Sometimes it's not arriving at the answer that is the problem but asking the right question. The question is "how do we make the All Ireland Senior Football Championship more appealing to players and supporters whilst at the same time protecting tradition?"
Below is a simple solution;
Phase 1 - provincial cup competitions - keep them!!!
Phase 2 - National Football leagues - keep them, they continue to get better!
Phase 3 - The provincial championship - keep them! Provincial control and administration is vital and every senior inter county football must have the opportunity to win a provincial medal
Phase 4 - The top 16 enter the All Ireland Premiership and the bottom 16 enters the All Ireland Championship. Two go up and two go down every year! Use the current league standings to create the initial groups and then split each group in two, North and South (imaginary line running across the north midlands) to ensure championship derbies are maintained.
The above is very simple…..it's all staring us in the face!

sportsfan14 (USA) - Posts: 281 - 30/03/2015 14:59:27    1708425

Yeah fit club comps around an extra 6 or so games for every county? With the addition of a mirror stupidity is staring you in the face.

sceptical (Cavan) - Posts: 544 - 30/03/2015 15:24:27    1708444

sceptical
County: Cavan
Posts: 125

1708444 Yeah fit club comps around an extra 6 or so games for every county? With the addition of a mirror stupidity is staring you in the face.

Well Sceptical, the names fits you anyway....
There would be no extra games? Only a relegation battle in The Premiership?

sportsfan14 (USA) - Posts: 281 - 30/03/2015 15:37:09    1708454

Actually i was harsh here. I believe that I misread your idea.

sceptical (Cavan) - Posts: 544 - 30/03/2015 15:44:58    1708459

Sportsfan - I'm not sure if your posts were a wind up or serious (I suspect wind up), but I'd love to know how Phase 4 of your masterplan works. Is each team in the 'Premiership (!!!)' and 'Championship' expected to play 15 games throughout the summer? If not, how would a promotion and relegation system work?

Ballboy (Dublin) - Posts: 88 - 30/03/2015 16:28:22    1708482

Why not continue to have the 16 based on League standings. That would increase interest in the leagues.
besides that I don't see any issues with your suggestion however I don't feel this format will be implemented.

dstuction (Donegal) - Posts: 1209 - 30/03/2015 16:36:05    1708491

32 county open draw straight knockout with extra-time in the event of a draw.for the sam maguire.

otherwise have a two competitions, senior and intermediate. (top 2 divisions play senior, bottom 2 intermediate.)

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 30/03/2015 16:39:03    1708494

My problem with solutions such as this one is for the second tier championship, it will lack interest and attendances will be very low for these games. I think it might work if they done a 32 champions league format, with top 2 from each group going through to last 16 and bottom 2 going through to a second tier competition whereby 4th from group A for example plays 3rd from group B. This would lead to 2 straight knockout competitions. Obviously the 1st tier would be the more prestigious cup nd that would be the Sam Maguire but the fact that all teams are put into the same competition at the start is only fair as a smaller team could catch out a big gun once in a while. Seeding from the group could be done from the allianz leagues eg 1 team division 1, 1 team division 2, 1 team division 3 and 1 team division 4. Each team would play each other in the group stages TWICE, both home and away maby. This would allow weaker counties have at least 7 games in the championship where they play 6 group games and one game in the lower tier championship. This would get rid of the problem of weaker counties training as hard as stronger counties but only playing two games in the championship. Group games could be played Saturdays and Sundays over the summer months, and the knockouts begin in August. Another idea that I think would work well would be the introduction of bonus points into the group stages, such as win by more than 4 points, a bonus point, lose by less than 4 points, a bonus point, and score 3 or more goals, a bonus point. This would work brilliant. We could have frantic games played on the final day whereby both teams need bonus points and it could be something similar to the six nations final day. this would obviously lead to ATTACKING FOOTBALL. It would also keep the same sport in place and scrap all these stupid proposes of keeping 4 attackers in your half etc. I think this would work really well, anybody else agree?

PoppinPoints (Meath) - Posts: 225 - 30/03/2015 16:40:52    1708499

no bother Sceptical .....Its a pain seeing all these different ideas whilst screwing over club players. This new system would mean no more games at all really so the club game shouldn't be any worse affected. Again county boards and managers will always dictate this.
You have two groups of 8..... You get two games like the current format at least and if you keep wining the maximum amount of games you will get would be 5. Nothing more than that. The key is to have local derbies.
In terms of the argument about second tier at least the players have something to aim for and not meaningless qualifiers. You can still have giant killing in the provincial championships.
Basically I am changing very little here back splitting the championship? Open draw wont work outside of the top 7 or 8 counties.

sportsfan14 (USA) - Posts: 281 - 30/03/2015 17:03:11    1708513

Ballboy
County: Dublin
Posts: 71

1708482 Sportsfan - I'm not sure if your posts were a wind up or serious (I suspect wind up), but I'd love to know how Phase 4 of your masterplan works. Is each team in the 'Premiership (!!!)' and 'Championship' expected to play 15 games throughout the summer? If not, how would a promotion and relegation system work?

I can understand how Premiership gives the suggestion of a league but I would have an open draw amongst the groups....2 games at a minimum and 5 to win the competition.....no more games than now but at least they are competitive

sportsfan14 (USA) - Posts: 281 - 30/03/2015 17:05:46    1708515

Replace the provincial championship with the league, gives teams the chance to be provincial champions. Run it in spring. Then run the league over summer.

crikey (Australia) - Posts: 355 - 30/03/2015 20:10:45    1708633

Option 1
For what it's worth, and I should know better than to get involved in these never ending championship structure discussions, I think parts of the plan for 4 even groups of 8 could be brought in:

Munster has 6 teams. Two preliminary round losers from Leinster should join the Munster qualifier section:
Qualifier Round 1 - 2 Munster losing quarter-finalists and 2 Leinster losing preliminary round teams.
Qualifier Round 2 - 2 Munster losing semi-finalists and 2 Q1 winners.
Qualifier Round 3 - 2 Q2 winners.
Qualifier Round 4 - Munster runner-up and Q3 winner.

Connaught has 6 teams. Two preliminary round losers, 1 each from both Ulster and Leinster, should join the Connaught qualifier section:
Qualifier Round 1 - 2 Connaught losing quarter-finalists and 2 Ulster & Leinster losing preliminary round teams.
Qualifier Round 2 - 2 Connaught losing semi-finalists and 2 Q1 winners.
Qualifier Round 3 - 2 Q2 winners.
Qualifier Round 4 - Connaught runner-up and Q3 winner.

Ulster has 9 teams. With the preliminary round loser entering the Connaught qualifier section, the remaining teams should go through the Ulster qualifier section:
Qualifier Round 1 - 4 Ulster losing quarter-finalists.
Qualifier Round 2 - 2 Ulster losing semi-finalists and 2 Q1 winners.
Qualifier Round 3 - 2 Q2 winners.
Qualifier Round 4 - Ulster runner-up and Q3 winner.

Leinster has 11 teams. With 3 preliminary round losers entering the Connaught and Munster qualifier sections, the remaining teams should go through the Leinster qualifier section:
Qualifier Round 1 - 4 Leinster losing quarter-finalists.
Qualifier Round 2 - 2 Leinster losing semi-finalists and 2 Q1 winners.
Qualifier Round 3 - 2 Q2 winners.
Qualifier Round 4 - Leinster runner-up and Q3 winner.

The quarter-finals would wind up being made up of the 4 provincial winners and 4 winners of the 4 provincial qualifier sections. This maintains the provincial championships as they are. Ulster and Leinster teams can move to other provincial qualifier sections without entering those provincial championships. As there is no relegation from the All-Ireland Championship and little or no interest is there for a Tommy Murphy Cup, there is not a whole lot that can be done to guarantee all teams a third game in the summer.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7826 - 31/03/2015 21:24:34    1709205

Option 2
One other alternative option is the following:
Munster has: 4 quarter-finalists, semi-finals and a final.
Connaught has: 4 quarter-finalists, semi-finals and a final.
Ulster has: 2 preliminary round teams, quarter-finals, semi-finals and final.
Leinster has: 6 preliminary round teams, quarter-finals, semi-finals and final.

The 4 quarter-final losers from Munster & Connaught and the 4 preliminary round losers from Ulster and Leinster could enter the Tommy Murphy Cup. The qualifiers then could be run as following:
Qualifer Round 1 (12 teams): 2 Munster semi-finalists, 2 Connaught semi-finalists, 4 Ulster quarter-finalists and 4 Leinster quarter-finalists.
Qualifer Round 2 (10 teams): 6 qualifier round 1 winners, 2 Ulster semi-finalists and 2 Leinster semi-finalists.
Qualifer Round 3 (6 teams): 5 qualifier round 2 winners and the Tommy Murphy Cup runner-up.
Qualifer Round 4 (8 teams): 4 provincial runners-up, Tommy Murphy Cup winner and 4 qualifier round 3 winners.

The above achieves a number of objectives:
1. Tommy Murphy Cup winner and runner-up both earn a route back into the championship. Teams losing in the first round of each province have a meaningful reward for reaching the final of the second tier championship.
2. Munster and Connaught semi-finalists enter at the same stage as Ulster and Leinster quarter-finalists. This addresses the issue of teams getting byes to provincial semi-finals and avoiding qualifier round 1 by default.
3. All provincial finalists are treated the same.
4. The trade off for Munster and Connaught finalists being treated the same despite having a round less is that Ulster and Leinster semi-finalists enter at later stage than the Munster and Connaught semi-finalists. For any solution there has to be compromise and that would seem a fair enough solution.

There would have to be an agreement across provinces for seeding teams in the first round of provincial championships. It wouldn't be appropriate to have two Ulster finalists in the preliminary round of the following year with the loser entering the Tommy Murphy Cup. In Connaught and Munster it's probably appropriate for the two finalists to have byes to semi-finals in the following year. In Ulster the team losing the preliminary round should start off in that round in the following year. The lowest placed team in the league from the 4 losing quarter-finalists should be their automatic opponent in the preliminary of the following year. In Leinster the 3 losing preliminary round losers should start off in that round in the following year. The 3 lowest placed teams in the league from the 4 losing quarter-finalists should be the remaining 3 teams in the preliminary round in the following year.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7826 - 31/03/2015 21:25:00    1709207

Ye seem to forget about the club championships, the (former) grassroots of the clg!
Playing soccer champions league style championship will kill off the club scene, which will eventually kill off interest and standards in intercounty, due to lack of club scene to showcase their abilities.
I think we should go back to straight knockout and scrap the qualifiers, but with the amount of training county teams do these days that will never fly.
So, I think keeping the provincial championships but having all qf's from all 4 provinces over 1 w/e (sat and sun if need be), same with semis, and finals too, then an open draw with provincial finalists seeded like a tennis grand slam draw. Matches played on alternate weeks, with club leagues/championships running on weekends off. And county players actually being released to their clubs.
Problem solved

beansycpn (Down) - Posts: 128 - 01/04/2015 10:58:34    1709311

I have to ask a silly question but when was the 3rd man tackle introduced? It's only a few years since I stopped playing and I remember if 2 players tackled 1 player then the 1 player would win his free, what is going on nowadays is rugby tackling, if the rules are followed through properly then this puke football would stop, it's up to managers to come up with a game plan that would introduce free flowing football with equally good defending. Remember a kicked ball travels further than a handpass, our biggest problem is forwards can't seem to win a 50/50 ball, anyway a lot of managers tell players to keep pumping the ball into the goalmouth and we'll see what happens, why don't they use the corner forwards and kick the ball into the corners therefore creating space in front of the goal

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 01/04/2015 12:42:34    1709390