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Roscommon U20 Footballers 2020

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Can anyone tell me what credentials did the current u20 manager have that led him to getting this job?
This team got a lucky break at the time of the change of the Minor age from 18 to 17 when other counties did not have the full pick of their players, and apart from that, what success had he as a Club manager that led him to taking an u20 County team. Also was'nt Peter Carney instrumental in the success of the team that year.

rosco7 (Roscommon)


His credentials was working with a number of these players at U15, U16, U17 level. 2016 he was part of the management that won the Fr Manning cup and that success led him to getting the U17 gig the following year . Can we stop trying to belittle what was achieved at U17 level. Against the odds we beat a strong Galway and Kerry teams and fully deserved to do so. Tyrone in the final proved a bridge too far and since a lot of their players have gone on to win Ulster U20 titles.

Have already given my view on the loss of Peter Carney and I don't we had anyone of his quality on this U20 management team. He's doing coaching for the county board at development level and I think isn't allowed to be involved with county management teams apart from U16 or younger now.

While it would be nice to win trophies at underage level the main focus is always developing players and hope to get 3 or 4 players out of each team that can make the step up senior level, obviously Saturdays trimming doesn't help but I would still have high hopes that a handful of the 20 players that featured in Tuam will become good and established senior footballers in the years ahead.

ispeakwisdom (Roscommon) - Posts: 2411 - 09/03/2020 13:48:22    2273025

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Replying To rosco7:  "You would have to feel a bit of sympathy for these young players. Management have to take the blame for this terrible effort. Watching the game it was not apparant as to what our game plan was and it appeared that the players themselves did not know what was going on. Once again this sets the underage structure in Roscommon back another few steps. The Co. Board have taken their eye off the ball once more and are more interested in fundraising than the development of our young teams. I have said it before and i will say it again that this Co. Board are one dimensional and while yes we can praise them for the fundraising efforts, it should not be done at the detriment of the development of players which is exactly what is going on here.

Can anyone tell me what credentials did the current u20 manager have that led him to getting this job?
This team got a lucky break at the time of the change of the Minor age from 18 to 17 when other counties did not have the full pick of their players, and apart from that, what success had he as a Club manager that led him to taking an u20 County team. Also was'nt Peter Carney instrumental in the success of the team that year. What manager lets a team losing by 5 points out of a dressing room at half-time after just 6 minutes. This to me said it all - was it the case that he did not know what to say to them or how to communicate with them because the team certainly did not have a game plan coming into the second half.

We can look at the new positions that have been filled in the past number of years with Development Officers both at men and ladies level, S&C coach etc. but who is actually monitoring what these employees are actually doing? What evidence is there that this work is being undertaken?
What evidence is there that Development is ongoing in our county and not just for a small number of months during the Summer?
What evidence is there that Strength and Conditioning programs are rolled out to all the underage county teams?

I fear for what is going to happen down the road. Will it be a case that when we do have top class facilities, that we will be 10 years behind in the development of players?"
Agree with some of that, Sure Oliver Lennon is one of the G.P.O's within the county and i am sure he is well up to date in coaching courses and has all the stuff done but he never played football himself, Surely someone in a back ground of having played football would be better suited to the roll?

sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 606 - 09/03/2020 13:57:48    2273027

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Replying To ispeakwisdom:  "Can anyone tell me what credentials did the current u20 manager have that led him to getting this job?
This team got a lucky break at the time of the change of the Minor age from 18 to 17 when other counties did not have the full pick of their players, and apart from that, what success had he as a Club manager that led him to taking an u20 County team. Also was'nt Peter Carney instrumental in the success of the team that year.

rosco7 (Roscommon)


His credentials was working with a number of these players at U15, U16, U17 level. 2016 he was part of the management that won the Fr Manning cup and that success led him to getting the U17 gig the following year . Can we stop trying to belittle what was achieved at U17 level. Against the odds we beat a strong Galway and Kerry teams and fully deserved to do so. Tyrone in the final proved a bridge too far and since a lot of their players have gone on to win Ulster U20 titles.

Have already given my view on the loss of Peter Carney and I don't we had anyone of his quality on this U20 management team. He's doing coaching for the county board at development level and I think isn't allowed to be involved with county management teams apart from U16 or younger now.

While it would be nice to win trophies at underage level the main focus is always developing players and hope to get 3 or 4 players out of each team that can make the step up senior level, obviously Saturdays trimming doesn't help but I would still have high hopes that a handful of the 20 players that featured in Tuam will become good and established senior footballers in the years ahead."
I am sorry but the credentials you outlined are not good enough for what is now basically a senior team. What success from Club teams did he bring to the table?

Young lads bodies at 14,15,16,17 all develop at different levels and it is at U20 level that we should see a more balanced bunch of players playing together after a good strength and conditioning program behind them. This is not what we saw on Saturday when we looked at the Roscommon team. However, it was plain to see when looking at Mayo and Galway how far we are behind in these stakes.

"Against the odds we beat a strong Galway and Kerry teams and fully deserved to do so" - what was the difference then on Saturday up against the same Galway team. How can you justify your comments in relation to the management when we have gone backwards with the same team and up against the same opposition in the space of 2-3 years. What your saying simply does not make sense.

All will be grand again in a few weeks time when Club Championship starts up and we start admiring these young lads playing in their own back yard and the media will be telling us how good they played and the exceptional players they are. The Back Yard is one thing but the step up to Co. Level is a much different progression and Roscommon county have failed in that regard.

rosco7 (Roscommon) - Posts: 12 - 09/03/2020 17:26:17    2273100

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Replying To rosco7:  "
Replying To ispeakwisdom:  "Can anyone tell me what credentials did the current u20 manager have that led him to getting this job?
This team got a lucky break at the time of the change of the Minor age from 18 to 17 when other counties did not have the full pick of their players, and apart from that, what success had he as a Club manager that led him to taking an u20 County team. Also was'nt Peter Carney instrumental in the success of the team that year.

rosco7 (Roscommon)


His credentials was working with a number of these players at U15, U16, U17 level. 2016 he was part of the management that won the Fr Manning cup and that success led him to getting the U17 gig the following year . Can we stop trying to belittle what was achieved at U17 level. Against the odds we beat a strong Galway and Kerry teams and fully deserved to do so. Tyrone in the final proved a bridge too far and since a lot of their players have gone on to win Ulster U20 titles.

Have already given my view on the loss of Peter Carney and I don't we had anyone of his quality on this U20 management team. He's doing coaching for the county board at development level and I think isn't allowed to be involved with county management teams apart from U16 or younger now.

While it would be nice to win trophies at underage level the main focus is always developing players and hope to get 3 or 4 players out of each team that can make the step up senior level, obviously Saturdays trimming doesn't help but I would still have high hopes that a handful of the 20 players that featured in Tuam will become good and established senior footballers in the years ahead."
I am sorry but the credentials you outlined are not good enough for what is now basically a senior team. What success from Club teams did he bring to the table?

Young lads bodies at 14,15,16,17 all develop at different levels and it is at U20 level that we should see a more balanced bunch of players playing together after a good strength and conditioning program behind them. This is not what we saw on Saturday when we looked at the Roscommon team. However, it was plain to see when looking at Mayo and Galway how far we are behind in these stakes.

"Against the odds we beat a strong Galway and Kerry teams and fully deserved to do so" - what was the difference then on Saturday up against the same Galway team. How can you justify your comments in relation to the management when we have gone backwards with the same team and up against the same opposition in the space of 2-3 years. What your saying simply does not make sense.

All will be grand again in a few weeks time when Club Championship starts up and we start admiring these young lads playing in their own back yard and the media will be telling us how good they played and the exceptional players they are. The Back Yard is one thing but the step up to Co. Level is a much different progression and Roscommon county have failed in that regard."
For some reason my last post didn't go through so here's my second attempt.

I'm not sure how you class players aged 17,18, 19 years old who are still learning and developing as footballers as basically senior? U20 isn't near the level that U21 use to be, a grade that should never have been scrapped IMO for this replacement competition.

It wasn't the same Galway team as on Saturday they had mostly their 2018 minors and a few of last years minors. A group of Galway players that played in and was competitive in All Ireland finals against Cork and Kerry. We only had 6 starters from our 2017 U17 team on Saturday Cunnane was another brought on when the game was already lost. BTW at the start of January we drew with a full strength Mayo team but that's forgotten about now.

Plenty of players have gone on to be good and established county seniors after disappointing underage results and regardless of last Saturday very poor display/result I'm still hopeful a few of the current U20 players can do that in the years ahead.

ispeakwisdom (Roscommon) - Posts: 2411 - 10/03/2020 00:08:20    2273173

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Replying To rosco7:  "
Replying To ispeakwisdom:  "Can anyone tell me what credentials did the current u20 manager have that led him to getting this job?
This team got a lucky break at the time of the change of the Minor age from 18 to 17 when other counties did not have the full pick of their players, and apart from that, what success had he as a Club manager that led him to taking an u20 County team. Also was'nt Peter Carney instrumental in the success of the team that year.

rosco7 (Roscommon)


His credentials was working with a number of these players at U15, U16, U17 level. 2016 he was part of the management that won the Fr Manning cup and that success led him to getting the U17 gig the following year . Can we stop trying to belittle what was achieved at U17 level. Against the odds we beat a strong Galway and Kerry teams and fully deserved to do so. Tyrone in the final proved a bridge too far and since a lot of their players have gone on to win Ulster U20 titles.

Have already given my view on the loss of Peter Carney and I don't we had anyone of his quality on this U20 management team. He's doing coaching for the county board at development level and I think isn't allowed to be involved with county management teams apart from U16 or younger now.

While it would be nice to win trophies at underage level the main focus is always developing players and hope to get 3 or 4 players out of each team that can make the step up senior level, obviously Saturdays trimming doesn't help but I would still have high hopes that a handful of the 20 players that featured in Tuam will become good and established senior footballers in the years ahead."
I am sorry but the credentials you outlined are not good enough for what is now basically a senior team. What success from Club teams did he bring to the table?

Young lads bodies at 14,15,16,17 all develop at different levels and it is at U20 level that we should see a more balanced bunch of players playing together after a good strength and conditioning program behind them. This is not what we saw on Saturday when we looked at the Roscommon team. However, it was plain to see when looking at Mayo and Galway how far we are behind in these stakes.

"Against the odds we beat a strong Galway and Kerry teams and fully deserved to do so" - what was the difference then on Saturday up against the same Galway team. How can you justify your comments in relation to the management when we have gone backwards with the same team and up against the same opposition in the space of 2-3 years. What your saying simply does not make sense.

All will be grand again in a few weeks time when Club Championship starts up and we start admiring these young lads playing in their own back yard and the media will be telling us how good they played and the exceptional players they are. The Back Yard is one thing but the step up to Co. Level is a much different progression and Roscommon county have failed in that regard."
Yes those credentials are good enough to be manager of that U 20 team. also what in the name of god are you on about saying it basically senior it is nowhere near senior its a joke of a competition bet into the calendar it should be scrapped and the old u21 brought back which was a brilliant competition.

Then you ask about club success he won an intermiediate in lonford with rathcline in 2018 do abit of research before slating someone.

In regard to strength and condition coaching i dont see what that has to do with liam tully he was only appointed in October and the u20 team were put on a strength and condition program from then on but your not going to make lads big a strong in such a short period.

That is a county board issue when these players finished with liam tully they should have been put on a programme and tracked for their development, to get players to a good level of strength and condition it takes a number of years not afew months that liam.

I dont know him personnally but all the blame going onto him is abit rich.

Yes it was an awful display. Were the tactics right prob not but there are many more issues at play and one of them is the development of players from the u17 panel to u20 which i repeat has nothing to do with liam tully

Tarismelting22 (Roscommon) - Posts: 595 - 10/03/2020 10:06:46    2273189

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Replying To Tarismelting22:  "
Replying To rosco7:  "[quote=ispeakwisdom:  "Can anyone tell me what credentials did the current u20 manager have that led him to getting this job?
This team got a lucky break at the time of the change of the Minor age from 18 to 17 when other counties did not have the full pick of their players, and apart from that, what success had he as a Club manager that led him to taking an u20 County team. Also was'nt Peter Carney instrumental in the success of the team that year.

rosco7 (Roscommon)


His credentials was working with a number of these players at U15, U16, U17 level. 2016 he was part of the management that won the Fr Manning cup and that success led him to getting the U17 gig the following year . Can we stop trying to belittle what was achieved at U17 level. Against the odds we beat a strong Galway and Kerry teams and fully deserved to do so. Tyrone in the final proved a bridge too far and since a lot of their players have gone on to win Ulster U20 titles.

Have already given my view on the loss of Peter Carney and I don't we had anyone of his quality on this U20 management team. He's doing coaching for the county board at development level and I think isn't allowed to be involved with county management teams apart from U16 or younger now.

While it would be nice to win trophies at underage level the main focus is always developing players and hope to get 3 or 4 players out of each team that can make the step up senior level, obviously Saturdays trimming doesn't help but I would still have high hopes that a handful of the 20 players that featured in Tuam will become good and established senior footballers in the years ahead."
I am sorry but the credentials you outlined are not good enough for what is now basically a senior team. What success from Club teams did he bring to the table?

Young lads bodies at 14,15,16,17 all develop at different levels and it is at U20 level that we should see a more balanced bunch of players playing together after a good strength and conditioning program behind them. This is not what we saw on Saturday when we looked at the Roscommon team. However, it was plain to see when looking at Mayo and Galway how far we are behind in these stakes.

"Against the odds we beat a strong Galway and Kerry teams and fully deserved to do so" - what was the difference then on Saturday up against the same Galway team. How can you justify your comments in relation to the management when we have gone backwards with the same team and up against the same opposition in the space of 2-3 years. What your saying simply does not make sense.

All will be grand again in a few weeks time when Club Championship starts up and we start admiring these young lads playing in their own back yard and the media will be telling us how good they played and the exceptional players they are. The Back Yard is one thing but the step up to Co. Level is a much different progression and Roscommon county have failed in that regard."
Yes those credentials are good enough to be manager of that U 20 team. also what in the name of god are you on about saying it basically senior it is nowhere near senior its a joke of a competition bet into the calendar it should be scrapped and the old u21 brought back which was a brilliant competition.

Then you ask about club success he won an intermiediate in lonford with rathcline in 2018 do abit of research before slating someone.

In regard to strength and condition coaching i dont see what that has to do with liam tully he was only appointed in October and the u20 team were put on a strength and condition program from then on but your not going to make lads big a strong in such a short period.

That is a county board issue when these players finished with liam tully they should have been put on a programme and tracked for their development, to get players to a good level of strength and condition it takes a number of years not afew months that liam.

I dont know him personnally but all the blame going onto him is abit rich.

Yes it was an awful display. Were the tactics right prob not but there are many more issues at play and one of them is the development of players from the u17 panel to u20 which i repeat has nothing to do with liam tully"]Excuse me but there are far more slating comments here in relation to the manager than the ones I have provided. I am not here to slate anyone but the facts are clear that this team went out on a pitch last Saturday and they looked like rabbits in headlights to be honest. There is no getting away from that and the point I made in relation to a senior competition is that fact that these lads are mostly not 18 19 and 20 years of age and are no longer young teenagers. Its a man's game at u20 and the fact is that we are still trying to play a boy's game at this level.

You or I could have rounded up 15 players on the verge of getting on that team and put up a better performance than what was displayed last Saturday. Were you at the game? How many tackles did you see our lads make? How many times did you see the Galway players running through? With a strong wind in our favour why was one of our main talisman not put onto the pitch? I just despair at some of the comments on here. Well time to speak up and let the County Board know that they are doing an injustice to our young players.

rosco7 (Roscommon) - Posts: 12 - 10/03/2020 11:14:34    2273200

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that fact that these lads are mostly not 18 19 and 20 years of age and are no longer young teenagers.
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Most in action on Saturday was teenagers which included a few 17 year olds. U20 is far from senior and I'd agree with others it's a poor man's U21 competition.

Yondu (UK) - Posts: 343 - 10/03/2020 12:43:55    2273219

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Replying To Yondu:  "that fact that these lads are mostly not 18 19 and 20 years of age and are no longer young teenagers.
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Most in action on Saturday was teenagers which included a few 17 year olds. U20 is far from senior and I'd agree with others it's a poor man's U21 competition."
Only 3 of the Roscommon starting team was aged 20 a few others turn 20 at the end of the year. So it was mostly teenagers in action.

One or two needs to cool the jets on here. Even our senior footballers have suffered simliar beatings and baby wasn't thrown out with the bath water. Nobody died, you live and learn from it and for all we know last Saturday could be a blessing in disguise for many of these young Roscommon players.

The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 2786 - 10/03/2020 13:28:13    2273226

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Replying To The_analyser:  "Only 3 of the Roscommon starting team was aged 20 a few others turn 20 at the end of the year. So it was mostly teenagers in action.

One or two needs to cool the jets on here. Even our senior footballers have suffered simliar beatings and baby wasn't thrown out with the bath water. Nobody died, you live and learn from it and for all we know last Saturday could be a blessing in disguise for many of these young Roscommon players."
I don't think anyone on here is laying the blame on the players, the problem this year was management or the lack of. The manager's position needs to be reviewed and to be honest if he will have to provide a very good case to be kept in the role next year. This way the team has been poorly prepared this year and presented for a Connaught final is sufficient to be looking for a new management team now.

rossno1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 277 - 10/03/2020 21:59:02    2273311

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Replying To rossno1:  "I don't think anyone on here is laying the blame on the players, the problem this year was management or the lack of. The manager's position needs to be reviewed and to be honest if he will have to provide a very good case to be kept in the role next year. This way the team has been poorly prepared this year and presented for a Connaught final is sufficient to be looking for a new management team now."
My point was directed at the fella that thought the majority of our team last Saturday was 20 year olds.

Managements lack of a game plan and how poorly they set us up in defence contributed to that big defeat. The players will be the first to admit they made a mountain of errors and couldn't adjust to the weather conditions like Galway did. Their heads dropped too soon also but this can happen especially at underage level.

Hope I'm wrong but regardless who is Roscommon U20 manager next year I can't see us winning Connacht however if we are to play Galway again a more competitive display should be the objective.

The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 2786 - 10/03/2020 23:53:41    2273325

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Replying To The_analyser:  "My point was directed at the fella that thought the majority of our team last Saturday was 20 year olds.

Managements lack of a game plan and how poorly they set us up in defence contributed to that big defeat. The players will be the first to admit they made a mountain of errors and couldn't adjust to the weather conditions like Galway did. Their heads dropped too soon also but this can happen especially at underage level.

Hope I'm wrong but regardless who is Roscommon U20 manager next year I can't see us winning Connacht however if we are to play Galway again a more competitive display should be the objective."
I am always amazed at how some posters on here go out of their way to dwell on a small part of my post and then do their best to misinterept what I have said. There is a difference between young teenagers (which is the term I used) and those turning 19 and 20 this year.

Have a look at the program from Saturday. I make it that 10 of the starters are all 20 this year. 15 of the 24 named are 20 this year and are finished at underage level. 9 of the 24 are u20 next year and I believe that there were more of the Galway team in this bracket. U20 is regarded as a Senior Competition. With Minor referring to U17, well Senior is anyone over that age.

Don't see anyone addressing the main point to my post here in relation to the development/S&C staff employed by the Co. Board and what value for money is being achieved here. This is the crux of the issue - i do not believe we are getting value for money here. Take Willie for instance - what is his actual role in Roscommon

It is encouraging to read the reaction from some of our local press people and the questions they are also raising in relation to some of these issues.

One last point a poster on here stated that Liam Tully is on record as saying that there is no development work being done at underage in Roscommon, yet another poster gives Tully's credentials as having worked with this group of players from 14,15,16,17. Does the book not stop there??

If Tully thinks there is no development work been done for the last number of years - what actually do the Development officers that are employed by the County Board do??

rosco7 (Roscommon) - Posts: 12 - 11/03/2020 10:22:04    2273346

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Young or old teenagers the facts are they are lads at that age still leaving and developing and as much as you like to think U20 is not senior football.

There is the few lads that just finished with the U20s and can make the step up to senior straight away however for the rest senior county is a big step up more so now since the U21 grade was foolishly scrapped, take Cian McKeon for example. McStay put him onto the senior panel when he was still U20 and he found it very difficult to make any impact its only now that he's adjusted to senior inter County.

Kildare won the U20 All Ireland in 2018 and as of yet none of those players have become established senior footballers. If U20 was senior football as you claim then surely at least 5 of that Kildare team should be starting and starring for them in Division 2 right now?

The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 2786 - 11/03/2020 12:51:04    2273372

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Young or old teenagers the facts are lads at that age still are leaving and developing and as much as you like to think U20 is not senior football.

There is the few lads that just finished with the U20s and can make the step up to senior straight away however for the rest senior county is a big step up more so now since the U21 grade was foolishly scrapped, take Cian McKeon for example. McStay put him onto the senior panel when he was still U20 and he found it very difficult to make any impact its only now that he's adjusted to senior inter County.

Kildare won the U20 All Ireland in 2018 and as of yet none of those players have become established senior footballers. If U20 was senior football as you claim then surely at least 5 of that Kildare team should be starting and starring for them in Division 2 right now?

The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 2786 - 11/03/2020 14:14:32    2273389

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Replying To rosco7:  "I am always amazed at how some posters on here go out of their way to dwell on a small part of my post and then do their best to misinterept what I have said. There is a difference between young teenagers (which is the term I used) and those turning 19 and 20 this year.

Have a look at the program from Saturday. I make it that 10 of the starters are all 20 this year. 15 of the 24 named are 20 this year and are finished at underage level. 9 of the 24 are u20 next year and I believe that there were more of the Galway team in this bracket. U20 is regarded as a Senior Competition. With Minor referring to U17, well Senior is anyone over that age.

Don't see anyone addressing the main point to my post here in relation to the development/S&C staff employed by the Co. Board and what value for money is being achieved here. This is the crux of the issue - i do not believe we are getting value for money here. Take Willie for instance - what is his actual role in Roscommon

It is encouraging to read the reaction from some of our local press people and the questions they are also raising in relation to some of these issues.

One last point a poster on here stated that Liam Tully is on record as saying that there is no development work being done at underage in Roscommon, yet another poster gives Tully's credentials as having worked with this group of players from 14,15,16,17. Does the book not stop there??

If Tully thinks there is no development work been done for the last number of years - what actually do the Development officers that are employed by the County Board do??"
Excellent post .

moros (Roscommon) - Posts: 1002 - 12/03/2020 08:40:18    2273507

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