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I think this is the best proposal i've seen so far, keeps the provincial championship and rewards winning with seeding, makes league interesting as it is also a basis for seeding.

this has to be the way forward - thoughts?

Colm Parkinson has already tweeted that three competitions are too much and has put forward a counter proposal.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 01/10/2015 15:29:27    1794786

Good for Parkinson... but it's time to stick a flag in one idea

Something needs to be done...

At the end of the day this has come from the players

I think the GPA version has a lot of merit

I like the fact that it's been put together with direct input/consultation from the players

I also like the Jim McG model..

Time to get the best ideas on the one table and start weighing it all up

Looking at the GPA model again... sure it's not 100% perfect but it also boasts a lot of positives

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 01/10/2015 15:56:54    1794799

Looking at the GPA model again... sure it's not 100% perfect but it also boasts a lot of positives

I agree with you Jimbodub,

If it involves consultation with the players it is also constructive in that respect. I think the seeding based on the NFL is a good idea however Parkinson has a point about 3 competitions being too much.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 01/10/2015 16:15:29    1794816

There is alot in this that was not in all other proposals

1) linking the competitions - this would mean no meaningless league games
2) giving weaker counties home advantage against number 1 seeds in pool matches
3) keeping provincial championship interesting (for seeding purposes) reduces the risk of this becoming a training ground for the "bigger teams" and ultimately devaluing the merits of winning it for the weaker counties
4) no big breaks in the schedule

in total it will mean roughly the same amount of matches throughout an entire season but all matches will have far more significance than before

2winjustonce (Mayo) - Posts: 65 - 01/10/2015 16:17:05    1794818

I listened to Dessie talk about the proposal on Newstalk and by and large I would be happy to see the Gaa trial such a system. I'm also happy to see that weaker counties have rejected the idea of a second tier competition (at least without having a go at the top tier first), I was never really a fan of this 2nd tier notion and I think it was championed a bit too much.

It's a good to see both the league and provincials tied into the championship proposal as well, it raises the importance of the league and goes at least some in in retaining the importance of the provincials, the yearly season competitions are no real loss, although I do attend them.

Finally the only thing I'm not sure on is the amount of group games, I very much presume it's going to be 6, especially considering 3rd place also qualifies (which will reduce the number of dead rubber games, but increase to 5 or 6 the amount of games you can lose and still win Sam, in theory anyway) but I'd personally prefer 3 group games with the top 2 qualifying, I think it would make each game more competitive.

But again, by and large I like the proposal and I'd love to see it trialled for a couple of years.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 01/10/2015 16:38:08    1794828

Hate the GPA proposal, really like the Parkinson proposal.

http://www.newstalk.com/reader/47.305.363/48739/blog_list/

I'd make a small change by playing the provincial championships in between rounds in the All Ireland series.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4225 - 01/10/2015 16:46:46    1794834

This is an important proposal I think.

The GPA are now an integral part of the GAA so this is the first idea (that I've seen) for an overhaul of the Championship essentially coming out of Croke Park.

Maybe a sign that change might be on the way?

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 01/10/2015 17:03:28    1794843

Sorry that should say "goes at least some distance in retaining the importance of the provincials" and "early season competitions".

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 01/10/2015 17:06:15    1794844

Reason I hate the GPA proposal is that there's going to be too many rubbish matches. Every tier 1 v tier 3/4 team will be a tanking. Most tier 2 v tier 4 game will also be a tanking. I also don't think people will go for the early start to the provincials. I hate that the group stage only eliminates 8 teams. In another thread I'd suggested a system where you have the same seedings as the GPA but the competition goes as followings.

Round 1 tier 3 v tier 4
Round 2 tier 2 v round 1 winners
Round 3 tier 1 v round 2 winners
Quarter Finals

Much more streamlined than the GPA, you can still play the provincials in May and still have time to run off the All Ireland.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4225 - 01/10/2015 17:14:43    1794848

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 9066

1794843 This is an important proposal I think.

The GPA are now an integral part of the GAA so this is the first idea (that I've seen) for an overhaul of the Championship essentially coming out of Croke Park.

Maybe a sign that change might be on the way?

_________

Absolutely

It's evident that the players themselves want change - we've known this

But as you said Mes - The GPA aren't outside anymore and this without question has a lot of relevance

An important factor that could encourage change within the GAA, will come from the fact that it could be an opportunity to make more money

Never hurts to have that on your side when you're looking to change something..!

You'd be surprised of the doors that'll quickly open...

There's a lot of positive's to the GPA plan and it's very important to recognise that this was built with the input of the players

No question... it's meaty

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 01/10/2015 17:33:05    1794862

great idea,will not happen

ifindoubt (Donegal) - Posts: 133 - 01/10/2015 19:01:08    1794900

Whammo86

Reason I hate the GPA proposal is that there's going to be too many rubbish matches. Every tier 1 v tier 3/4 team will be a tanking. Most tier 2 v tier 4 game will also be a tanking. I also don't think people will go for the early start to the provincials. I hate that the group stage only eliminates 8 teams.

GPA proposal is crap and will have loads of pointless matches (maybe one good game per group)

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 01/10/2015 19:01:35    1794901

Hopefully they will trial it for two years like the GPA suggest. What should grab the GAA's attention is the potential to generate more revenue, that usually focuses their minds.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 01/10/2015 19:13:57    1794906

Christ , why is every proposal so complicated. This is not rocket science. Why not just run a cup competition(the gaa version of the FA cup) based on the old all ireland method, provincial winners, semi and final, open draw no seeding and all first teams drawn have home advantage including the semi finals. Then have a multi division all ireland championship, personally i think 3 tiers with promotion and relegation. For example tier 1
,10 teams , 2 groups of 5 , home and away matches gives 8 meaningful games and top 2 make semi finals. Bottom in each group relegated.

catchturnscore (Longford) - Posts: 149 - 01/10/2015 20:38:11    1794938

The main reason the season is so long is TV coverage, why are the 8 provisional semi finals played over 4 or 5 weekends, each provincial game in each round should be played at the same time, for example 2 quarter finals in Ulster could be played 1 week after the preliminary round then the other 2 quarters the following week, that means you have your 4 semi finalists after 3 weeks, semis same day 2 weeks after the last quarter matches, final 2 weeks after that, it means Ulster champ is over in 7 weeks, Connacht is a joke altogether 1st game May Bank holiday final mid July that's 10-11 weeks to play, the format is wrong it should be New York v 1 of the 5 counties, London v 1 of the 5 and a third match 2 of the 5, all played the same weekend, that means 6 out of 7 will have played in quarter finals with the 3 winners then into the semis with the 1 team that received a bet into semis. Connacht is over in 5 weeks not 11, same plan with Munster, you do not need 4 week break, 2 weeks is enough, cur back on the TV coverage, the entire series could be played over 13-15 weeks, that's under 4 months from preliminary round to the All Ireland final

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 01/10/2015 20:38:39    1794939

I think the idea has merit, and I hope the GAA takes notice.

One thing that disappoints me, is that the GPA don't think the hurling championship needs a similar innovation. I believe they said as much when they originally started talking about these changes a few months ago. If anything, hurling would need such a change more, its unfortunate that the GPA are so disengaged from hurling. Especially when so many high profile intercounty hurlers have called for such changes over the last few months.

But that issue shouldn't stop progress on the football front. I hope it at least starts a productive conversation.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 02/10/2015 16:03:46    1795240

I like the GPAs idea.. League will become more meaningful for everyone.. Provincials prob stay the same.. More Champo games.. Only have 4 or 5 good games a year in champo at the min.. Game of the year could well possibly be in parnell park on Satursay when the might mun take on the Vins.. has more appeal than a lot of games we have had in 2015 championship

AthCliath87 (Dublin) - Posts: 345 - 02/10/2015 16:55:13    1795256

Parkinson's idea in my opinion isn't great. I do not believe that there should be a direct 2 tier competition. Every county deserves there chance to dream. What would interest me with the GPA solution would be the attendences. Would the provincial games attendance's drop significantly due to not having any connection with the championship.
I would like to think that the ain championship attendece would go up as it would be more exciting for teams to play in a new system. This would mean the GAA would have more money which I would hope would be spent on doing up county grounds, eg Navan, Longford Kiladare so counties actually have adequate facilities to host games with 20,000 or more. I also liked the talk of this M50 stadium despite everyone saying it was all for the dubs and what not. Why not build a 50k stadium in dublin or even athlone. It would be perfect for games where croker in practically empty.

I have said this before but virtually NOBODY has said it. How about in the group stages bringing in a BONUS POINT SYSTEM. Eg, 2 points for a win. If you win by more than 6 you get an extra point. You could also get a losing bonus point if you lose by less then 6.Also you could get a bonus point if you reached a big score aggregate such as 22. So for a team that wins by more then 8 and scores 3-13 for example they would get 4 point for a win. What would this do? Reduce defensive tactics. Promote ATTACKING PLAY. And would you look at that, you have attacking attractive games of football being played without changing the sport that is Gaelic Football.

PoppinPoints (Meath) - Posts: 225 - 02/10/2015 17:32:29    1795268

I'd love to know how the consultation period went with the players on this. I remember this exact proposal surfaced months ago around the start of the championship. I wonder had the consultation gone on before then or was it a case of asking do you like ours more than the current system.

Maybe I'm being unfair and that they drew up their system based on some key input from the players.

I don't think it deserves a 2 year trial, I think it is a terrible system that makes the championship boring and ridiculously drawn out. There'll be 48 games in the group stage only eliminating 8 teams. No one bothers with the qualifiers because they're boring this will be WAY worse.

There are good things about it. Seeking a more structured calendar I very much agree with this and the condensing of the provincials is definitely required. It is also a fair system. It also gives teams more games without shunting them out into a secondary competition. I think we should look at the good points and use those to get something better again.

I hate the Kelly/JMcG proposal because their B championship is rubbish. I'm not so against Parkinson's B championship proposal though. If you win the JMcG B championship all you get is a place in the last 16 of next years A championship where you will play one of the top seeded teams. In Parkinson's proposal the promoted teams qualify for a league style competition that gives a team 7 important fixtures at the higher level. I think that's more important than "the chance to dream" afforded by the GPA's proposal.

As a club player I don't like the window for club games to be played. I'd rather county guys play their season, however, long it is (I think 5 months should be a hard limit for this) finish their season at the end of August at the latest and then give clubs the rest of the year.

The hurling definitely needs rejigged also. Maybe after next year. Let's get this right first.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4225 - 03/10/2015 09:32:48    1795360