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Replying To Whammo86: "Without wishing to sound glib, does anyone think that investing in coaching for any 30-something is the best way of spending finances? Will our GPOs be expected to arrange a Go Games programme for over-35s? Are we to develop Tag Camán and Tag Peil programmes? Do we really need to even include 23-year-olds when we are allocating scarce funding resources?" he asked.
I agree with him on this.
I've been someone that has defended the GAA over the funding to Dublin. It was a huge success and I was always worried about defunding something that was actually strongly achieving what it was intended for.
That being said it's not so long ago that Dublin were enjoying an unprecedented period of success and whatever about a recent drop off the future is likely still very bright for them. The association does have to bear competitive balance, making sure that potential future contenders don't fall behind to such a critical extent.
So all in all maybe now is the right time to tweak things. You would hope that not too many jobs are lost as they can plug some of the deficit." Ive 0% concern for the Dublin Senior teams, they've washed their own faces and always have, this is the difficulty with this debate, games development funding isn't about funding your senior team - its about attracting younger players to the game and keeping them in the GAA. So the debate as far as im concerned isnt about the Senior game. Its about having a pathway for young players and young adults to part of the GAA and supporting that pathway
There is almost a third of the population of the country in Dublin and 16% -20% of that are under 17% - incredible numbers that cant be matched in few places elsewhere and growing. Th model itself doesn't take account of growing or changeling demographics, its weighted heavily on those already playing - which is ridiculous variable to base funding on. What it means is populations that shifted drastically in the last ten years are going to be handicap. I dont even think its Dublin that will bear the brunt of this really. Ultimately our funding is cut in 450k, but if you looked at one county who could close that gap through commercial revenue or increased sponsorship given our market its Dublin, be a pain for a couple of years but grand.
But i look at Kildare, Wicklow, Meath, even Weatmeath and Laois - counties that have seen huge population increases in the last decade and continue a pace, those youngsters as well as those in Dublin and their funding is going to be based on those playing now, not the potential huge demographic that could be in 15 - 20 years as people settle in these areas and raise families. Those counties wont have the funding to attract players to Gaelic games. The funding is going to change completely, the east Leinster project will end, while i see no clarification on the provincial funding model. As far a si can see all funding is going to come from central funds, so while the figures may look bigger for some in reality they may not be. Again for me this has nothing to do with senior football.
The model will also change the dynamic in some counties, Monahan and Leitrim are likely to loose out, they were subsidised based on very low populations. Cork are going to receive twice the funding of Kerry, Galway will receive twice the funding of Mayo, there are many example of this i don think people have identified. It looks to me that no accounting for the split in demographic, in Northern counties culturally and the religious divide - should we not try and attract and those of a unionist background to Gaelic games...
The model to my mind is just stupid, it makes 0 sense to base funding on registered players - its creates an obstacle to a pathway in changing dynamics in counties, changes the dynamic in many provinces, deceptively i think doesn't change funding one way or the other in the way it was meant. But most of all i think it fails to do what its supposed to do in the main which is attract youngsters and young adults to Gaelic games. I couldn't think of stupider way of doing this.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 08/12/2022 11:17:04
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Replying To DUBJOHN: "I'm a member of one such club in Dublin." Oh I'd say you are ... conveniently. The GAA folk in Dublin would want to open their eyes to what actually goes on at club & county level outside the M50. John Costello banging on annually about the state of the GAA in the capital is certainly not aiding anyones cause. There's not too many counties who can afford a full time CEO and full time support staff. God knows maybe Dublin might have to raffle an auld house or something of the sort in the future... you never know.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 844 - 08/12/2022 11:44:08
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Replying To TheUsername: "Ive 0% concern for the Dublin Senior teams, they've washed their own faces and always have, this is the difficulty with this debate, games development funding isn't about funding your senior team - its about attracting younger players to the game and keeping them in the GAA. So the debate as far as im concerned isnt about the Senior game. Its about having a pathway for young players and young adults to part of the GAA and supporting that pathway
There is almost a third of the population of the country in Dublin and 16% -20% of that are under 17% - incredible numbers that cant be matched in few places elsewhere and growing. Th model itself doesn't take account of growing or changeling demographics, its weighted heavily on those already playing - which is ridiculous variable to base funding on. What it means is populations that shifted drastically in the last ten years are going to be handicap. I dont even think its Dublin that will bear the brunt of this really. Ultimately our funding is cut in 450k, but if you looked at one county who could close that gap through commercial revenue or increased sponsorship given our market its Dublin, be a pain for a couple of years but grand.
But i look at Kildare, Wicklow, Meath, even Weatmeath and Laois - counties that have seen huge population increases in the last decade and continue a pace, those youngsters as well as those in Dublin and their funding is going to be based on those playing now, not the potential huge demographic that could be in 15 - 20 years as people settle in these areas and raise families. Those counties wont have the funding to attract players to Gaelic games. The funding is going to change completely, the east Leinster project will end, while i see no clarification on the provincial funding model. As far a si can see all funding is going to come from central funds, so while the figures may look bigger for some in reality they may not be. Again for me this has nothing to do with senior football.
The model will also change the dynamic in some counties, Monahan and Leitrim are likely to loose out, they were subsidised based on very low populations. Cork are going to receive twice the funding of Kerry, Galway will receive twice the funding of Mayo, there are many example of this i don think people have identified. It looks to me that no accounting for the split in demographic, in Northern counties culturally and the religious divide - should we not try and attract and those of a unionist background to Gaelic games...
The model to my mind is just stupid, it makes 0 sense to base funding on registered players - its creates an obstacle to a pathway in changing dynamics in counties, changes the dynamic in many provinces, deceptively i think doesn't change funding one way or the other in the way it was meant. But most of all i think it fails to do what its supposed to do in the main which is attract youngsters and young adults to Gaelic games. I couldn't think of stupider way of doing this." You are forgetting the social improvement element of the GAA especially in urban areas. It can provide a focus and hope for young people from areas in which both are in short supply.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11732 - 08/12/2022 12:31:24
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Replying To TheUsername: "Ive 0% concern for the Dublin Senior teams, they've washed their own faces and always have, this is the difficulty with this debate, games development funding isn't about funding your senior team - its about attracting younger players to the game and keeping them in the GAA. So the debate as far as im concerned isnt about the Senior game. Its about having a pathway for young players and young adults to part of the GAA and supporting that pathway
There is almost a third of the population of the country in Dublin and 16% -20% of that are under 17% - incredible numbers that cant be matched in few places elsewhere and growing. Th model itself doesn't take account of growing or changeling demographics, its weighted heavily on those already playing - which is ridiculous variable to base funding on. What it means is populations that shifted drastically in the last ten years are going to be handicap. I dont even think its Dublin that will bear the brunt of this really. Ultimately our funding is cut in 450k, but if you looked at one county who could close that gap through commercial revenue or increased sponsorship given our market its Dublin, be a pain for a couple of years but grand.
But i look at Kildare, Wicklow, Meath, even Weatmeath and Laois - counties that have seen huge population increases in the last decade and continue a pace, those youngsters as well as those in Dublin and their funding is going to be based on those playing now, not the potential huge demographic that could be in 15 - 20 years as people settle in these areas and raise families. Those counties wont have the funding to attract players to Gaelic games. The funding is going to change completely, the east Leinster project will end, while i see no clarification on the provincial funding model. As far a si can see all funding is going to come from central funds, so while the figures may look bigger for some in reality they may not be. Again for me this has nothing to do with senior football.
The model will also change the dynamic in some counties, Monahan and Leitrim are likely to loose out, they were subsidised based on very low populations. Cork are going to receive twice the funding of Kerry, Galway will receive twice the funding of Mayo, there are many example of this i don think people have identified. It looks to me that no accounting for the split in demographic, in Northern counties culturally and the religious divide - should we not try and attract and those of a unionist background to Gaelic games...
The model to my mind is just stupid, it makes 0 sense to base funding on registered players - its creates an obstacle to a pathway in changing dynamics in counties, changes the dynamic in many provinces, deceptively i think doesn't change funding one way or the other in the way it was meant. But most of all i think it fails to do what its supposed to do in the main which is attract youngsters and young adults to Gaelic games. I couldn't think of stupider way of doing this." Fair play Username, most intelligent post on here in a long time.
DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 932 - 08/12/2022 13:54:15
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Replying To Square_B: "Oh I'd say you are ... conveniently. The GAA folk in Dublin would want to open their eyes to what actually goes on at club & county level outside the M50. John Costello banging on annually about the state of the GAA in the capital is certainly not aiding anyones cause. There's not too many counties who can afford a full time CEO and full time support staff. God knows maybe Dublin might have to raffle an auld house or something of the sort in the future... you never know." You're so far away from knowing the plight of most clubs in Dublin that I'm not going to debate on this with you, most folk like you outside of the M50 need to open your eyes to what really goes on with most clubs in Dublin ! (P S. can I borrow your little violin ?)
DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 932 - 08/12/2022 13:59:41
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Replying To Viking66: "You are forgetting the social improvement element of the GAA especially in urban areas. It can provide a focus and hope for young people from areas in which both are in short supply." Excellent point, you look at what has come out of Ballymun Kickhams, Philly McMahon, both Smalls, Dean Rock, Evan Comerford and James McCarthy in this generation.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 08/12/2022 14:35:05
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Replying To Square_B: "Oh I'd say you are ... conveniently. The GAA folk in Dublin would want to open their eyes to what actually goes on at club & county level outside the M50. John Costello banging on annually about the state of the GAA in the capital is certainly not aiding anyones cause. There's not too many counties who can afford a full time CEO and full time support staff. God knows maybe Dublin might have to raffle an auld house or something of the sort in the future... you never know." I can completely understand why people are annoyed by Costello remarks, but you are way off the mark regarding most Dublin clubs.
We are in no better position than clubs anywhere else and same "divide" exists in most counties between the local "super club" - and nearly every county has one, usually in the county town - and the rest. You may be assured there is just as much resentment among many Dub Gaels of the former as there is of Dublin overall elsewhere.
As for the county teams in terms of resources - football seniors basically - they are a million miles removed from the realities of the clubs, even the clubs most of them play with. People joke about it, but of course they are regarded with fierce pride when they pull on the county jersey. Same as any other place.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2523 - 08/12/2022 15:01:46
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Replying To DUBJOHN: "You're so far away from knowing the plight of most clubs in Dublin that I'm not going to debate on this with you, most folk like you outside of the M50 need to open your eyes to what really goes on with most clubs in Dublin ! (P S. can I borrow your little violin ?)" You wouldn't be able to debate what goes on outside the M50 because you don't have a clue. I know full well what goes on in GAA circles in Dublin, particularly in North Dublin and all I see is an abundance of wealth & resources that most clubs could only dream of.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 844 - 08/12/2022 15:58:25
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Replying To Square_B: "Isn't it great that clubs are able to fundraise enough to funds GPO's for every club in the county... meanwhile here in Leitrim we fundraise to keep the dressing room lights on. I think I'll have to take out my small violin for John Costello's annual moan..." I forgot that Dublin club's got free electricity. I can only apologise.
It's great that buying, building and maintaining facilities in Dublin is so cheap as well.
It's great for Dublin clubs that all our costs are so much cheaper that we only have to fundraise for GPOs.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 08/12/2022 19:03:14
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Lads when will we all realise that's it's not a competition fit for purpose and a lot of the angst being vented on this thread is more of the usual rural socioeconomic woes being aired, it funnys though that such woes rarely get looked at beyond their own noses but it is what it is... Try having a family in Dublin at the moment but yeah.. poor you
Costello's comments and the highly predictable but understandable comments ( the aul M50 isn't long to be spouted but try living inside it for a bit) are just a reaction to what is a laughably unbalanced competitive sport and Dublin being the easy target bears most of the finger pointing but really just look around yiz, it's laughably unbalanced all over the shop, one field over in fact.
You don't have far to throw a stone.
Some counties having to play more games, some counties having to travel further, some having not as many players, clubs, population, some waltzing out of hurling provinces, some counties lording it financially over others.
It's not a fair setup and it's really not a championship at all.. it's a dodgy FA Cup
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 09/12/2022 09:05:05
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Replying To MesAmis: "I forgot that Dublin club's got free electricity. I can only apologise.
It's great that buying, building and maintaining facilities in Dublin is so cheap as well.
It's great for Dublin clubs that all our costs are so much cheaper that we only have to fundraise for GPOs." The huge challenge for Gaelic Games in Dublin that people outside dont understand is land. There is none and any available land, costs millions, its a significant cost and challenge that just isn't relevant or acknowledged outside of Dublin. Clubs dont have grounds, new clubs cant be developed.
The cost of buying a site for a cluster of pitches for clubs to train on is considerably more then most counties spend on buying the land, developing and building all their Centres of excellence for their county teams.
I'm not to worried about the funding gap for games development - we will bridge that with a bit on innovation.
The biggest challenge facing game in Dublin, is land, lack of it and the cost of it.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 09/12/2022 11:25:39
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Do like the other 31 Counties... fundraise.
There are 1.4m people in Dublin get 50 cent off each of them...." Out of curiosity, of that 1.4 million do you know anyone from Roscommon and do any of them play GAA back home? I do wonder why people cant get it into their thick skulls that a lot of people who live in Dublin are not Dubs! A lof of idiots say the same as you each year!
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 09/12/2022 11:39:36
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Replying To BarneyGrant: "I can completely understand why people are annoyed by Costello remarks, but you are way off the mark regarding most Dublin clubs.
We are in no better position than clubs anywhere else and same "divide" exists in most counties between the local "super club" - and nearly every county has one, usually in the county town - and the rest. You may be assured there is just as much resentment among many Dub Gaels of the former as there is of Dublin overall elsewhere.
As for the county teams in terms of resources - football seniors basically - they are a million miles removed from the realities of the clubs, even the clubs most of them play with. People joke about it, but of course they are regarded with fierce pride when they pull on the county jersey. Same as any other place." I played for a short while in Dublin and I was amazed how many times we had to tog out and play our games in a park or a place with no dressing rooms and it was at a decent level too.
In North Tipp I believe every club has a decent stand in addition to dressing rooms for a number of years now. Costello is trying to look after his own like every other board member in every other county.
I could see raising money being a problem for a lot of the smaller Dublin clubs in particular.
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 09/12/2022 11:44:28
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Replying To MesAmis: "I forgot that Dublin club's got free electricity. I can only apologise.
It's great that buying, building and maintaining facilities in Dublin is so cheap as well.
It's great for Dublin clubs that all our costs are so much cheaper that we only have to fundraise for GPOs." Not sure what builders you do be dealing with but facilities & pitches aren't cheap to build or run here either... and we have less members to pay for it. I bet you're not out helping sell 50eur tickets either in the throes of winter... maybe you're sitting instead in the nice bar at the clubhouse having a pint... you haven't a clue.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 844 - 09/12/2022 11:54:11
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Replying To tiobraid: "Out of curiosity, of that 1.4 million do you know anyone from Roscommon and do any of them play GAA back home? I do wonder why people cant get it into their thick skulls that a lot of people who live in Dublin are not Dubs! A lof of idiots say the same as you each year!" Some people who live in Ros aren't from Roscommon but they'd still give a small contribution if asked.
No need to be calling people thick or idiots.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1402 - 09/12/2022 12:04:01
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Replying To TheUsername: "The huge challenge for Gaelic Games in Dublin that people outside dont understand is land. There is none and any available land, costs millions, its a significant cost and challenge that just isn't relevant or acknowledged outside of Dublin. Clubs dont have grounds, new clubs cant be developed.
The cost of buying a site for a cluster of pitches for clubs to train on is considerably more then most counties spend on buying the land, developing and building all their Centres of excellence for their county teams.
I'm not to worried about the funding gap for games development - we will bridge that with a bit on innovation.
The biggest challenge facing game in Dublin, is land, lack of it and the cost of it." I agree fully with your post that land or the lack of it is a serious issue in Dublin for current clubs and especially for new clubs.
It's a big issue in many parts of the country also with many clubs in Carlow having just 1pitch which going forward is not.emough.
With the advent of ladies playing football.and camogie- the lack of land for development is a huge issue and is going to get worse as the numbers continue to increase with ladies.
Perhaps clubs will need to come together to address the situation and share facilities as well as holding on to what they already have !
The traditional one pitch club is becoming a thing of the past and clubs banding together so that they can be in a better position to purchase land is I believe one solution to the current shortage.
carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1820 - 09/12/2022 18:28:52
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Replying To Square_B: "Not sure what builders you do be dealing with but facilities & pitches aren't cheap to build or run here either... and we have less members to pay for it. I bet you're not out helping sell 50eur tickets either in the throes of winter... maybe you're sitting instead in the nice bar at the clubhouse having a pint... you haven't a clue." The majority of clubs in Dublin have as many challenges as clubs elsewhere in the country.
You're deluded if you think otherwise. There are a handful of superclubs up here that skew people like you.
Proportionally there are as many superclubs outside Dublin too.
Every club in Dublin is selling Xmas Draw tickets right now. Including the massive clubs. What planet are you on? We all need to keep the show on the road.
You really don't have the first clue about the GAA and the economic reality facing all clubs outside of your own little bubble it seems.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 10/12/2022 10:35:49
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Replying To carlowman: "I agree fully with your post that land or the lack of it is a serious issue in Dublin for current clubs and especially for new clubs.
It's a big issue in many parts of the country also with many clubs in Carlow having just 1pitch which going forward is not.emough.
With the advent of ladies playing football.and camogie- the lack of land for development is a huge issue and is going to get worse as the numbers continue to increase with ladies.
Perhaps clubs will need to come together to address the situation and share facilities as well as holding on to what they already have !
The traditional one pitch club is becoming a thing of the past and clubs banding together so that they can be in a better position to purchase land is I believe one solution to the current shortage." Thanks a Chara. I can see the critical problems that we have with land in Dublin becoming a Leinster wide problem for the GAA in the coming decades, Dublin and the popular are going to continue to spill out over the border in ever increasing numbers, while west to east migration will continue. I'm afraid to say that the problems you guys are experience g in Carlow are only todays problems and unfortunately I think they will only get worse. Innovation is going to be required - we're already developing the "cluster of pitches model" for club and county training, either side of the Liffey in Hollystown and the Spawell. Close to 20 million of an investment, before a spade hits the ground.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 10/12/2022 13:02:58
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Replying To MesAmis: "The majority of clubs in Dublin have as many challenges as clubs elsewhere in the country.
You're deluded if you think otherwise. There are a handful of superclubs up here that skew people like you.
Proportionally there are as many superclubs outside Dublin too.
Every club in Dublin is selling Xmas Draw tickets right now. Including the massive clubs. What planet are you on? We all need to keep the show on the road.
You really don't have the first clue about the GAA and the economic reality facing all clubs outside of your own little bubble it seems." I've friends involved in a couple of the so called superclubs in Dublin. They work as hard as anyone else I know anywhere else in the country at fundraising etc.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11732 - 10/12/2022 14:06:05
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Replying To tiobraid: "Out of curiosity, of that 1.4 million do you know anyone from Roscommon and do any of them play GAA back home? I do wonder why people cant get it into their thick skulls that a lot of people who live in Dublin are not Dubs! A lof of idiots say the same as you each year!" So Dublin is the only county will people not from the county? Wow who knew.
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 10/12/2022 15:04:23
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