Agree with Limerick manager with his desire to see a B championship. I believe only division 1, 2 should be in A Championship and remaining 3 and 4 division teams in B championship.
This would also make for a very exciting league that should have first 2 round games in October, then close shop til march.

Crossgaa (Mayo) - Posts: 553 - 22/05/2015 12:45:33    1727015

22/05/2015 12:45:33
Crossgaa
Agree with Limerick manager with his desire to see a B championship. I believe only division 1, 2 should be in A Championship and remaining 3 and 4 division teams in B championship.
This would also make for a very exciting league that should have first 2 round games in October, then close shop til march. That wouldn't improve the championship. All teams deserve a fair and equal shot at winning sam. All teams should play same amount of games to win or something like that. Provincial championships should play a role but not be as directly linked to all Ireland championship as now and need to be more stand alone
An A, B format like you are calling for is not wanted by the socalled weaker counties

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 22/05/2015 13:05:13    1727030

would have A and B Champ

16 teams each

A Champ
4x 4 groups
2 top in Quarter Final
bottom 4 team into relegation
2 losers into champ

B Champ


4x 4 groups
2 top in Quarter Final
bottom 2 teams go into a shield who meet (3rd place teams in champ who are automatically into shield semi) in semi final


Teams get minimum 4 champ games crazy likes of Leitrim training in December. I heard clare footballers 21 days in December.
The prob with this format club champ would suffer

HughHunt24 (Cork) - Posts: 841 - 22/05/2015 13:19:39    1727042

Sean Kelly, the former President of the GAA had the best proposal for this I've heard link

After the conclusion of the provincial championships, 16 teams should go into the draw for the Sam Maguire Cup. The rest should go into the draw for the Tommy Murphy Cup (or whatever that secondary championship might be called).

What 16 qualify for the Sam Maguire Cup? Firstly, the two finalists in each provincial championship will progress through to the next stage. That's eight counties.

What other eight counties would make up the final 16? After year one the winners and runners-up of the previous year's Tommy Murphy Cup would qualify. This in itself would give real status to the Tommy Murphy Cup. This brings the total to 10 counties. The other six counties (eight in year one) would be selected on their position in the national league. Parallels can be drawn with the Premier League where finishing in the top four qualifies teams for the Champions League, while finishing fifth or sixth lands you Europa League football.

So a DIvision One side would be guaranteed a last 16 position whilst Division Two would have to make sure they finish in top half and div 3 and 4 would need to make a provincial final or else will enter B Championship

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 187 - 22/05/2015 13:41:24    1727054

All teams deserve a fair and equal shot at winning sam.

A nice thought but they don't.

Football needs to go like hurling - a tiered structure.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 22/05/2015 13:55:05    1727062

It would ruin football in smaller counties, shows the thought some of yous have given to this with the fact your making championships with 16 teams each when 33 teams enter the All-Ireland..

Victorious87 (Wicklow) - Posts: 597 - 22/05/2015 18:08:19    1727216

Sean Kelly's idea is a good one. He was great at promoting lower tiers.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 22/05/2015 18:56:04    1727230

Victorious87
County: Wicklow
Posts: 207

1727216
It would ruin football in smaller counties, shows the thought some of yous have given to this with the fact your making championships with 16 teams each when 33 teams enter the All-Ireland..

How would it ruin football in smaller counties? Target the league and you can qualify for the top 16 - one chance. Get to provincial final- 2nd chance. If your not good enough then you can get an automatic spot in the top 16 the following year by winning the b champ. Those are better odds than Wicklow has now. What do you want? An automatic spot in the all ireland q finals? Have you a better idea?

I can never understand this ''players dont train all year to play in a B championship'' So are people trying to say they do train to be beaten by 15/20 points in games?

As i see it the ''weaker counties'' (my own included) had their chance to develop at Tommy Murphy Cup level but wouldn't play in it as they had ideas of it not being good enough for them.

Lets face the facts the like of Carlow, Wicklow, Waterford etc are never going to make a meaningful impact at championship level the way things are at the moment, and to think otherwise is crazy.

noone (Leitrim) - Posts: 4 - 22/05/2015 21:01:36    1727274

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 9646

1727030
22/05/2015 12:45:33
Crossgaa
Agree with Limerick manager with his desire to see a B championship. I believe only division 1, 2 should be in A Championship and remaining 3 and 4 division teams in B championship.
This would also make for a very exciting league that should have first 2 round games in October, then close shop til march. That wouldn't improve the championship. All teams deserve a fair and equal shot at winning sam. All teams should play same amount of games to win or something like that. Provincial championships should play a role but not be as directly linked to all Ireland championship as now and need to be more stand alone
An A, B format like you are calling for is not wanted by the socalled weaker counties

Are you high or something? How in gods name is what you've just said even possible? I dont understand why people think the whole championship should be changed because the ''weaker counties'' cant be bothered with developing their underage teams etc

noone (Leitrim) - Posts: 4 - 22/05/2015 21:05:02    1727276

Noone

Its happened in your county that lads left the panel when they were playing in the Sam Maguire, I really don't think that a lot of lads would bother committing to county teams for it, look the virtually non-existent coverage of the Christy Ring why would they want to be forgotten about in a Tommy Murphy? If the GAA and Provincial councils hired more games officers in weaker counties and supported counties to put money in underage the gap wouldn't be as big

Victorious87 (Wicklow) - Posts: 597 - 23/05/2015 11:26:44    1727323

The failing of the Tommy Murphy Cup was it didn't offer a route back into the championship. That was the puzzle the GAA had to solve. I've suggested before that the 8 provincial round 1 losers should enter the Tommy Murphy Cup. This would leave Munster and Connaught with 4 semi-finalists each. Ulster and Leinster would have 8 quarter-finalists each. They should be looked on as 3 blocks of 8 teams providing 5 teams each for a Round of 16.

Connaught and Munster should provide 4 provincial finalists and 1 qualifier county from the 4 losing semi-finalists.
Ulster and Leinster should provide 2 provincial finalists each and 3 qualifiers each from their respective 6 losing semi-finalists and quarter-finalists.

The 16th team in a Round of 16 should come from the Tommy Murphy Cup champion.

Provincial winners should be drawn at home against the 4 lowest placed qualifier counties based on league placing.
Provincial runners-up should be drawn against the 4 highest placed qualifier counties based on league placing with a separate draw to determine the home team.

To summarise:
3 blocks of 8 teams after provincial 1st round.
5 teams from each block making the final 16.
16th position being taken up by Tommy Murphy Cup winner.
Tommy Murphy Cup being competed by provincial 1st round losers.

Note: All provinces would have to agree a seeding for their respective 1st round. Munster and Connaught would have to give provincial finalists a bye. Leinster and Ulster would have to give provincial semi-finalists a bye.

This is a tidy solution within current structures to bring fairness across the championship. Qualifier rounds 3 and 4 unnecessarily bloat the championship and should be replaced with a Round of 16. The GAA has failed to utilise home advantage as a reward. Provincial finalists can enter the All-Ireland series at the same stage. Simply reward provincial winners with guarantee of home game and being drawn against a lower seeded qualifier based on league placing.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 23/05/2015 13:03:53    1727354

Kind of unfair that the two weaker provinces play each other and Ulster and Leinster have to play each other every year

Victorious87 (Wicklow) - Posts: 597 - 23/05/2015 14:09:50    1727367

We already have a,b,c and d championships. Theyre called the allaianz leagues.
There are hammerings dished out in every tournament, from the champions league to wimbledon to the olympics etc.
Every team deserves to play in the all ireland.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 23/05/2015 15:27:16    1727383

It's fair to give 3 blocks of 8 teams 5 places each to play for in the All-Ireland series. The All-Ireland series can be where the All-Ireland aspect of the championship starts. In my example both Munster and Connaught are playing for a solitary qualifier spot between them. Ulster and Leinster are getting 3 qualifier places each.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 23/05/2015 15:29:00    1727385

Whatever format you put on it players won't like it, there's big matches in the 3 lower grade hurling competitions today and nobody is talking about, this will happen to any B football championship

Victorious87 (Wicklow) - Posts: 597 - 23/05/2015 15:56:44    1727388

23/05/2015 15:27:16
joncarter
County: Galway
Posts: 1870

1727383
We already have a,b,c and d championships. Theyre called the allaianz leagues.
There are hammerings dished out in every tournament, from the champions league to wimbledon to the olympics etc.
Every team deserves to play in the all ireland.


Agreed 100% , can not understand the drive for elitism , and those behind it hide behind doing it for the greater good. Where would the weaker counties be if it wasnt for us being concerned for them .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 23/05/2015 16:13:34    1727395

@Victorious87 - it's managers of counties previously involved in the Tommy Murphy Cup that called for it to offer a route back into championship. I'd listen to them before any of us. All counties would be starting off in their provincial championships with every chance of progressing there. The TMC would offer a route for those stumbling at the first hurdle.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 23/05/2015 16:35:31    1727407

All of these discussions about weaker counties are pointless. Monaghan have the fifth loser playing numbers in the country and are well able to compete. The posters from a lot of the weaker counties are happy enough with their two matches a year so they can go back to playing club football. They have no interest in watching their county team playing a match in July against another weaker county which might earn them a day out in August at Croke Park with a trophy to win. Rather wait all their lives for one good year under the current system .

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1103 - 24/05/2015 11:18:42    1727556

To Legendz -
I like your 3x8 blocks with 8-team TMC, simply because it looks awfully like my original 24/7 idea.
I would make 2 changes to your idea -
1) Muns and Conn Final losers in join those from SFs to form 6-team playoff, just like you have for Lein and Uls.
2) After the 8 from Prov Finals (or 6 as I amend) go to AI Last 16, why not have the 3x 6-team playoffs in an 18-team open draw like the Qualifiers - why ensure prov matchups and 5 from each block - 9 winners to join 6 Finalists in AI Last 16 - inter-prov pairings would allow stronger provs to have more than 5 coming thru.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 24/05/2015 18:35:08    1727771