rory Dunne speaking on the pitch at Croke Park after losing the All Ireland quarter-final to Kerry by six points in 2013 and he sounded so focused and so confident that Cavan were going places. That's four long years ago now and since that game, we have done well in the league but have done absolutely nothing in championship football. We've lost twice to Monaghan, to a poor Armagh side in 2014, twice to an overhyped Roscommon team, were hammered by Tyrone last year and then lost badly to a really average Derry team at home. I really think that when you think about where we were in August 2013 (All Ireland quarter-finalists, after winning 3 Ulster U21s in a row, another one to come the following year) it is completely reasonable to have expected more over the past four championship seasons. I'm not saying we're world beaters, but there's more to Cavan football than what we are getting. I'm as clueless as everyone else as to what the reasons behind this underachievement are but I just think it's important to point it out - yes, progress has been made but something is clearly wrong as well.

declando (Cavan) - Posts: 38 - 15/06/2017 11:53:05    1999893

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Replying To McGiolla:  "I don't really get Mattie's fantastic and fabulous talk, maybe it is just to keep the players motivated. It has been a huge step up from managing club football for him and I don't think he realises it yet. I still think this team can go places- in my view they need to get more rootless (Moynagh for example should of left McManus sitting when he was coming through) and stop this lateral passing when clearly better options are on. I don't know why Johnston was left of the pitch for the full 70- surely he is an impact sub at this stage"
Well M o Rourke didn't seem to have much problem stepping up from club football to managing at inter county level did he?
As regards Johnston how many balls did he waste?
How many balls were kicked into him?
The only ball he got sent into him in the 2nd half he drew a free.
It's easy to knock the corner forwards but they have to get ball.. decent ball , not over hit Hail Marys heading for the corner flag.
You have mc Kiernan, Clarke coming through who wouldn't pass the ball until they bet bottled up and have no other option.
Then they lose possession and we straight on the back foot.
It's a team game, the sooner they realise that the better.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 15/06/2017 11:55:32    1999895

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What about cootehills tom Hayes? Is he on the panel?. Surely he would you a ball winner in the full forward line....good strength and pace

Mounty (Cavan) - Posts: 32 - 15/06/2017 13:41:20    1999932

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I think there is a go-it-alone mindset in some of our "top" players who are used to lording it at their clubs. This will never work at county level.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5496 - 15/06/2017 13:46:07    1999935

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Replying To Mounty:  "What about cootehills tom Hayes? Is he on the panel?. Surely he would you a ball winner in the full forward line....good strength and pace"
You can have all the ball winners you want but if you don't kick it into them what's the point?
We have averaged 14/15 points in all out games and that's not enough to win big games.
If you look at the Monaghan , galway even Tipperary and mayo scoring returns from their full forward line you will see it's way superior than Cavans.
The inside forward line are starved.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 15/06/2017 13:49:39    1999939

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Not true on Mayo. It's mainly their half back line, when fit and available, Keegan, Boyle and Durcan who chip in with a few scores or break the tackles and win frees in scoring positions for Cillian O Connor. Andy Moran not a heavy scorer

Galway, and Tipperary have better quality inside forwards, who can win ball, Comer, Armstrong, Quinlivan, Sweeney.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2545 - 15/06/2017 14:30:13    1999960

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Replying To FoolsGold:  "Not true on Mayo. It's mainly their half back line, when fit and available, Keegan, Boyle and Durcan who chip in with a few scores or break the tackles and win frees in scoring positions for Cillian O Connor. Andy Moran not a heavy scorer

Galway, and Tipperary have better quality inside forwards, who can win ball, Comer, Armstrong, Quinlivan, Sweeney."
Well now fools gold Mayo inside forward line scored 1-8 out of 1-11 last sunday and even though they lost I'd say that's a fairly good return for inside forward line .
The quality of the inside forward line can only be judged on the firstly the amount of ball they get and secondly on the scoring return .
Our inside forward don't get much quality so therefore their scoring return is low.
Give them the quality ball and blame them when they don't convert the chances.

Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 15/06/2017 15:38:26    1999995

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Replying To theweanling:  "Another point that is probably worth making is that when you remember back to Monaghan back in 2006- 2011 they had a lot of players like the freemans, clerkin, Finlay, mone, Mc Quaid. All good players but until they got the relevant experience they never could break through. A few lads Like the Hughes, MC manus, Walsh, beggan and wylie came along that really made them click. I see Cavan as being at the stage Monaghan we're back then. In a few years we'll have huge experience coupled with young ambitious players to hopefully smooth the thing out. The likes of gearoid, killian, moynagh, Faulkner all came in to a panel with very little or no experience. They'll hopefully be the leaders like clerkin and Finlay in years to come. That's the hope anyway."
Another point that is probably worth making is that when you remember back to Monaghan back in 2006- 2011 they had a lot of players like the freemans, clerkin, Finlay, mone, Mc Quaid. All good players but until they got the relevant experience they never could break through. A few lads Like the Hughes, MC manus, Walsh, beggan and wylie came along that really made them click. I see Cavan as being at the stage Monaghan we're back then. In a few years we'll have huge experience coupled with young ambitious players to hopefully smooth the thing out. The likes of gearoid, killian, moynagh, Faulkner all came in to a panel with very little or no experience. They'll hopefully be the leaders like clerkin and Finlay in years to come. That's the hope anyway.

theweanling (Cavan)


The point you make is true but you also have to recognise that in the older players you mention at least 2...Tommy Freeman & Jap Finlay were top class forwards & that is Cavan's problem at the moment ......lack of....nothing much wrong at midfield or in defense !

Shelbourne (Monaghan) - Posts: 567 - 15/06/2017 16:50:30    2000024

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Replying To blueman1903:  "Definitely McManus should have been on his backside, he wouldn't have danced by Damian o reilly of mullahoran or ciaran Brady of gowna in there day or Morris.have to get tougher man up, not be dirty just physical. None more so than g mckiernan"
I don't really get Mattie's fantastic and fabulous talk, maybe it is just to keep the players motivated. It has been a huge step up from managing club football for him and I don't think he realises it yet. I still think this team can go places- in my view they need to get more rootless (Moynagh for example should of left McManus sitting when he was coming through) and stop this lateral passing when clearly better options are on. I don't know why Johnston was left of the pitch for the full 70- surely he is an impact sub at this stage

McGiolla (Cavan) - Posts:25 - 15/06/2017 07:49:50

I did not hear Mattie's talk but I personally feel he is right to a degree. I feel that he feels as I do we left this game behind us and if you take time to read my earlier post we started loosing even before we lined out on the pitch with our starting fifteen and kicked a ball throughout the game. Position changes during the game even if you never made a substitution should have been the order of the day. One thing I agree with the difference in both half's the distance the Monaghan goalkeeper could kick the ball how many times did his kicks reach the oppositions 40 meter line thats a total off 97 & 1/2 meters . I said it when I saw the starting 15 we were in trouble.
I will say this but I suppose lambasted for it Joe Dillion has a huge heart a fantastic intelligent player and will out jump any six foot man for a ball this is facts for I have watched him at club level from underage right up to senior level and my opinion will not change on him. I am not a selector nor am I involved but if I was involved he would be my number one of 15 any day. I know Jack Brady is small as well but he too is similar to Joe and they both are too live wires with ton's of heart. We go on about size well if size cannot play I would rather have fourteen 5'7" players any day.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 15/06/2017 17:06:18    2000032

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Replying To seanorinn:  "I don't really get Mattie's fantastic and fabulous talk, maybe it is just to keep the players motivated. It has been a huge step up from managing club football for him and I don't think he realises it yet. I still think this team can go places- in my view they need to get more rootless (Moynagh for example should of left McManus sitting when he was coming through) and stop this lateral passing when clearly better options are on. I don't know why Johnston was left of the pitch for the full 70- surely he is an impact sub at this stage

McGiolla (Cavan) - Posts:25 - 15/06/2017 07:49:50

I did not hear Mattie's talk but I personally feel he is right to a degree. I feel that he feels as I do we left this game behind us and if you take time to read my earlier post we started loosing even before we lined out on the pitch with our starting fifteen and kicked a ball throughout the game. Position changes during the game even if you never made a substitution should have been the order of the day. One thing I agree with the difference in both half's the distance the Monaghan goalkeeper could kick the ball how many times did his kicks reach the oppositions 40 meter line thats a total off 97 & 1/2 meters . I said it when I saw the starting 15 we were in trouble.
I will say this but I suppose lambasted for it Joe Dillion has a huge heart a fantastic intelligent player and will out jump any six foot man for a ball this is facts for I have watched him at club level from underage right up to senior level and my opinion will not change on him. I am not a selector nor am I involved but if I was involved he would be my number one of 15 any day. I know Jack Brady is small as well but he too is similar to Joe and they both are too live wires with ton's of heart. We go on about size well if size cannot play I would rather have fourteen 5'7" players any day."
Snorefest....lets rewind and play the game again, if only we did this and that. Lets not forget, what if Monaghan took their goal chances, or what if they did this and that...blah blah blah.

Cavan were beaten by the better team, Monaghan are a Division one team, Cavan are a Division 2 team, end of.

cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 489 - 15/06/2017 17:16:14    2000039

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Replying To cavanblueman:  "Snorefest....lets rewind and play the game again, if only we did this and that. Lets not forget, what if Monaghan took their goal chances, or what if they did this and that...blah blah blah.

Cavan were beaten by the better team, Monaghan are a Division one team, Cavan are a Division 2 team, end of."
Monaghan are a Division one team, Cavan are a Division 2 team, end of.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts:126 - 15/06/2017 17:16:14 2000039


Yes Monaghan are division 1 and yes Cavan are division 2 and to be honest that's the only thing you got right.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 15/06/2017 18:10:59    2000058

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Replying To Shelbourne:  "Another point that is probably worth making is that when you remember back to Monaghan back in 2006- 2011 they had a lot of players like the freemans, clerkin, Finlay, mone, Mc Quaid. All good players but until they got the relevant experience they never could break through. A few lads Like the Hughes, MC manus, Walsh, beggan and wylie came along that really made them click. I see Cavan as being at the stage Monaghan we're back then. In a few years we'll have huge experience coupled with young ambitious players to hopefully smooth the thing out. The likes of gearoid, killian, moynagh, Faulkner all came in to a panel with very little or no experience. They'll hopefully be the leaders like clerkin and Finlay in years to come. That's the hope anyway.

theweanling (Cavan)


The point you make is true but you also have to recognise that in the older players you mention at least 2...Tommy Freeman & Jap Finlay were top class forwards & that is Cavan's problem at the moment ......lack of....nothing much wrong at midfield or in defense !"
yeah thats true and i agree with you there for sure. but in this instance i suppose i'm referring to the time it takes for players to become leaders after coming into squads that had none. those lads in Monaghan walked into squads that had little or no leadership which is the same as when mc kiernan etc came into the Cavan squad. But definitely Monaghan were blessed with two class forwards there

theweanling (Cavan) - Posts: 414 - 15/06/2017 18:40:52    2000071

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Replying To seanorinn:  "I don't really get Mattie's fantastic and fabulous talk, maybe it is just to keep the players motivated. It has been a huge step up from managing club football for him and I don't think he realises it yet. I still think this team can go places- in my view they need to get more rootless (Moynagh for example should of left McManus sitting when he was coming through) and stop this lateral passing when clearly better options are on. I don't know why Johnston was left of the pitch for the full 70- surely he is an impact sub at this stage

McGiolla (Cavan) - Posts:25 - 15/06/2017 07:49:50

I did not hear Mattie's talk but I personally feel he is right to a degree. I feel that he feels as I do we left this game behind us and if you take time to read my earlier post we started loosing even before we lined out on the pitch with our starting fifteen and kicked a ball throughout the game. Position changes during the game even if you never made a substitution should have been the order of the day. One thing I agree with the difference in both half's the distance the Monaghan goalkeeper could kick the ball how many times did his kicks reach the oppositions 40 meter line thats a total off 97 & 1/2 meters . I said it when I saw the starting 15 we were in trouble.
I will say this but I suppose lambasted for it Joe Dillion has a huge heart a fantastic intelligent player and will out jump any six foot man for a ball this is facts for I have watched him at club level from underage right up to senior level and my opinion will not change on him. I am not a selector nor am I involved but if I was involved he would be my number one of 15 any day. I know Jack Brady is small as well but he too is similar to Joe and they both are too live wires with ton's of heart. We go on about size well if size cannot play I would rather have fourteen 5'7" players any day."
I fully agree with that, joe dillion for me starts all the time. Fantastic footballer with everything we are lacking . H.e.a.r.t

blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 836 - 15/06/2017 19:11:46    2000084

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I couldn't agree more with Seanorinn and Blue man. Joe Dillon should always start. A great man to win the ball when kicked in to him. He was started in one game only, that was against Roscommon. Three balls were kicked in to him and he won all three. For some reason he was moved out to wing half forward in second half, a mad move by management. To my way of thinking , Management and selectors have not a clue how to pick or place a team. Cavan Gaels or Ramor could beat the team that started on Sunday.

luckyduck (Cavan) - Posts: 3 - 15/06/2017 23:10:16    2000158

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Replying To luckyduck:  "I couldn't agree more with Seanorinn and Blue man. Joe Dillon should always start. A great man to win the ball when kicked in to him. He was started in one game only, that was against Roscommon. Three balls were kicked in to him and he won all three. For some reason he was moved out to wing half forward in second half, a mad move by management. To my way of thinking , Management and selectors have not a clue how to pick or place a team. Cavan Gaels or Ramor could beat the team that started on Sunday."
correct a great man to win the ball WHEN KICKED into him. The problem is this does not happen. i pity any player who has to play in the full forward line for cavan as they are starved off any kind of ball never mind quality ball

Breffni81 (Cavan) - Posts: 175 - 16/06/2017 12:21:28    2000298

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Replying To Breffni81:  "correct a great man to win the ball WHEN KICKED into him. The problem is this does not happen. i pity any player who has to play in the full forward line for cavan as they are starved off any kind of ball never mind quality ball"
correct a great man to win the ball WHEN KICKED into him. The problem is this does not happen. i pity any player who has to play in the full forward line for cavan as they are starved off any kind of ball never mind quality ball
Breffni81 (Cavan) - Posts:80 - 16/06/2017 12:21:28 2000298

Joe Dillion is willing to work for the ball and also willing to work in any position that he is placed in. I do agree the forwards were starved who do you blame for that. ??? I saw Seannie at corner back at one stage ??? He was not going to do a lot of damage to the score board there???

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 16/06/2017 16:30:57    2000418

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Replying To seanorinn:  "correct a great man to win the ball WHEN KICKED into him. The problem is this does not happen. i pity any player who has to play in the full forward line for cavan as they are starved off any kind of ball never mind quality ball
Breffni81 (Cavan) - Posts:80 - 16/06/2017 12:21:28 2000298

Joe Dillion is willing to work for the ball and also willing to work in any position that he is placed in. I do agree the forwards were starved who do you blame for that. ??? I saw Seannie at corner back at one stage ??? He was not going to do a lot of damage to the score board there???"
Seanorinn....you are totally correct so it's no wonder players especially forwards end up leaving the panel .... There will be less and less people paying in to watch that rubbish...and who would blame them

Sean.66 (Cavan) - Posts: 293 - 16/06/2017 20:10:49    2000481

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