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What Can The GAA Learn From The NFL Season Structure In America?

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "The 2 Leagues format will never gain traction among the county boards. There would be very few dead rubbers in a single or double round-robin format. I'll take either one. A single round-robin would require a neutral game so each teams get one home and one away game. Fans want a knockout championship in the summer. They don't want a League to drag on and then have 4 teams in the semi-finals."
I don't know about that.

The more league style format in hurling has been a big success.

It's very similar to the NHL just played in the summer.

The league's are exciting, you get the best teams playing week in week out.

You know that one of the new suggested competition formats suggested by the fixtures review committee was pretty much moving the league to become Championship.

I think we're moving towards that and the game will be better for it.

It's also better for all teams.

Having more knockout rounds is actually bad for the developing teams. Their season ends up ending several months before the end of the season.

It doesn't give all the players a proper enjoyable season currently.

I'm going off memory here but I believe there was a study commissioned on this too a few years back when the training to games ratio was being analysed and that the knockout nature of the championship was specifically highlighted as a contributory factor.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 26/05/2020 21:13:21    2279288

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Replying To Whammo86:  "
Replying To Mystic_M:  "It's just a straight 16 game regular season and then championship.

Structure

They have 32 teams in the competition (remind you of anything) and are able to complete their regular season between September to December. One bye week.

The teams are broken down by divisions with 8 divisions, 4 in the west and 4 in the east. Making up 2 conferences east vs west. The last team standing in the two conferences will then play in the Superbowl. From an Irish perspective Kerry are western conference and Dublin would be eastern.

This instantly turns the GAA season from being a 9 month season to a 5 month season. 17 weeks for just the regular season not including the 4 weeks of playoffs for the qualified teams.

It blends the best of the national football league which has been a growing success story and also the connection to a knockout all Ireland structure which the two have missed. Winning the national league particularly at the division 1 level means nothing as it gives you no real advantage for the All Ireland series. Where this would change is the best regular season records gain home field advantage and easier fixtures and a bye round. Which means it's not only enough to qualify, it's important to qualify as high as possible.

TV Coverage

It's no secret that the TV coverage in Ireland is a shambles. Whether it's the Sky deal for games or EIR holding all the rights for classic games, it's a mess. The GAA go for the quick buck over what improves the brand over the long run. Short term mindsets have held the GAA brand hostage. Sure they make money but they can't even distribute that equally! Something the NFL in America are able to do each year with the money they generate.
The GAA needs to do yearly deals with TV stations for rights to show games. RTE, Sky, TG4 and EIR need to bid on the schedule of games that would be churned out every year in this new format. It consists of 256 games, where each team (32 total) plays 16 games during a 17-week period.

The time slots for games would be as below

Friday Night for local rivalry games.
Saturday Night double Header.
Sunday Morning 12:30pm Multi-Match Game like Gillette soccer Saturday but with Footage mirroring Sunday night redzone in the NFL
Sunday Prime Time 2:30pm Game

This would then have 4 live games every weekend and a live broadcast for the other games which would kick off at 12:30pm on a sunday and flash around to all the games with footage in a redzone style format. Imagine EIR with the Sunday morning package reviewing over 12 games and Joe Brolly, Shane Curran, Oisin Mcconville, Colm Parkinson and more in the studio going through games.All teams at some stage will be in this slot as well as others to give all the fair exposure.

Sunday Game review show will still remain on a Sunday night. To review all games no matter who the broadcaster is.

A requirement for teams to take part in docuseries will also be made mandatory by the GAA. If not adhered to then it will have a direct impact on the funding provided to by the GAA, exactly like the NFL.

A yearly review done by the all Ireland winning team like "america's game" in the NFL. A football Life style documentary on past players and coaches. And a hard knocks style pre-season mini series in the build up to the season.

County Transfers

During the off-season each county team has to declare their panel for the upcoming season. Any player not selected by the county can freely transfer and play with another but must make a 2 year commitment. A player can also not transfer if he is selected by his own county and wants to play somewhere else. This will remove the risk of highly talented players going to stronger counties. Its design is only to increase the competitiveness of weaker county's who can pluck unwanted stars from other areas. No player has to agree to sign with another county if not selected. They can stay in their own area and try and secure a panel spot which is open all year. But the panel must be limited to a certain number or players so if one comes in another goes out.

The deadline for a potential cross county transfer is week 8 of the regular season. After that no changes can occur until the following pre season.

Fixture Breakdown example
GAA Structure -NFL Style
32 Teams 2 Conferences 8 Divisions - These do NOT change Only the schedules change.
17 Weeks in a season with 1 bye week
16 Game Regular Season

How its decided which division goes against another each year?
Each Division plays another division in another conference once every four years. (4 Games)
You will also play one division in your own conference once every 4 years (4 Games)
For the remaining two games you play 2 teams. One in each of the remaining conference divisions not already selected. Who those teams are, is based on the previous season results and you play the team with the same ranking as you. E.g If you win the division you play the previous winners of the two other remaining divisions.

Example Mayo (West Division)
Note: Mayo have been matched against the North East division for 2021.
Note: Mayo Have been matched against the North West Division for 2021
Note: Based on old standings Mayo's remaining two games in the west will consist of Cork and Cavan. (Expected table 2nd in their division behind Galway. Similar for Cork and Cavan to be second in there division the previous year)

Divisional Game
Mayo Vs Galway (Home)
Galway Vs Mayo (Away)
Roscommon Vs Mayo (Away)
Sligo Vs Mayo (Away)
Mayo Vs Roscommon (Home)
Mayo Vs Sligo (Home)

Rival Eastern Divisional Games
Mayo Vs Armagh (Home)
Mayo Vs Antrim (Home)
Derry Vs Mayo (Awa)
Down Vs Mayo (Away)

Rival Western Divisional
Donegal Vs Mayo (Home)
Tyrone Vs Mayo (Away)
Fermanagh Vs Mayo (Away)
Mayo Vs Leitrim (Home)

Remaining 2 Western Divisional Games with same record opposition
Mayo Vs Cavan
Cork Vs Mayo

Please not the schedule of these 17 weeks is from February 5th -Friday 4th of June

Playoffs for 4 more weeks for qualified teams. (12 teams can qualify)

Wild Card round 12th-13th
Western Conference Semifinals 18th -19th
Conference Finals 26th -27th
All Ireland Final East Vs West -4th of July


Please change any parts that you feel would make this better. Dates etc.
Or explain how this would also not work for an Irish perspective. The structure of divisions was based off geographical locations and not based on team quality as this changes over time."
I think with 16 games each you'd get a lot of teams out very early and with little to play for.

I do like the idea of a tighter schedule though.


If we could get rid of provincial championships I've felt for a while that a great season would be 2 National League campaigns back to back.

Spring league April and May 7 rounds, Summer league June and July 7 rounds.

After spring league promotion and relegation 2 up 2 down.

The top 2 teams in division 1 at the end of the Spring league and top 2 teams at the end of Summer League qualify for the playoffs.

If a team qualifies once they go straight to the final. If teams qualify once they play in a semifinal against another team that has qualified once.

It does mean that not every team can win the All Ireland each year. (Only division 1 and division 2 teams at the start of spring league will have a chance).

It does, however, give lots of meaningful games for teams and a proper chance and building, growing and moving up the levels.

Take Antrim, we'd have started in division 4 this season but if we got promoted we'd have a go straight away in the higher tier.

You have a team get relegated and they get an opportunity to put it right straight away.

Teams are tiered but it's quite a flat structure with teams getting a chance at a double promotion each year.

In hurling you'd be talking divisions of 6 with 1 up 1 down plus playoffs between 5th place in the higher division against 2nd place in the lower division.

Every team will play the season that their ability dictates.

The top teams will get 2 division 1 campaigns, there'll be 4 teams get a division 1 and a division 2 campaign, 4 teams get 2 division 2 campaigns and so on.

A team starting in division 4 won't be able to win this year's all All Ireland but they'd be able to win the following season's All Ireland."
I like it - a bit like South American soccer leagues - 2 separate round robins with a Champ/promotion every six months (and possibly one overall annual Champ like you have it).

Overall, I'd like a 5-month season (21 weeks) - so your 2 round robins creates a 14-match regular season, with enough time for bye weeks and KO.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 26/05/2020 22:00:08    2279292

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Replying To Whammo86:  "2 groups of 8 with a single round robin is better than groups of 4 playing a double round robin.

Otherwise something along these lines would be a much better competition than what we've got."
Split the difference - groups of 6 ?

Your two-stage round robins with -
Div 1 (2 groups of 6)
Div 2 (2 groups of 6)
Div 3 (2 groups of 5)

For fixture variety, Div 1 Spring League round robin (traditional intra group, 5 games);
Summer League (inter group, 6 games).

To keep more teams alive - Spring League top 2 advance from each group and Summer League top 4 of all 12 advance to AI KO QFs (repeat teams get byes).

After each Summer, each 3rd & 4th team switch groups (A to B and B to A) within each division.

Still 2 up/2 down from each smaller group after each Spring and Summer (that is, 4 up/4 down between divisions).

More ebb and flo.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 26/05/2020 22:42:16    2279293

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I don't know about that.

The more league style format in hurling has been a big success.

It's very similar to the NHL just played in the summer.

The league's are exciting, you get the best teams playing week in week out.

You know that one of the new suggested competition formats suggested by the fixtures review committee was pretty much moving the league to become Championship.

I think we're moving towards that and the game will be better for it.

It's also better for all teams.

Having more knockout rounds is actually bad for the developing teams. Their season ends up ending several months before the end of the season.

It doesn't give all the players a proper enjoyable season currently.

I'm going off memory here but I believe there was a study commissioned on this too a few years back when the training to games ratio was being analysed and that the knockout nature of the championship was specifically highlighted as a contributory factor."
The format proposing to move the League to become Championship wasn't popular. It gave weaker teams a preference over teams competing at a higher level. Great for Antrim. Not good for Donegal. I hope our county board votes to put in a bin where it belongs. A group stage gives every team at least 3 games and it's a championship at the end of the day. It's not meant to be used for developing teams. The knockout stage was great until it was diluted by the Super 8s. The League should be kept as it is and moved up into the spring. The provincials can be held at the start of the season.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 26/05/2020 22:47:09    2279294

Link

Replying To Mystic_M:  "It's just a straight 16 game regular season and then championship.

Structure

They have 32 teams in the competition (remind you of anything) and are able to complete their regular season between September to December. One bye week.

The teams are broken down by divisions with 8 divisions, 4 in the west and 4 in the east. Making up 2 conferences east vs west. The last team standing in the two conferences will then play in the Superbowl. From an Irish perspective Kerry are western conference and Dublin would be eastern.

This instantly turns the GAA season from being a 9 month season to a 5 month season. 17 weeks for just the regular season not including the 4 weeks of playoffs for the qualified teams.

It blends the best of the national football league which has been a growing success story and also the connection to a knockout all Ireland structure which the two have missed. Winning the national league particularly at the division 1 level means nothing as it gives you no real advantage for the All Ireland series. Where this would change is the best regular season records gain home field advantage and easier fixtures and a bye round. Which means it's not only enough to qualify, it's important to qualify as high as possible.

TV Coverage

It's no secret that the TV coverage in Ireland is a shambles. Whether it's the Sky deal for games or EIR holding all the rights for classic games, it's a mess. The GAA go for the quick buck over what improves the brand over the long run. Short term mindsets have held the GAA brand hostage. Sure they make money but they can't even distribute that equally! Something the NFL in America are able to do each year with the money they generate.
The GAA needs to do yearly deals with TV stations for rights to show games. RTE, Sky, TG4 and EIR need to bid on the schedule of games that would be churned out every year in this new format. It consists of 256 games, where each team (32 total) plays 16 games during a 17-week period.

The time slots for games would be as below

Friday Night for local rivalry games.
Saturday Night double Header.
Sunday Morning 12:30pm Multi-Match Game like Gillette soccer Saturday but with Footage mirroring Sunday night redzone in the NFL
Sunday Prime Time 2:30pm Game

This would then have 4 live games every weekend and a live broadcast for the other games which would kick off at 12:30pm on a sunday and flash around to all the games with footage in a redzone style format. Imagine EIR with the Sunday morning package reviewing over 12 games and Joe Brolly, Shane Curran, Oisin Mcconville, Colm Parkinson and more in the studio going through games.All teams at some stage will be in this slot as well as others to give all the fair exposure.

Sunday Game review show will still remain on a Sunday night. To review all games no matter who the broadcaster is.

A requirement for teams to take part in docuseries will also be made mandatory by the GAA. If not adhered to then it will have a direct impact on the funding provided to by the GAA, exactly like the NFL.

A yearly review done by the all Ireland winning team like "america's game" in the NFL. A football Life style documentary on past players and coaches. And a hard knocks style pre-season mini series in the build up to the season.

County Transfers

During the off-season each county team has to declare their panel for the upcoming season. Any player not selected by the county can freely transfer and play with another but must make a 2 year commitment. A player can also not transfer if he is selected by his own county and wants to play somewhere else. This will remove the risk of highly talented players going to stronger counties. Its design is only to increase the competitiveness of weaker county's who can pluck unwanted stars from other areas. No player has to agree to sign with another county if not selected. They can stay in their own area and try and secure a panel spot which is open all year. But the panel must be limited to a certain number or players so if one comes in another goes out.

The deadline for a potential cross county transfer is week 8 of the regular season. After that no changes can occur until the following pre season.

Fixture Breakdown example
GAA Structure -NFL Style
32 Teams 2 Conferences 8 Divisions - These do NOT change Only the schedules change.
17 Weeks in a season with 1 bye week
16 Game Regular Season

How its decided which division goes against another each year?
Each Division plays another division in another conference once every four years. (4 Games)
You will also play one division in your own conference once every 4 years (4 Games)
For the remaining two games you play 2 teams. One in each of the remaining conference divisions not already selected. Who those teams are, is based on the previous season results and you play the team with the same ranking as you. E.g If you win the division you play the previous winners of the two other remaining divisions.

Example Mayo (West Division)
Note: Mayo have been matched against the North East division for 2021.
Note: Mayo Have been matched against the North West Division for 2021
Note: Based on old standings Mayo's remaining two games in the west will consist of Cork and Cavan. (Expected table 2nd in their division behind Galway. Similar for Cork and Cavan to be second in there division the previous year)

Divisional Game
Mayo Vs Galway (Home)
Galway Vs Mayo (Away)
Roscommon Vs Mayo (Away)
Sligo Vs Mayo (Away)
Mayo Vs Roscommon (Home)
Mayo Vs Sligo (Home)

Rival Eastern Divisional Games
Mayo Vs Armagh (Home)
Mayo Vs Antrim (Home)
Derry Vs Mayo (Awa)
Down Vs Mayo (Away)

Rival Western Divisional
Donegal Vs Mayo (Home)
Tyrone Vs Mayo (Away)
Fermanagh Vs Mayo (Away)
Mayo Vs Leitrim (Home)

Remaining 2 Western Divisional Games with same record opposition
Mayo Vs Cavan
Cork Vs Mayo

Please not the schedule of these 17 weeks is from February 5th -Friday 4th of June

Playoffs for 4 more weeks for qualified teams. (12 teams can qualify)

Wild Card round 12th-13th
Western Conference Semifinals 18th -19th
Conference Finals 26th -27th
All Ireland Final East Vs West -4th of July


Please change any parts that you feel would make this better. Dates etc.
Or explain how this would also not work for an Irish perspective. The structure of divisions was based off geographical locations and not based on team quality as this changes over time."
The teams are broken down by divisions with 8 divisions, 4 in the west and 4 in the east. Making up 2 conferences east vs west. The last team standing in the two conferences will then play in the Superbowl.

This is nonsense. You no nothing about the NFL.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2446 - 26/05/2020 23:03:43    2279297

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Replying To Htaem:  "Granted floating provinces would be a hard sell, but the issue of what to do with the provincials is a difficult one. The Provincial Councils still hold quite a bit of power and will not roll over easy to any suggestions which marginalize their competitions.

However once the provincials are competitive then there's not much complaint but in the last decade (2010-2019) Dublin and Kerry have won all but one of their repective provincial crowns.

Connacht and Ulster however have remained competitive and winning those still appears to mean a lot to the winner team.

How to make them more competitive though, that's another question. Teams dominating a particular province is not exactly a new phenomenon, but people seem less accepting of it these days."
Limit the KO Provs to the Best 16 teams only ?
Uls top 4 (based on NFL ranking, incl prior Champ)
Conn top 4
Muns with Kerry/Cork + 2 guests
Lein with Dub + 3 guests.

16 Teams ranked 17-32 play in 'National Prelim Rd'
(8 winners to National QFs).

Championship Rd 1 = Prov SF 16 & National QFs (24 teams).

Championship Rd 2 = Prov Finals & National SFs (12 teams).

Championship Rd 3 = Prov Champs Playoff Rd & National Final (6 teams).

3 Championship Rd 3 winners to AI KO QFs.

8 Nat Prelim Rd losers to Back Door Rd 1 (BD1).
4 BD1 winners & 12 Championship Rd 1 losers to BD2 (16 teams).
8 BD2 winners & 6 Championship Rd 2 losers to BD3 (14 teams).
7 BD3 winners & 3 Championship Rd 3 losers to BD4 (10 teams).

5 BD4 winners to AI KO QFs.

QFs, SFs (neutral Prov venues), Final.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 27/05/2020 02:44:03    2279303

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OK, back to the discussion thread here -
Some of you may already know my version of
'2 Conferences of 16'.

- Draw half of each NFL div to form Conference A.
- Other half of each NFL div forms Conf B.
- Each team plays 12 of 16 Inter-Conf teams (AvB).
- Pairings avoided are div 1v4, 2v2 and 3v3.
- After 12 matches, top 12 of 32 advance to AI KO.
- Each Conf KO limit of top 6 (extras to other Conf)
- Conf A QFs - 3rd hosts 6th & 4th hosts 5th.
- Conf A SFs - 1st hosts lower QF winning seed; and 2nd hosts higher QF winning seed.
- Conf B KO pairings follow the same structure.
- Most KO Conf matches will be non-repeat.
- Teams 13th-20th of 32 to Tier 2 KO Conf SFs.
- Confs redrawn/refreshed for the following year, with Tiers 1 & 2 Conf Finalists and teams placed 11th to 14th remaining in the same Conf, and the other 16 teams crossover/change Confs.
- Inter-Conf schedule for the following year avoids 'top 4 in one Conf v bottom 4 in the other Conf';
2nd 4 v 2nd 4; and 3rd 4 v 3rd 4.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 27/05/2020 03:57:17    2279304

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "The format proposing to move the League to become Championship wasn't popular. It gave weaker teams a preference over teams competing at a higher level. Great for Antrim. Not good for Donegal. I hope our county board votes to put in a bin where it belongs. A group stage gives every team at least 3 games and it's a championship at the end of the day. It's not meant to be used for developing teams. The knockout stage was great until it was diluted by the Super 8s. The League should be kept as it is and moved up into the spring. The provincials can be held at the start of the season."
I like that idea.

The fixtures review committee I didn't like either. Specifically the idea that lower league teams can make the playoffs.

Completely agree that say Antrim winning division 4 shouldn't get them through to the All Ireland series.

I was just pointing out that the league becoming the championship is not out of the realms of possibility.

I'd favour it personally but can understand why others don't.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 27/05/2020 11:21:38    2279312

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