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I was wrong on the Ulster finals in the 60s. It was Down v Cavan in the final every year except for 1961 (Down v Armagh), 1963 (Down v Donegal) and 1966 (Down v Donegal).
Armagh also had their first title in 1890 but ended a 47 year wait in 1950.
JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 30/11/2020 14:29:53
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Replying To TheBlackDeath: "Ah it's one of those things that's down to several factors.
Maybe emigration and rural decline, maybe losing our railways (us Donegal, and Monaghan are the only counties in Ireland without any rail - a vital infrastructure - thus hobbling investment for generations with knock-on economic affects), but depopulation hits a lot of counties hard.
Maybe the low standard in Ulster for decades. As another poster above pointed out, Cavan teams rarely trained before a final and still waltzed it most times. Doesn't set you up for a hard battle in the semis. But on the flipside of that, when you look at other provinces' big dogs, Dublin and Kerry have a much better record at converting provincial dominence into All-Ireland's (29 AI's from 58 wins, and 37 AI's from 81 respectively). Galway have 9 from 46, but Cavan still better Mayo's 3 from 46.
Maybe complacency from winning so many Ulster titles so easily. Coming into the 60's, we might not have been planning ahead, investing, and thinking long-term. Then from the 60's onwards you see other teams, particularly from the 6 counties, getting their standards up to and eventually surpassing ours. We didn't adapt to the new reality fast enough so fell behind, and it's pretty much stayed that way since 1969, with just two titles in all that time.
For lack of adaptation to new reality, I'd also point to no Cavan club winning a senior Ulster club championship as well. I know club titles don't always correlate with county success, but doing as badly on that stage as our clubs have consistently done (with a couple of exceptions) can point to a poorer club standard in a county.
But look, it's great to have Anglo-Celt number 40 and let's hope we can build from there. A victory like that and the bit of belief it brings can have a galvanising effect and help overcome some of those issues above." 'Only counties in Ireland without any rail'... I don't recall the train stopping in Tyrone or Fermanagh but I may be wrong about that?
Ed (UK) - Posts: 156 - 30/11/2020 16:33:54
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It was once said that Cavan could send their jerseys & it would beat Fermanagh.
keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 30/11/2020 18:20:04
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@Ed how's the form? Apologies for not specifying whether I was referring to the Republic of Ireland or the Island of Ireland. To clarify it for you, I was referring to the rail service in the Republic - I guess because that's the only one I've been half familiar with in my time. Never had the pleasure of being on a train in Northern Ireland myself. Have you?
Anyway, I confess the detail may have slipped by because I was reflecting deeply on several potential causes for Cavan's woes over the last few decades. I'll try to do better in the future, but if there's anything else amiss with my post that you spot, no matter how minor the detail may seem, please do let me know.
Again, thanks for setting me on the straight and narrow-gauge, though to the point you inferred in your reply, there are still plenty who would argue those two counties you mentioned are in the United Kingdom, and therefore not Ireland.
Is mise le meas,
TBD
TheBlackDeath (Cavan) - Posts: 73 - 30/11/2020 18:31:35
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Replying To TheBlackDeath: "@Ed how's the form? Apologies for not specifying whether I was referring to the Republic of Ireland or the Island of Ireland. To clarify it for you, I was referring to the rail service in the Republic - I guess because that's the only one I've been half familiar with in my time. Never had the pleasure of being on a train in Northern Ireland myself. Have you?
Anyway, I confess the detail may have slipped by because I was reflecting deeply on several potential causes for Cavan's woes over the last few decades. I'll try to do better in the future, but if there's anything else amiss with my post that you spot, no matter how minor the detail may seem, please do let me know.
Again, thanks for setting me on the straight and narrow-gauge, though to the point you inferred in your reply, there are still plenty who would argue those two counties you mentioned are in the United Kingdom, and therefore not Ireland.
Is mise le meas,
TBD" gosh tbd, you got very touchy there. The discussion was about Cavan and ulster so I believe it was entirely relevant for Ed to point out about the lack of rail service in 2 other ulster counties. Perhaps it was the smart**** way that he replied that got your gander up.
Anyway it is a disgrace that there are no trains in the other 3.
s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 01/12/2020 01:33:39
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I have just been reading about The Gallant John Joe (O'Reilly) there's a famous song about him,he captained Cavan to two AI wins,incl the one in the Polo Grounds.He died tragically at the age of 34,resulting from an injury he received playing a club match in KIldare,he was in the Army in the Curragh.I'm aware of the song for a lifetime but never knew the story till now,what's the saying...every day a school day!
Another famous name from that era I think is the Gunner Brady.Best of luck to Cavan against the Dubs.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 01/12/2020 22:15:26
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Replying To ONdeDITCH: "I have just been reading about The Gallant John Joe (O'Reilly) there's a famous song about him,he captained Cavan to two AI wins,incl the one in the Polo Grounds.He died tragically at the age of 34,resulting from an injury he received playing a club match in KIldare,he was in the Army in the Curragh.I'm aware of the song for a lifetime but never knew the story till now,what's the saying...every day a school day!
Another famous name from that era I think is the Gunner Brady.Best of luck to Cavan against the Dubs." Aye, Nerny sings it lovely!
The Ulster final win last week was actually on the anniversary of John Joe's death.
I thought his selection on the team of the millennium might be a romantic notion or token gesture from the selection committee, due to his early departure.
But I've since seen footage from our All Ireland semi finals and finals from the 40s and 50s and he stood out a mile. Big, strong, calm, a great reader of the game, and a real driving force at centre back. The stories told are not without merit.
Killian Brady, our midfielder, would be a descendant (grandson i think but someone else can confirm) of the Gunner Brady.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 02/12/2020 10:00:53
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Replying To JoeSoap: "Our first breakthrough team came in the 60s, we had been around before then but not competitive. But yes our first ever Ulster final was in 1963 against Down which we lost, we then lost against them again in 1966. I believe we were knocked out by Down or Cavan nearly every year in the 60s, and apart from ourselves I think they contested every Ulster final in that decade. So we were up against two very good sides, and in Down arguably one of the greatest ever, when our first good team came along.
Cavan dominated for years I think it was the 50s before Armagh, Tyrone, Derry and Down all got their first provincial titles but I may be wrong on that.
There is a very good article in the Irish Times yesterday from Paul Fitzpatrick of the Anglo Celt. A lovely read." I think the BBC televised the 1966 Ulster final.
MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1061 - 02/12/2020 10:20:33
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Replying To Ed: "'Only counties in Ireland without any rail'... I don't recall the train stopping in Tyrone or Fermanagh but I may be wrong about that?" You might not recall it but Enniskillen and Omagh definitely had railway stations at some point in the past.
lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 02/12/2020 10:41:46
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Replying To cavanman47: "Aye, Nerny sings it lovely!
The Ulster final win last week was actually on the anniversary of John Joe's death.
I thought his selection on the team of the millennium might be a romantic notion or token gesture from the selection committee, due to his early departure.
But I've since seen footage from our All Ireland semi finals and finals from the 40s and 50s and he stood out a mile. Big, strong, calm, a great reader of the game, and a real driving force at centre back. The stories told are not without merit.
Killian Brady, our midfielder, would be a descendant (grandson i think but someone else can confirm) of the Gunner Brady." Killian is his grand-nephew I believe
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2380 - 02/12/2020 11:56:06
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Well the whole country will be rooting for Cavan but it might not be enough.I don't believe it will be a walkover for the Dubs either.The Cavan manager has experience of managing a so called minnow team to beat the Dublin Co Champions a couple years ago so he isn't without form.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 02/12/2020 20:37:32
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