TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 4822

Mayo had 6 less fouls than donegal in the game, and while mayo got 5 yellow cards, donegal got 1. Clearly our 'fouling system' is not up to that of donegals, so what game you were looking at I dont know. Furthermore our 2 early yellow cards werent for cynical fouls, but for rash obvious ones.

I would have to disagree with you here Master. The reason Mayo got 5 yellow cards as opposed to Donegal's one was that the nature of the frees concerned merited them. Indeed one of the yellows, Cillian O'Connor's, could easily have been a red. And the 2 early yellows were as cynical as they come, just badly disguised.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 25/09/2012 17:31:02    1272652

MuckrossHead
I would have to disagree with you here Master. The reason Mayo got 5 yellow cards as opposed to Donegal's one was that the nature of the frees concerned merited them. Indeed one of the yellows, Cillian O'Connor's, could easily have been a red. And the 2 early yellows were as cynical as they come, just badly disguised.

That is my point Muckross, the tackles were yellow card tackles. Now how was doing that being cynical, as opposed to just daft? How is putting in an obvious high tackle going to do anything else but put your team under pressure? Donegal's fouls were strategically carried out as mayo won possession in the middle to allow them to get back into position. Not one of them was bad enough to warrant a card. The fouls served the team and mayo's chance to break behind the curtain was gone. As you pointed out O'Connor raised his hand, what part of that is cynical and not stupid?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 25/09/2012 17:49:13    1272671

mayo fans are deluded here! u lost the final in 11 mins flat! all year every one knew that 2 go 2 pts down too donegal wud be a big ask to come back and win never mind 7 pts!! 2nd best team! dont make me laugh! id put the house on kerry or cork to beat use if u were to play them next week in the championship!!

reece (Tyrone) - Posts: 30 - 25/09/2012 18:26:34    1272706

jimbodub u really are gonna have to get over the fact that we were much too good for ur dubs this year. Come on man! I know it hurts but its ridiculous at this stage, get over it, ye'll have a chance again next year dont worry

whiterbannnas (Mayo) - Posts: 2441 - 25/09/2012 18:50:44    1272723

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 4825

1272671 MuckrossHead

That is my point Muckross, the tackles were yellow card tackles. Now how was doing that being cynical, as opposed to just daft? How is putting in an obvious high tackle going to do anything else but put your team under pressure? Donegal's fouls were strategically carried out as mayo won possession in the middle to allow them to get back into position. Not one of them was bad enough to warrant a card. The fouls served the team and mayo's chance to break behind the curtain was gone. As you pointed out O'Connor raised his hand, what part of that is cynical and not stupid?

A tackle doesn't have to be well carried out as opposed to daft or clumsy to make it cynical. The first two yellows were for tackles that went unpunished in the Dublin game. The purpose behind them was to stop the counter attack which makes them cynical in my book.
I would also have to say that I was pleased to see Deegan punishing messing at free kick time on a number of occasions by moving the ball up 13 metres, even though most of the calls were against Donegal. I don't like this stuff and if anything I would move the ball up 30 metres. I would also punish yellow card offences by a 14 yard free. The only way to put a stop to all this stuff is to get tough.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 25/09/2012 18:52:22    1272726

Despite all the plaudits, we still failed on the big day....again. Were it Kerry or Cork, i'm not convinced we could handle those two either on final day.

Mayoforever (Mayo) - Posts: 142 - 25/09/2012 19:14:40    1272743

mayo would have lost if it was cork or kerry as well i feel well especially kerry..this cork team are a bit of a watery bunch and im not a fan of counihan

ffgg (Longford) - Posts: 2571 - 25/09/2012 19:18:14    1272751

Well look on the bright side Ulster sides struggled for years in Croke Park against those same teams but eventually made the breakthrough. It's believing that you can beat the top sides, a lot of it is mental. Sometimes Mayo looked beaten before they played Kerry and Cork but this year they didn't against Dublin or Down. It must be a choker all the same for Mayo fans.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9825 - 25/09/2012 19:21:40    1272756

Was in Westport today they went a little bit over the top,pubs still had up winning party Sunday night all welcome.Talk about putting your foot in it

Dublin09 (Dublin) - Posts: 433 - 25/09/2012 20:08:44    1272796

MuckrossHead
A tackle doesn't have to be well carried out as opposed to daft or clumsy to make it cynical. The first two yellows were for tackles that went unpunished in the Dublin game. The purpose behind them was to stop the counter attack which makes them cynical in my book.

But surely, the very fact that they were clearly yellow cards tackles means that mayo werent cynical enough in comparison to donegal, who done the same thing, didnt get the cards and carried it out out of scoring range? Also, I dont think we got away with any high tackles like that against dublin. Maybe we have differing views on cynical play, but the most cynical systematic play I can think of is low intensity fouls out around the halfway line, which kill attacks and dont result in cards, as opposed to dangerous automatic yellow card tackles 40 yards from goal?


I would also have to say that I was pleased to see Deegan punishing messing at free kick time on a number of occasions by moving the ball up 13 metres, even though most of the calls were against Donegal. I don't like this stuff and if anything I would move the ball up 30 metres. I would also punish yellow card offences by a 14 yard free. The only way to put a stop to all this stuff is to get tough.

Yes Id agree with you there, and he was trying to move it on as quick as he could also. However if you moved it forward 30 yards you would have fellas playing for it to happen, running into opponents, which in turn, also falls under this ever expanding banner of cynical play. Similarly with the yellow card idea, a guy can duck into an honest tackle and make it look worse than it is, which is probably an even more cynical thing to do. Personally, I think this 'cynical play' bit is getting overly used. I thought donegal were cute in their use of non-dangerous fouls to stop mayo having an advantage in the middle, just as the dubs were cute to stop laois going for goals late in the game. These things arent as bad as the stuff tyrone did back in their pomp and shouldnt be mentioned in the same breath in my opinion. I think brolly is intentionally trying to muddy the waters in this regard.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 25/09/2012 20:29:30    1272810

Can I say my heart goes out to Mayo too, but the better team won. Congrats Donegal!!

mod (Mayo) - Posts: 859 - 25/09/2012 21:01:54    1272848

I don't know where this idea that a cynical foul won't result in a card has come from but it's entirely wrong. Cynical fouls often result in a card being shown, be that yellow or red. Mayo got away with it in the semi and being able to foul without facing the consequences was a key reason why they beat Dublin. Within ten minutes of the start of the final it was obvious that Deegan wasn't going to be so lenient and Mayo were unable to replicate their tactic of fouling at every available opportunity. I would agree that they can't be compared to Tyrone in their pomp, Mayo have reached a whole new level in terms of cynicism and gamesmanship

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 25/09/2012 21:24:36    1272865

pplocal
County: Tyrone
Posts: 5395

1272865 I don't know where this idea that a cynical foul won't result in a card has come from but it's entirely wrong. Cynical fouls often result in a card being shown, be that yellow or red. Mayo got away with it in the semi and being able to foul without facing the consequences was a key reason why they beat Dublin. Within ten minutes of the start of the final it was obvious that Deegan wasn't going to be so lenient and Mayo were unable to replicate their tactic of fouling at every available opportunity. I would agree that they can't be compared to Tyrone in their pomp, Mayo have reached a whole new level in terms of cynicism and gamesmanship

It's a sad reflection that a very fine fotoballing county such as Mayo have sunk so low... I guess it's born out of pure desperation.

I just hope that they relaise that every ref in the country is now wise to them.

I dont think Horans comments about refs and questioning their methods, before a major game will have such an impact again.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 26/09/2012 09:50:04    1272934

I don't know where this idea that a cynical foul won't result in a card has come from but it's entirely wrong. Cynical fouls often result in a card being shown, be that yellow or red. Mayo got away with it in the semi and being able to foul without facing the consequences was a key reason why they beat Dublin. Within ten minutes of the start of the final it was obvious that Deegan wasn't going to be so lenient and Mayo were unable to replicate their tactic of fouling at every available opportunity. I would agree that they can't be compared to Tyrone in their pomp, Mayo have reached a whole new level in terms of cynicism and gamesmanship

Well said.

The Master

Thank you for your reply, the man above is not from Dublin nor is Joe Brolly. Dublin have never come close to the level of fouling or time wasting that Horan and his troops utilised. From watching you play it is obvious that Horan identified Dublin's half back line as the launch pad for attacks and his solution was simple foul them at every given opportunity slow them up so they don't get a run at us.

Mayo did not just foul in the final third but in every section of the park, when Kev Mac came on and started running down the flanks it was like watching a horde of All Blacks diving at his heels, jumping on his back it was beyond cynical. Last Sunday your tactic was the same however when the Mayo players attempted to slow the game up by fouling Donegal players the ref was correct and issued 2 yellows straight away this in turn set a template for the rest of the game and Mayo were unable to continue fouling.

Dublin did not play like that against Laois fact. Dublin did not have 7 players faking cramp after 40 mins of inter county football to disrupt the flow of the game. Come on man that Mayo physio spent more time running around the pitch then the Mayo players did as they all were rolling around the ground. Never have I seen a team resort to time wasting after a mere 40 mins it was scandalous and reduced a game that could have been a game on a par with the clash of 2006 to a joke.If that is way you want to play fair enough but you fans must take the flak if you attempt to deny it.

The time wasting in that semi is the worst I have ever seen I've played the game for years in several counties, it was not wasting afew moments at the end of a game it was a systematic gameplan to roll around the ground at every given chance from the 40min on, if Mayo are so vastly superior to Dublin why did they have to resort to such antics?

Bluewave (Dublin) - Posts: 552 - 26/09/2012 10:34:15    1272972

I wonder if there is an argument for not stopping the play everytime someone goes down injured. They seem to be able to do it in rugby which is just as physical as football or would the greater speed of football make it dangerous.
It would certainly stop the feigning that spoils things at the moment.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 26/09/2012 11:43:48    1273043

To be honest as a Galway man im sick looking at Mayos "10 minute finals". Mayo beat Dublin simply because it was not a final they met them in. Every final they play, they just bottle it, same old story. 6 finals in 24 years and nothing to show. Galway were in 3 in that time and won2 bringing the 3rd to a replay.

yerallapes (Galway) - Posts: 98 - 26/09/2012 12:26:33    1273075

Think some of the Dublin posters on here need to get over Mayo beating Dublin. The reason Mayo beat Dublin was because we were the better team and scored more on the day. You should look at some incidents Dublin players have been involved in down the years like Ciaran Whelan taking Ronan Mcgarrity out of the game in 06 before you start on about Mayo tactics.

ballaghmen (Mayo) - Posts: 318 - 26/09/2012 12:56:16    1273105

Think we were 100% correct to highlight something that was largely ignored

At least Brolly knows his football...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 26/09/2012 13:01:06    1273113

essmac
County: Tyrone
Posts: 39

1271267
You had to feel sorry for Mayo for the one that got away against Meath in the 90s and for the terrible hammerings handed out by Kerry in 04 and 06, but I don't feel one bit sorry for them today. The ref leaned to them, they didn't collapse; they just weren't good enough:

First few mins: player from each team yellow-carded - for a Mayo foul(!)
16 mins: Mayo 2nd score from free awarded for a dive
18 mins: Donegal jersey tested, no free given
20 mins: Mayo free for a legitimate dispossession by Donegal
21 mins: free for Donegal not given. Donegal player passes ball under pressure from foul, and:
22 mins: resultant free to Mayo for "over-carrying"
27 mins: another Mayo pointed free awarded for a dive
31 mins: another Mayo close-in scoring free awarded for nothing - even the RTÉ commentator said "soft" and "50:50 ball"
34 mins - even worse than usual off-the-ball tackle by Mayo
37 mins: Mayo another soft free & score, described by RTÉ as a "lucky" free
49 mins: Mayo player does high tackle, no free awarded
49 mins: Donegal player does high tackle, free awarded
50 mins: soft free to Mayo
70 mins: O'Shea (described as man who could win it for Mayo) trips over himself in sight of goal
71 mins: The other O'Shea commits a silly foul

Sum up: Not a dirty game, but Mayo cynical and limited throughout (e.g., continual Mayo obstruction after the player has released the ball indulged by
referee; neck-high tackles, shoulders into stomach etc), poor shot selection, poor composure and kept in it by a series of sympathetic decisions by the ref. in the second and third quarters.

Donegal far ahead of them, even more than the comfortable scoreline suggests.


Jesus lad, get a grip! I'm a neutral so can I just point out to you that you missed the biggest miss the ref had during the game? Cillian O'Connor fouled twice in front of the Donegal goal posts and a free out given from which Donegal score their second goal - the killer goal in my opinion which made it the turning point of the match. Without it it would have been a draw game at half time and then who knows what would have happened?

Overall Donegal deserved the win and have had an amazing year hardest route ever to Sam I'd say! While bad decisions were given on both sides maybe Mayo did win a few more handy frees...however don't come up with a biased play-by-play analysis if you're going to ignore the most glaringly obvious incident of the whole game that proved to be the crucial moment of the match, I mean come on fair is fair!

mrblob (Longford) - Posts: 71 - 26/09/2012 13:20:28    1273130

Mayoforever
County: Mayo
Posts: 31

1272743 Despite all the plaudits, we still failed on the big day....again. Were it Kerry or Cork, i'm not convinced we could handle those two either on final day.

I think Mayo could cope with Cork/Kerry at Croke Park, they definitely have fight and talent. I would be concerned at Cillian O Connor's behaviour though. While it may have been part of his tactics to distract the Donegal defense, he was trash talking for large portions of the game. That was something McGuinness didnt want his players doing from last season. And i dont think it really works against any disciplined team.

O Connor was visibly mouthing at the Canal end, and Durkin even shoved him out of the way at one stage with some ease.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 26/09/2012 13:36:11    1273143