HoganStand GAA Football and Hurling

National Forum

Time for the Sin Bin.

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post

You need to Login to Post

Lads and lasses this Black Card is just a really bad idea. It was brought in hastily in response to a hysterical outburst by a certain pundit on RTE. Its not improved to game. Its not consistently applied by refs. To see great warriors like McCarthy, Cooper and Keegan missing most of an All Ireland final due to it was the last straw for me. Time to do away with it and replace it by introducing a 10 minute sin binning for any yellow card offences. Its also time to allow refs use video evidence to help them make the right decision. Thoughts? Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 02/10/2016 12:14:16 1921437 Link
Thoughts are they Keegan's wasn't a black. It was a yellow. Cooper was harsh but it was a hand trip(deliberate trip) Straight black by letter of the law. Felt that Cooper's black was actually a response to not giving one to Small earlier in the game ( clear black card offense). Watch RTE at half time and they talk about pulling down a player. Wrong use of language. Cooper was for a deliberate trip. Btw John Small should have been sent off before half time, between the deliberate trip and attempted strike. But hey that's GAA. The perception is that Dublin are a pure football team. Complete bumpkin. Like all winning teams they must be cynical and they are. Alot of talk leading up to final and replay about this player and that but in Gaelic football nice guys finish last. End of. Ignore the spin. Weary (None) - Posts: 249 - 02/10/2016 12:39:06 1921447 Link
I agree that the black card is not working but not sure introducing a sin bin would help. Why not go back to yellow and red cards and for a cynical foul move the free close to the goals? No matter what rules you change teams are going to find way round them and will do anything to win. I do see the merits of introducing a sin bin but there would be no consistency in its implementation and we would end up in endless debates like the black card. Gaelic football is extremely difficult to ref because there is so much upper body contact and we don't want to make it a non contact sport. We need to make things easier for the ref. Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1874 - 02/10/2016 13:17:19 1921461 Link
I think video refereeing would be a big improvement. They're trialing it in soccer at the minute in a few leagues. It'll be interesting how they work it. Done right it could be just as fast as a ref going down the field to consult his umpires and it'd be a whole lot more accurate. I think it'd clean up the game a lot, with less of the off the ball stuff. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4221 - 02/10/2016 13:25:41 1921464 Link
Yes I agree referees can be reluctant to show a black just like a red while with a sin binning, at least the player gets back on. I wouldn't even make it 10 mins. 7 or 8 would be enough and let refs lash them out for handbags stuff and everything. Teams could be playing 13 a side for most of a game! Floops (Dublin) - Posts: 1623 - 02/10/2016 13:28:08 1921467 Link
The sin bin has been tried out already. You may remember it was tried with the 15 minute quarters. Can't remember why it failed. Can't see it working at club level who would administer, we can't get people to do the line or umpire at club games Video ref not an option with the investment counties wouĺd have to make with big screens etc, Perhaps it is time to go back to Red and Yellow cards only and abolish the appeals rubbish that all teams take part in. All decision stay on the field good and bad. We have all encountered them The only thing I would take from another code woukd be no talking to tthe referee. GDL (Galway) - Posts: 721 - 02/10/2016 14:04:13 1921479 Link
Replying To GDL: "The sin bin has been tried out already. You may remember it was tried with the 15 minute quarters. Can't remember why it failed. Can't see it working at club level who would administer, we can't get people to do the line or umpire at club games Video ref not an option with the investment counties wouĺd have to make with big screens etc, Perhaps it is time to go back to Red and Yellow cards only and abolish the appeals rubbish that all teams take part in. All decision stay on the field good and bad. We have all encountered them The only thing I would take from another code woukd be no talking to tthe referee." The sin bin was indeed trialled and there was uproar from some managers so it was abandoned which was a bad move in my opinion. I believe it should have been retained. Regarding your argument about video refs of course you wouldn't have it at every game, so what? Lets use it where possible. We don't have hawkeye at every game do we? Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 02/10/2016 14:34:18 1921489 Link
Replying To GDL: "The sin bin has been tried out already. You may remember it was tried with the 15 minute quarters. Can't remember why it failed. Can't see it working at club level who would administer, we can't get people to do the line or umpire at club games Video ref not an option with the investment counties wouĺd have to make with big screens etc, Perhaps it is time to go back to Red and Yellow cards only and abolish the appeals rubbish that all teams take part in. All decision stay on the field good and bad. We have all encountered them The only thing I would take from another code woukd be no talking to tthe referee." Would agree with you re the sin bin for club games, just not implementable. Club games should go back to a tick first then onto yellow & red cards. I disagree that the sin bin failed, it was trialled for the FBD, Mc Grath cup & the O Byrne cup & the Ulster Council refused it for the Mc Kenna cup. The results were staggering, less cynical play, more points & goals & less cards shown. The reason it wasn't brought through was Sean Kelly as President being a politician at heart capitulated to the Ulster Council who refused it & pressure by John O Mahony, a well known Gaa journalist & in particular Mick O Dwyer. Micko was on the committee that brought it in but after a Laois/ Kildare game he lost where it ended 13 a side, he threw all his toys out of the pram & wanted it discontinued. This is real true to form Gaa stuff, many didn't want it as they saw it as coming from a Brit sport & aping other sports. Some were against it as it didn't suit the cynical way their teams played. Others hadn't the ba#ls to bring it through once a few inter county managers & media complained. It is too late now to bring it back & even if they do it will be a piecemeal Gaa version that won't work. Perhaps then Gdl is right & the best option is to go back to yellow & red cards. The reality is that the rules & discipline (not hurling) in football are a mess & not enforced so it has become a free for all. Yesterday's spectacle for neutrals was a dire nasty game devoid of any great skill with the main talking points the off the ball incidents. Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 02/10/2016 15:50:16 1921516 Link
Copper didn't trip him he grabbed his ankle ridiculous black card , Keegan's was a joke as well. For them both to miss the rest of the game for that is a disgrace. clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 02/10/2016 17:16:13 1921537 Link
Replying To Uimhir.a.3.: "Would agree with you re the sin bin for club games, just not implementable. Club games should go back to a tick first then onto yellow & red cards. I disagree that the sin bin failed, it was trialled for the FBD, Mc Grath cup & the O Byrne cup & the Ulster Council refused it for the Mc Kenna cup. The results were staggering, less cynical play, more points & goals & less cards shown. The reason it wasn't brought through was Sean Kelly as President being a politician at heart capitulated to the Ulster Council who refused it & pressure by John O Mahony, a well known Gaa journalist & in particular Mick O Dwyer. Micko was on the committee that brought it in but after a Laois/ Kildare game he lost where it ended 13 a side, he threw all his toys out of the pram & wanted it discontinued. This is real true to form Gaa stuff, many didn't want it as they saw it as coming from a Brit sport & aping other sports. Some were against it as it didn't suit the cynical way their teams played. Others hadn't the ba#ls to bring it through once a few inter county managers & media complained. It is too late now to bring it back & even if they do it will be a piecemeal Gaa version that won't work. Perhaps then Gdl is right & the best option is to go back to yellow & red cards. The reality is that the rules & discipline (not hurling) in football are a mess & not enforced so it has become a free for all. Yesterday's spectacle for neutrals was a dire nasty game devoid of any great skill with the main talking points the off the ball incidents." Uimhir, I was taking about when it was used in the National league games of the early 90's with the four 15min quarters not the Sean Kelly proposal. GDL (Galway) - Posts: 721 - 02/10/2016 18:31:42 1921559 Link
Yes, it's definitely time for the Sin Bin. It works well at all levels of ladies' football, from club level upwards, and has cut out most of the cynical play that was creeping into the game. The black card sanction is too severe as it is currently framed. football first (None) - Posts: 1259 - 02/10/2016 19:25:23 1921582 Link
Sin bin introduced. Team that loses a man will for 10 mins have 14 inside their own 45. We will have 10 mins of absolutely rotten football to watch. More than one sin bin in a match will make a farce of a match altogether and matches will end up 8 points to 4. mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 2000 - 02/10/2016 19:28:54 1921583 Link
How is the sin bin implemented in club rugby? Anyone out there know? Top level rugby has sin bin and TMO - works just fine - also in rugby - no talking to the ref. This has to be brought in - AIF was a joke and a very bad advertisment for GAA. Also although Lee Keegan is a great player - he tried his best to get Connolly sent off in both games. He got Sean Cavanagh sent off in quarter final - poetic justice there on Sunday - if he had have stayed on the field I believe Mayo would have won. Diarmuid Connolly - what a player! Well done Dublin! sam2008 (Tyrone) - Posts: 797 - 02/10/2016 19:35:03 1921586 Link
I actually think the black card is a good concept, it supports good football. It's the application that's the problem in its current format, it needs to be supported by a TMO, there is just to much going on of the ball. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 02/10/2016 20:02:28 1921603 Link
The black card is a good idea- and should be retained. It is easily understandable. And gives panel players a chance also. Sin bin is open to abuse also. Who times it? It is ok in professional sports, at the moment it is not needed. galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 02/10/2016 20:09:44 1921607 Link
Replying To Condorman: "The sin bin was indeed trialled and there was uproar from some managers so it was abandoned which was a bad move in my opinion. I believe it should have been retained. Regarding your argument about video refs of course you wouldn't have it at every game, so what? Lets use it where possible. We don't have hawkeye at every game do we?" Condorman, Hawkeye is very poor at times, just look at the major decision it has got wrong through wrong calibration of the ball size etc. No point in implementing at some grounds and not others. That is the usual answer to an Irish problem. Lets say I travel to Navan to see Galway and TMO is required and nothing happens but over in Croke park Dublin are playing Kerry and the same thing happens different outcome and hence the fustration many players and fans experience. If you bring it in, it must be at all County games (Senior only) and with a similar tule to say Tennis were a certain number of challenges can be requested by a team manager, say 2 per half or we would be start/stop all the time. The argument that it is used in Rugby does not stand up in GAA, Rugby has more natural stops in the game. GDL (Galway) - Posts: 721 - 02/10/2016 20:31:44 1921618 Link
Replying To galwayford: "The black card is a good idea- and should be retained. It is easily understandable. And gives panel players a chance also. Sin bin is open to abuse also. Who times it? It is ok in professional sports, at the moment it is not needed." Agreed. Its not that bad. Cynical play was turning into an epidemic before its introduction ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 02/10/2016 21:04:22 1921640 Link
Replying To GDL: "The sin bin has been tried out already. You may remember it was tried with the 15 minute quarters. Can't remember why it failed. Can't see it working at club level who would administer, we can't get people to do the line or umpire at club games Video ref not an option with the investment counties wouĺd have to make with big screens etc, Perhaps it is time to go back to Red and Yellow cards only and abolish the appeals rubbish that all teams take part in. All decision stay on the field good and bad. We have all encountered them The only thing I would take from another code woukd be no talking to tthe referee." I agree. Go back to red and yellows only and implement them properly (ie using common sense). Perhaps Keegan's black was technically a black but in terms of common sense use of rules it was no more than a yellow. Should never have been put off the field for that. Same situation in the semi final when the Tipp centre back got a black against Mayo. In common sense terms it was a yellow too. Unfortunately common sense is a very rare commodity though. PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 02/10/2016 21:25:27 1921650 Link
Replying To Condorman: "Lads and lasses this Black Card is just a really bad idea. It was brought in hastily in response to a hysterical outburst by a certain pundit on RTE. Its not improved to game. Its not consistently applied by refs. To see great warriors like McCarthy, Cooper and Keegan missing most of an All Ireland final due to it was the last straw for me. Time to do away with it and replace it by introducing a 10 minute sin binning for any yellow card offences. Its also time to allow refs use video evidence to help them make the right decision. Thoughts?" I think it was introduced because of the hysterical whinging of a well known Longford media man rather than because of the RTE panellist. PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 02/10/2016 21:29:38 1921653 Link
Replying To GDL: "Condorman, Hawkeye is very poor at times, just look at the major decision it has got wrong through wrong calibration of the ball size etc. No point in implementing at some grounds and not others. That is the usual answer to an Irish problem. Lets say I travel to Navan to see Galway and TMO is required and nothing happens but over in Croke park Dublin are playing Kerry and the same thing happens different outcome and hence the fustration many players and fans experience. If you bring it in, it must be at all County games (Senior only) and with a similar tule to say Tennis were a certain number of challenges can be requested by a team manager, say 2 per half or we would be start/stop all the time. The argument that it is used in Rugby does not stand up in GAA, Rugby has more natural stops in the game." The Hawkeye technology is 'state of the art' any errors have been down to the humans operating it. I would rather we used technology and got decisions right than carry on as we are trusting to the judgement of refs and linesmen. Imagine if the ref could have consulted a video ref in the Louth/Meath Leinster final a few years back? Louth would have had their day in the sun and we would have one less controversy to deal with. Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 02/10/2016 22:14:33 1921663 Link