Sorry about the negative topic but after reading that Derry's minor ulster win was the county's first at any level in 13 years I could help but think how and why!!! We have decent ball players, possibly the 2nd best training ground in the country and no issues with money. We have a great club structure and a loyal (but small) fan base (which the 13 year baron spell must play some part)

Other teams in my head that are underachieving are Antrim, Cork over the last 5 years and Galway. All 4 counties are similar. Big population, plenty of money, good players etc. so unlike some in Lenister you cannot just blame a team for being poor if their neighbours have more money or people. It must be something else.

Thoughts?

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 27/07/2015 09:47:13    1759478

Looking at your list, all of those counties have cities in which gaelic games struggle compared to major competitor sports such as soccer and rugby. I believe it should be a major strategic objective of the Association to strengthen participation rates in major urban areas, due to the ongoing urbanisation of Irish society.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 27/07/2015 10:03:03    1759489

Which team is showing the least potential?
27/07/2015 09:47:13 DoireCityFC
Sorry about the negative topic but after reading that Derry's minor ulster win was the county's first at any level in 13 years I could help but think how and why!!! We have decent ball players, possibly the 2nd best training ground in the country and no issues with money. We have a great club structure and a loyal (but small) fan base (which the 13 year baron spell must play some part)
Other teams in my head that are underachieving are Antrim, Cork over the last 5 years and Galway. All 4 counties are similar. Big population, plenty of money, good players etc. so unlike some in Lenister you cannot just blame a team for being poor if their neighbours have more money or people. It must be something else.
Thoughts? Having a decent training facility doesn't create decent players. Big population and all have cities which means more people are likely to be playing more than GAA and have much greater choice in terms of physical activity

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 27/07/2015 10:22:03    1759503

Gleebo I agree but these counties still have more clubs than most despite the cities. In Derry anyway every primary school (thats wants it) in the county now has weekly coaching from ulster council coaches in both hurling and football. I think this has been shown in the derry hurling team where 5 city boys now started in the last game.

ormondbannerman I aslo agree a training facility doesnt make good player but it should help players become better. I was making the point that Derry have everything in place and i asume cork and galway would too.

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 27/07/2015 10:29:25    1759511

@DoireCityFC I think Derry have been unlucky more than anything in the last few years. Its not like they have been whipping boys in Ulster football. They have performed well in the league too. A lot has to go right and it might be just having a slightly better management team to push on and start winning Anglo celts and challenging in the All Ireland series. Think about Monaghan with Banty, we were pretty good. Great team spirit, good football but sometimes we were found wanting tactically. This current wee bit of success owes an awful lot to him but I don't think he could have brought us any further. Someone may come in after McIver and bring Derry to the next level.

Interesting points about the other counties....Not sure I would throw Antrim in with the others. Antrim are a mystery to me. I get the impression their house is way out of order. I wouldn't necessarily say that for the others. In theory Antrim should be a powerhouse of Ulster but the structure doesn't seem to be there for whatever reasons. I think a team like Antrim could learn a lot from their provincial neighbours. The other teams have had very recent successes and will have success again soon.

seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 27/07/2015 10:32:15    1759514

Cork are certainly underachieveing. No question. We win that league every day. However, it is not due to lack of participation in urban areas. Most of the players in Cork come from the urban areas - city and extended city (ie Cork harbour area where Cork has its largest young population). Our woes do not stem from lack of popularity. Obviously soccer and rugby are popular. However, we have the popluation to facilitate all of these games. We cannot use that as an excuse either.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 27/07/2015 11:00:49    1759537

seanfinn Antrim are a strange one alright. I may be wrong but I heard alot of their best players dont get on the county team due to the clubs they play for. This is a theory in Derry also and if ture we need and outside manager with no club bias.

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 27/07/2015 11:12:24    1759551

Meath are underperforming by some distance, some of the best players to ever pull on a Meath shirt are in present line up, yet we get beat by lack of coherent management plans and been unfit after 3 years of same management, i think i see a trend. Meath have long since neglected underage structures and while that has somewhat been resolved it will take time to filter through. So we in catch 22 situation, first things first is a new passionate management team with clear plans and not just winging it, and a proper fitness coach.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 27/07/2015 11:15:00    1759555

bennybunny cork have some of the best players in the country and a proud tradition. I dont understand how you can BEAT kerry (which in reality you did ;) ) and then lose so badly to Kildare. There seems to be no belief in the counties listed above that they can reach where they bleong

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 27/07/2015 11:15:32    1759557

Antrim are just a mess...
As regards Cork, it not that Cork are doing things wrong ( which a famous Cork goalkeeper thinks) but that in recent yrs Clare, Limerick and Waterford have focused and concentrated on under-age. Waterford have had sucess at Harty Cup and Croke Cup - all with the combined Waterford schools - a great initative which is a recent idea...
I also feel that both Clare and Waterford with increase success don't have a fear of Cork

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1671 - 27/07/2015 11:19:18    1759561

Cork by a mile - 260 clubs in the county.

For me what's notable is the strong success in area where the County Board have zero involvement - the ladies football and camogie teams which have been wildly successful.

A lot of the reasons given for Cork's lack of success in the men's game (dual county/increased urbanisation/competition from other sports etc) look fairly hollow when you consider the ladies games in Cork are pretty much in an identical boat but have still managed to be massively successful.

besidetheditch (Dublin) - Posts: 81 - 27/07/2015 11:52:38    1759591

royaldunne-Which of the current lot are amongst the best to ever wear the Meath jersey? As for under performing Meath last won a Leinster 21 title in 2001 and have only made one final appearance since. Your underage is clearly under performing and has had a knock on affect to your seniors.

TheWestIsAwake (UK) - Posts: 529 - 27/07/2015 11:55:52    1759593

cuchulainn35
County: Armagh
Posts: 1144

1759561
Antrim are just a mess...
As regards Cork, it not that Cork are doing things wrong ( which a famous Cork goalkeeper thinks) but that in recent yrs Clare, Limerick and Waterford have focused and concentrated on under-age. Waterford have had sucess at Harty Cup and Croke Cup - all with the combined Waterford schools - a great initative which is a recent idea...
I also feel that both Clare and Waterford with increase success don't have a fear of Cork

I can't comment on Antrim but I 100% agree with everything else you said. I think Donal Og was wrong in what he said last night. Your last comment is also true. There was a time that the sight of the red jersey would have a Waterford minor team petrified in their boots...not any more..to be clear though, we don't fear them either, we regularly beat all the other counties in Munster/Ireland at the less publicised under 14/15/16/17 grades - it is just when we lose a match at under 18 level, there is a crisis!

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 27/07/2015 12:03:37    1759603

What about Roscommon? We are told the talent is there #thebestisyettocome but the wheels have come off the bus again this year.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11227 - 27/07/2015 12:36:06    1759634

Question for Cork folk : what does Donal Og do now for Cork hurling ? I really like him as an analyst however his attack seemed a little personal last night . Maybe I'm wrong !!!!

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 27/07/2015 12:46:27    1759639

yeah Roscommon is another good example but the reason I mentioned the 4 I did is due to the fact they have proud traditions and should by all logic do well

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 27/07/2015 12:50:45    1759645

royaldunne
County: Meath
Posts: 7966

1759555 Meath are underperforming by some distance, some of the best players to ever pull on a Meath shirt are in present line up

How do you expect people to take you seriously royaldunne. One of the most delusional posters ive encountered on HS

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 2007 - 27/07/2015 12:54:44    1759647

DoireCityFC
County: Derry
Posts: 617

the reason I mentioned the 4 I did is due to the fact they have proud traditions and should by all logic do well
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As you should know, Derry are a small GAA county, with the city being a GAA wasteland. Hurling is also popular, which further dilutes football's playing resources. I'd guess that Dublin or Cork probably have 4-5 times more clubs than Derry do, so it'd be more accurate to say that Derry do quite well for their size, rather than underachieving.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 27/07/2015 13:05:30    1759657

Thomas Clarke I agree and disagree. Derry have 40 clubs, Tyrone 53. Not a huge difference and in terms of success at club level

Ulster club titles

Armagh 14
Derry 13
Down 7
Monaghan 6
Antrim 4
Tyrone 2
Donegal 1

This would indicate to me that derry do underachieve at county level

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 27/07/2015 13:59:43    1759691

DoireCityFC
County: Derry
Posts: 619

1759645 yeah Roscommon is another good example but the reason I mentioned the 4 I did is due to the fact they have proud traditions and should by all logic do well

Roscommon have a proud tradition too DoireCityFC

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12115 - 27/07/2015 14:14:05    1759711