Tomsmith here
I just ask the question do a group of elitist players, who in some counties feel that they are aloof from all matters other than pulling on the county jersey know better than County Boards who to pick as a manager.
I ask this question following what I have seen happening in a few counties in recent times.
Leaving the current county situation aside it has been long felt that county players, once established on the county team forget the local/native club and feel that the are a step above the local people ie club members. These players then develop a mentality that we know best and dictate when club games should or should not be played. How many of the big County players will you find out on a Saturday morning, training youngsters. The answer is very few and the new one is the ice bath. God be with the times that a fellow played a county game. came home, did the milking, farming, climb the mountains after sheep and read in the Celt on a Friday when the next game was, None of this Face---- or What-- or them other devices that the can look up how they played, how much the ran during the game. Indeed in my own county a regular feature a few managers use was the clip board man.He decided where the kick out was to go, where the forwards was to stand, did the forward track back . I say to the county players to pull back becore you are about to wreck a wonderful game

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3857 - 19/11/2015 09:32:56    1808377

I'd like to see both hurling & football go professional.

How it would work initially would need to be discussed but part of the problems of heaves v Management is that players are amateur & giving up their time to play while training professionally. Management are professional, or at least most are with Managers being paid 'expenses'. Make the Inter-county game professional. Offer players contracts to play for their county, whereby if they are successful then they are offered a 2+ year contract overlooked by the GAA & local county board. Ensure that everyone is receiving a slice of the pie.

Then, those who are not on contracts to play, should operate at club level. The amateur & professional games should not mix, only when players move from one into the other. I think it would solve a lot of problems.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 19/11/2015 13:19:18    1808442

I would agree with players being professionally paid slayer also but not a hope we,as a small country,could afford to play 64 county panels(hurling & football)a good salary.The only way possible would be to amalgamate a lot of counties up and down the country.Try and reduce the number of counties/teams to,say,16.It would give all teams a fair craic of the whip in winning honours eg Longford/Westmeath/Leitrim,as a new county,coulf field a fairly strong team.We could,possibly,afford to pay this reduced amount of teams.Now,i don't,for one minute think it will happen,but something i've thought about after one of the "weaker"counties get their yearly hammering.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 19/11/2015 15:31:08    1808500

Good man Tomsmith keep up the good work!

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 19/11/2015 15:39:50    1808503

Just think about it though:

County panels be reduced to say 20 full time professionals?
Dual players accommodated as they are contracted to the county not the team
Players being able to look after their own commercial dealings outside of the games
Possible part time players for counties playing at a lower level
County players no longer playing with clubs which should allow the club scene to be run independently of the county scene
A possible two tiered structure in both codes where there is a top tier of full time players and a bottom tier of part time/amateur players

I think it is the way forward.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 19/11/2015 15:47:50    1808511

In going for professionalism you are taking for granted that level of interest would either increase or at worst stay the same , how often have lads come on here and told you there is NOT an appetite for amalgamation of counties , equally how often have volunteers said theyd walk away if armature ethos was eroded ? You honestly think at club level people will give their heart and soul unpaid as they currently do just to see lads pick up contracts , don't think so .
You might as well amalgamate clubs and have super clubs only for as soon as money comes in GAA is over as far as Im concerned .
Money to managers is a poison , so what do fellas want to do ? yep pay players .
Old players , current players were is the appetitie for professionalism ?
Think things are bad at juvenile level now , wait until you see the Mas and Das if theres money in the game , Ive attended soccer games from 10-14 yr olds as I have nephews playing , a decent left foot and the smell of money potential kicks in , its horrendous .
Currently young lads dream of all Ireland glory but hey lets swap that for money .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 19/11/2015 15:49:19    1808513

Damothedub

I see where you are coming from, but this is what happened in rugby 20 years ago and it hasn't ruined the game. If what I said was to come to pass I'd be glad to stick with the club scene. I think the market would determine what is viable - eg an 8 team super All-Ireland championship in hurling, which when you think of it is no different to now.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 19/11/2015 16:06:22    1808519

cuederocket
County: Dublin
Posts: 3110

1808500
I would agree with players being professionally paid slayer also but not a hope we,as a small country,could afford to play 64 county panels(hurling & football)a good salary.The only way possible would be to amalgamate a lot of counties up and down the country.Try and reduce the number of counties/teams to,say,16.It would give all teams a fair craic of the whip in winning honours eg Longford/Westmeath/Leitrim,as a new county,coulf field a fairly strong team.We could,possibly,afford to pay this reduced amount of teams.Now,i don't,for one minute think it will happen,but something i've thought about after one of the "weaker"counties get their yearly hammering.

cuederocket I agree. I think amalgamating counties would make both games more competitive and it would create more of an interest in the weaker counties as well.

mayo_hurler (Mayo) - Posts: 113 - 19/11/2015 16:15:23    1808520

19/11/2015 09:32:56 tomsmith
Tomsmith here I just ask the question do a group of elitist players, who in some counties feel that they are aloof from all matters other than pulling on the county jersey know better than County Boards who to pick as a manager.
I ask this question following what I have seen happening in a few counties in recent times.
Leaving the current county situation aside it has been long felt that county players, once established on the county team forget the local/native club and feel that the are a step above the local people ie club members. These players then develop a mentality that we know best and dictate when club games should or should not be played. How many of the big County players will you find out on a Saturday morning, training youngsters. The answer is very few and the new one is the ice bath. God be with the times that a fellow played a county game. came home, did the milking, farming, climb the mountains after sheep and read in the Celt on a Friday when the next game was, None of this Face---- or What-- or them other devices that the can look up how they played, how much the ran during the game. Indeed in my own county a regular feature a few managers use was the clip board man.He decided where the kick out was to go, where the forwards was to stand, did the forward track back . I say to the county players to pull back becore you are about to wreck a wonderful game Why do you say tomsmith here? Its pointless. Why do county boards in some counties or at least some county board members think they know more on certain issues around county teams than the coaches and players who are involved at those levels?
Do county players really feel they are above club members? Don't find that too often tbh. Why should county players have to coach underage teams on a weekday/Saturday.
19/11/2015 15:31:08
cuederocket
I would agree with players being professionally paid slayer also but not a hope we,as a small country,could afford to play 64 county panels(hurling & football)a good salary.The only way possible would be to amalgamate a lot of counties up and down the country.Try and reduce the number of counties/teams to,say,16.It would give all teams a fair craic of the whip in winning honours eg Longford/Westmeath/Leitrim,as a new county,coulf field a fairly strong team.We could,possibly,afford to pay this reduced amount of teams.Now,i don't,for one minute think it will happen,but something i've thought about after one of the "weaker"counties get their yearly hammering. would there be 64 squsds that would go fully professional? Some could go semi pro. You could limit squads to maybe 15-20 pro players with another 10-15 semi pro which could help in terms of costs

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 19/11/2015 16:47:16    1808532

I don't think we ever get to professionalism. For whatever reason we don't get the crowds to generate enough revenue for it. Going by the 2013 accounts the GAA generated revenues of less than €12m euros, of which €2.5 to €3m were from the semis and final. That's less than €10m total from 60 games. That's just revenues, when you actually talk profits the GAA cleared about €800k in the each of 2013 and 2014. You can't go trying to support even 1 full time panel on €800k. I'm not even sure a league of professional teams playing week in week out would draw enough crowds to do better than the championship average. We are notoriously fickle fans in the GAA. I think this forum highlights a lot of ill-feeling towards county players already. I think that would only be worse in a professional era and we just wouldn't draw enough people to the games.

I think it is a bit of a pity. If it wasn't for tradition I think it'd be great to have a ten team football league. You'd have 3 Ulster teams ( North- Antrim, Down, Derry; South- Armagh, Cavan, Monaghan; West- Tyrone, Donegal, Fermanagh), Dublin, North Leinster (Kildare, Louth, Meath, Westmeath), South Leinster (other 7 counties), Cork (plus Tipp and Waterford), Kerry (plus Limerick and Clare), Galway (plus Roscommon), Mayo (plus Sligo and Leitrim). Would be kind of cool. Teams play against each other home and away, 6 teams qualify for playoffs. You have a second tier of non-professionals playing a season much like the current one, guys hoping to win a professional deal. I think unfortunately it's a pipe dream.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4223 - 22/11/2015 14:29:18    1808987

Bannerman

Tomsmith here

Where do you propose that the finances come from to support pro or as you describe semi-pro teams
Is this nonsensical suggestion for County teams/ Club teams at all ages ??
Please explain yourself

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3857 - 25/11/2015 18:35:07    1809913

Dont know where you got those figures Wham. GAA revenue in 2013 was 55m ,29m in gate receipts alone

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4624 - 25/11/2015 20:36:37    1809933

25/11/2015 18:35:07
tomsmith
Where do you propose that the finances come from to support pro or as you describe semi-pro teams
Is this nonsensical suggestion for County teams/ Club teams at all ages ??
Please explain yourself Please explain yourself why you have to tell everyone you are here. By clicking the "add message" button we know its you who is posting.....
Finances can come from television rights, more sponsorship. Individual sponsors providing finance for each player in a county squad/county board finances/ticket sales/percentage of merchandise sold etc etc

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 25/11/2015 21:06:18    1809938

Finances can come from television rights, more sponsorship. Individual sponsors providing finance for each player in a county squad/county board finances/ticket sales/percentage of merchandise sold etc etc
Ormbanerman

Tomsmith here

Such a load of tripe/codswallop
Where/who is going to look for all this new money
Be real live in the real world, if you were one out in Cavan trying to sell One Euro lottos you would know how hard it is to raise 90,000 to keep a club going not to mention another stipend for a players fund
Country people up here have all sorts of collections to give to at the weekend, the spudman, vegman,milkman, and then the Church collections. So don't tell me to collect for paid players

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3857 - 26/11/2015 08:29:40    1809959

Damothedub

with you all the way on this, the money is just not there for this anyway so you can only be talking pocket money. The amount of "free" time that goes into producing a quality county player is near incalculable. So let me see clubs produce these players for free and then lose them - so why would anyone waste their time doing that?

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 26/11/2015 10:22:39    1809977

ormond
Finances can come from television rights, more sponsorship. Individual sponsors providing finance for each player in a county squad/county board finances/ticket sales/percentage of merchandise sold etc etc
26/11/2015 08:29:40
tomsmith
Such a load of tripe/codswallop
Where/who is going to look for all this new money
Be real live in the real world, if you were one out in Cavan trying to sell One Euro lottos you would know how hard it is to raise 90,000 to keep a club going not to mention another stipend for a players fund
Country people up here have all sorts of collections to give to at the weekend, the spudman, vegman,milkman, and then the Church collections. So don't tell me to collect for paid players Who do you think will look for this money? County boards could most certainly find 30+ sponsors willing to aid the county team in any way they can in combination to using percentage of ticket sales, percentage of merchandise sales etc

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 26/11/2015 10:46:23    1809983

Dont know where you got those figures Wham.

Yeh you're right, I changed my post halfway through and didn't proof read it. The €12m refers to revenue generated by the football championship, that's why I started talking about it being from 63 games. Hurling generates roughly the same funny enough from fewer games.

The 800k profit comes from all GAA revenues.

Professionalism is not possible within the GAA within the foreseeable future.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4223 - 26/11/2015 11:00:10    1809987

Bannerman, will you stop bullying tomsmith please?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 26/11/2015 11:27:39    1809994

Everytime I see 'TomSmith here' I wait for Ormond to say something...

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1054 - 26/11/2015 12:03:14    1810001