I keep reading posts on here from people who think that having a 2 or 3 tier football championship is the way to go. Firstly, players will never sign up for a system that excludes them, and as a supporter of one of the weaker teams, keeping lads around for the qualifiers is tough enough, without telling them they cant play in the main championship at all. Also, attendances are struggling as it is, no supporters will turn up for games in a lesser competition. Look at the media, and how they treat lower division league matches. Newspaper reports are usually condensed into a small paragraph, and as for league Sunday, you would be lucky to get a sentence spoken about the lower division matches. Changing the championship will just lower interest in football in many counties, and turn a lot of people off the game at county level.

PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1653 - 24/05/2016 11:14:20    1858045

The players in the small counties dont want it so that settles that. There would be no point in having a 2nd tier competition if the players have no stomach to compete in it.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 24/05/2016 11:38:08    1858057

I think it would work.
The problem currently is that all teams play in a Tier1 championship.
Thus a B Championship will never work if teams play in a Tier1 championship at the beginning and then gets demoted to a Tier2 Championship in the same year.

For it to work...teams would go back training at the start of the year knowing what Tier they are in.
If the likes of Leitrim, Waterford etc knew they had potential championship games to be winning in the summer that could only benefit counties in the long run.

Of course at the moment there are purists who are hoping for another Leitrim/London season where they contended provincial championships but 95% of games now these teams will lose in their provincial championsip, lose players to the US and put in a poor enough showing in the qualifiers.

I think Kerry hurlers is a good example..getting annual hidings in the Munster Championships was doing them no good...they found their level at Christy Ring level and were able to players to get an interest in the hurling team again. They are doing well at the moment, playing and getting a good season out of representing their county in the Tier1 championship again. But they had to lick their wounds for many years to get to this.

maybe to start off there would be disillusionment among some of the weaker counties that they cant get a crack off mayo/Dublin /Kerry but over time players will get used to it and in the long term their counties would benefit.
The level of training involved now even for the weaker counties is too much to just dream about a fable that Leitrim won the Connaught title in 94 or Clare in 92.

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 24/05/2016 12:15:09    1858075

If you had an open draw All Ireland series and a separate provincial system may be the way to go. I honestly don't know of a system that will keep everyone happy. The qualifier system is a bit of a disaster in it's current form. Having to wait 5-6 wks if you've lost in the first round is a total joke. No reason why all provincial quarter finals could not have been played last weekend and this weekend.

moylagh (Meath) - Posts: 484 - 24/05/2016 12:16:40    1858077

Yeah the only way to go is an open draw, everyone in the hat, anyone can draw anyone, knockout competition and off you go. As you need an even number then you can have a qualifier round either again as an open draw to see who has to play it or have it between London and New York. Winners of the playoff then join the other 31 Footballing counties with 16 games/fixtures being drawn. Winners all go in to the next round and the 16 losers go in to a C Championship. Then, with the 16 teams left in the A competition, you will have 8 losing teams who then go in to a B Championship. Play all 3 competitions out meaning each team gets a least two games.

So in summary:
1 - Qualifier to get in to the first round proper - 1 game, 2 teams (or if NY and London have it over 2 legs for a bit of craic)
2 - Round 1 A Competition - 32 teams
3 - Round 2 A Competition - 16 teams, Round 1 C Competition - 16 teams (17 if the losers of the qualifier also get in - would require a qualifier rd)
4 - 1/4 Final A Competition - 8 teams, 1/4 Final C Competition - 8 teams, Round 1 (1/4 Final) B Competition - 8 teams
5 - Semi Finals A, B and C Competitions
6 - Final A, B and C Competitions.

All runs off very smoothly and could be ran over a shorter period than the current set-up.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 24/05/2016 14:28:07    1858138

this is why the all-ireland championship should not be the premier competition. Its a knockout competition where teams of varying standard are pitted against each other. there will always be strongesr and weaker teams. The strongest teams will win and the weaker teams will lose (and that is how it should be , always was and always will be) the league is where you play teams of comparable strength so that should be the primary competition. There is scope for promotion and relegation . So there is incentive to improve. you get 7 competitive games. so how on earth or why a knockout competition became the dominant force in the country is unfathomable. Also why would a team in div 4 choose to train every year to get beaten in the first round and then in the qualifiers with absolutely no chance of silverware 49 years out of 50. But if they dont want a secondary competition well then that's their perogitive but they shouldn't come crying to anybody about the structure. There are Senior,Intermediate and junior clubs in a county, they compete at different levels so why not at county level.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 24/05/2016 14:48:03    1858143

i suppose the only flaw in that would be if 2 top teams were drawn against each other in the round of 32. lets say Kerry met dublin. True it would be a cracking game and generate alot of interest but the loser would go in to the C competition. lets say then another first round draw pitched Donegal v Mayo with the loser also going in to the C competition. you might end up with teams of equal quality and drawing power in all 3 competitions. I think you would have to use a seeding system. or else no B or C competitions at all. just pure knockout, lose and you are gone.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 24/05/2016 15:00:23    1858148

Players dont want it, the only way is to run off provincials earlier and use that as a base for seeding for a 8/4 champions league rd robin type of thing, get rid of league play 4 consecutive weekends then a break, top 2 qualify for knock out, for Sam, bottom 2 have b competition with finalists guarantee seeding fp following year, everything done and dusted on last Sunday pf August leaving plenty of time for clubs.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 24/05/2016 15:30:54    1858164

How will division 3 and 4 counties ever improve their standards playing counties of a similar poor standard? The existing league and back door championship are guaranteeing that the stronger counties stay strong and the weaker counties stay at a poor standard.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7337 - 24/05/2016 16:04:01    1858179

Provincial run as Separate Competitions.

League with 18 in Div 1 with 2 groups...plus semi finals in place of championship.

No County Matches Sep to Dec.

Simples. Everyone happy. Including weaker counties that have something to aim for.

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 24/05/2016 18:39:13    1858232

Keeping all teams in one competition leads to many mismatches - but competitive matches through graded tournaments seems to be a non starter - but somehow we have to 'square the circle' - a good compromise is to use the graded leagues as the feeder to the Big Event (Chase for Sam) and to give teams more activity in the Summer months, the league should be expanded to 10 matches per team, as follows -

NFL Div One (20 teams) - Divide into two equal quality groups A & B - Each team plays all others from the OTHER group (10 matches).
NFL Div Two (12 teams) - Divide into two regional groups N & S - Northern 6, Southern 6 - Each team plays a double-round robin against OWN group (10 matches).
4 Up/ 4 Down between Divs (that is, 2 per group).
All-Ireland Championship - 20 teams qualify from the league [Top 8 from each Div 1 group (A1 to A8 and B1 to B8); Top 2 from each Div 2 group (N1, N2, S1, S2)]. Six teams get 2 chances; other 14 get 1 chance.
Two Chances (Rd of 6) - A1 v B1 (winner to AIC QFs, loser to the Rd of 10; this match doubles as the NFL Div 1 Final); Also, A2 v A3; and B2 v B3.
One Chance (Rd of 14)- Higher/Lower of A4/B4 v Lower/Higher N2/S2; A5 v A8; A6 v A7; B5 v B8; B6 v B7; and N1 v S1 (doubles as NFL Div 2 Final).
Prov Championships - Played concurrently with NFL (doubles with NFL, if possible); Prov Champs increase AIC above 20 teams, if unexpectedly outside the NFL 20 above.
Teams play every two weeks - A and N one week - with B and S the next - and continue to alternate.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2573 - 24/05/2016 18:52:40    1858237

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7337 - 24/05/2016 18:54:25    1858238

Its hard to change tradition in the GAA. Your not going to convince a top level county that winning the National League Division one should mean more than an All Ireland Championship. Similarly your not going to convince a smaller county that being competitive in a second rate championship is better than clashing with bigger teams in the AI Championship. It's like asking why Wimbledon is the biggest tournament in tennis you'll probably get a simple answer down the lines of, because people say it is, or, traditionally it has become recognised as a pillar of the sport. No child growing up in Ireland who has dreams of being a county player one day dreams about any other honour beyond provincial and All Ireland success. Those thoughts stay with players from childhood and even as fully grown adults try telling them they can't compete in the AI after putting as many training session as an elite county player. There's more than just the RTE panel's viewing pleasure at stake here.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 24/05/2016 19:07:43    1858243

The strong teams have always beaten the weak teams. It has always been that way, and will continue.

There is a desire nowadays for everything to be 'fair', all teams to be 'equal', let's all be 'winners', make ye want to puke.

m_the_d (None) - Posts: 1099 - 24/05/2016 19:11:17    1858244

Not to keep going about it, says I as I am about to keep going on about it, within the current structures I think a Round of 16 should replace qualifier rounds 3 and 4.

All provincial championships police themselves with their own seeding. The league has a ranking 1 to 32. In my own humble opinion the league placings should be used to seed teams in the qualifier rounds. It would avoid the situation where an Ulster division 1 county knocked out of the Ulster championship by a fellow division 1 county are being drawn against similar tough opposition in the qualifiers. It would bring some balance to the championship.

Qualifier Round 1:
Draw highest 8 based on league placing against the lower 8 based on league placing with a separate draw to determine the home team.

Qualifier Round 2:
Draw highest 8 based on league placing against the lower 8 based on league placing with a separate draw to determine the home team.

Round of 16:
Draw provincial winners at home against the 4 lower qualifier counties based on league placing.
Draw provincial runners-up against the 4 higher qualifier counties based on league placing with a separate draw to determine home team.

The championship can be run off smoothly enough over 8 rounds:
Round 1: Provincial Preliminary Rounds
Round 2: Provincial Quarter-finals
Round 3: Provincial Semi-finals
Round 4: Provincial Finals
Round 5: All-Ireland Round of 16
Round 6: All-Ireland Quarter-finals
Round 7: All-Ireland Semi-finals
Round 8: All-Ireland Final

A Round of 16 as described above would also help bring some more high class championship games to provincial grounds before the Croke Park series from the All-Ireland quarter-finals onwards.

The GAA seem very reluctant to use home advantage as a reward for winning a championship or a group. Many competitions in other sports help the competitiveness of their tournaments by having such mini rewards at different stages.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7824 - 24/05/2016 19:11:34    1858245

The way forward is to have tiers but have all the tiers have a route to qualifying for the latter stages of the championship.

There are numerous possible ways of doing this but any lower tier champion should be qualifying for say the quarter-finals or last 12 of the All Ireland series.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 24/05/2016 19:30:02    1858259

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7337 - 24/05/2016 20:23:35    1858275

Tiers cause tears lads, they've been unanimously rejected and rightfully so, it's better to focus on more practical solutions than flogging that dead horse.....of course the Gaa seem to be allergic to practical solutions so don't expect much change anytime soon.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 24/05/2016 20:49:41    1858291

A berth in the AI QFs for the NFL Champ from the Weakest 12 teams is probably too rewarding. I put them in a round earlier - the AI Last 13 - playing in a 'Rd of 10', where 5 winners meet the NFL Div 1 Champ and 2 other 'bye' teams in the AI QFs.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2573 - 24/05/2016 20:51:42    1858293

Re: Tiers - a couple of decades ago, the NFL had 4 divs of 8, with top teams from each div (4, 2, 1, 1) leading to the NFL QFs (although I'm not sure I'd want to see the Divs 1 and 4 champs meeting in 2016).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2573 - 24/05/2016 21:55:35    1858320