Often thought that reducing teams to 13 a side would create a more level playing field. Its harder for smaller counties to produce 15 intercounty players. I've often heard supporters from different counties say we we were short one or two quality players. I could be wrong of course.

crikey (Australia) - Posts: 355 - 19/12/2014 20:38:53    1679554

I think for hurling it could make a lot of sense. Particularly given the way we're seeing so much bunching and rucks come into the game, reducing the teams to 13 a side would open up a lot more space on the field, which would benefit the more skillful players, I think, and provide us with an even better spectacle. Worth trying out I think.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 19/12/2014 21:09:38    1679561

13 a-side at county level would be a disaster. For anyone that has played in a full back line at 13 a-side will tell you it is nearly impossible to defend against and leaves far far to much space for forwards to run into

BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 932 - 20/12/2014 08:44:39    1679566

BigJoe, the game is not all about the full-backs.

Hurling I believe is fine at 15-a-side (there are other ways of reducing the number of rucks choking the game), the ball moves from end to end more often than it does in football, which is a very different ball game. In football 15-a-side is just too much, especially in the modern game where sweepers are employed and teams look to cover the danger area with numbers.

More space around the D means more successfull kick-passing, which means better football, better entertainment. More one-on-ones, more goals, more points. Honestly, it's long overdue. However there are no guarantees that it will make the game more competitive.

HighKing81 (Meath) - Posts: 129 - 20/12/2014 12:38:20    1679580

13 a side would be a great idea for Football and should have been introduced about 10 years ago.

The reason is simple.More space means more football can be played and overly defensive tactics cannot prosper as much and also it makes kickpassing more worthwhile as in order for kickpassing to be worthwhile you need space in front of players to kick into.

Personally I think it would bring about an instant improvement in football and is the one rule change that could be implemented to improve the game which would not cause much hassle for anyone.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 20/12/2014 13:57:02    1679588

BigJoe14
County: Meath
Posts: 216

1679566
13 a-side at county level would be a disaster. For anyone that has played in a full back line at 13 a-side will tell you it is nearly impossible to defend against and leaves far far to much space for forwards to run into

Brilliant.Sounds like it would really increase the entertainment value which is what the game should be about.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 20/12/2014 14:32:45    1679593

Leave the game alone . 13 a side would be a joke . Imagine if a man is sent off. We had plenty of cracking games this year . The sport is plagued by people wanting to change it for no good reason. Leave the game alone.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 20/12/2014 15:51:57    1679605

Would removing 2 men per team not lead to hundreds more players getting no game time, and being more likely to quit the game?

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1643 - 20/12/2014 16:09:01    1679607

I don't think 13 a side would lead to a more even competition. If anything, it would have the opposite effect. By reducing player numbers, the team with the better footballers will be able to run up bigger scores while lesser teams will find it more difficult to shut them out.

Having said that, I think it would be a good idea. Players are fitter now than ever before and there's just no need to have as many players on the pitch now as there were 100 years ago as they can cover so much more ground nowadays. 13 a side is, in my opinion, the best way to get rid of the turgid handpass and run style of football that has become the norm over the past few years and promote skills such as man marking and kick passing that have become less and less important.

Hank_Scorpio (Meath) - Posts: 60 - 20/12/2014 16:26:57    1679609

13 a side could see a reduction in the importance of skills, with long distance runners more valuable than talented footballers as the space encourages the running and handpassing game. Lads like Dara O'Se, Aidan O'Shea, the Magees etc would probably become extinct in the game, replaced with lads like Michael Dara McAuley and Ross Munelly, who are fine footballers but you need a mix to make the game interesting.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 20/12/2014 16:56:52    1679614

Greengrass, if anything the sport is plagued with people who just refuse to allow change to happen.
Id be willing to try anything that might improve the game, both player wise and spectator wise.
I must be the only man on earth who thinks that modern football is quite entertaining, but new ideas should always be welcomed.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 20/12/2014 17:27:31    1679618

It's been trialed and tested before, in fact at u21 level many counties the game is played in the 13-a-side format. Does it suit runners or playmakers? The evidence clearly points to a game where the kick pass wins out, 15-a-side clearly favours runners. The idea that a footballer like Aidan O'Shea would not be able for 13-a-side is ludicrous, I think that's a bit of wind-up to be fair.

Just out of interest, St. Eunans college in Donegal conducted a study of the merits of 13-a-side for the Young Scientists Award and the evidence was clear. The game was higher scoring, resulted in more chances being created, less fouls and better entertainment for the spectators.

HighKing81 (Meath) - Posts: 129 - 20/12/2014 19:19:56    1679632

No wind up HighKing, I am unsure why you believe that more men on a field means it is better for runners? Using extreme examples, surely in a 20-a-side game you would rather have Kieran Donaghy type men in your full-forward line with long ball kicked in than Ross Munnelly types trying to solo through on goal? Many competitions are 13-a-side over here and the games are higher scoring but lack the intensity and physicality of 15-a-side, with fit guys doing much better and skill not as important. Would you fancy playing Kevin Reilly in a 2 man full-back line?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 20/12/2014 19:30:19    1679634

The evidence speaks for itself, 13-a-side suits players that can kick ball. Kevin Reilly spends most of his time playing in a two-man full-back line anyway because nobody really plays a 3-man full-forward line anymore so that's a moot point.

Ofcourse you would really like to see it trialed properly using the O'Byrne cup or the FBD League for example but I still think the playmakers would shine. After all, the ball is the fastest man on the pitch.

HighKing81 (Meath) - Posts: 129 - 20/12/2014 19:39:14    1679636

I don't know where you are getting your evidence from HighKing. If you ever go to the Kilmacud 7's you will see a lot of young fit footballers, with less of a reliance on skill as they can just run the length of the field. It is fairly obvious that the less men there are on a playing field the more space there is, and the more space there is for runners to carry the ball. You are dodging the question about Reilly, yes most teams play a 2-man full forward line but very few, including Meath, play a 2 man full back line as slower footballers like Reilly would get roasted. He almost always has a sweeper around him to prevent this, something he wouldn't have in 13 a side. Aidan O'Shea struggles with running in 15 a side and was exposed by Dublin in 2013, reduce the game to 13 a side and he would almost certainly become a liability. Trialling this in the winter competitions would be of limited value as well as the style of football is so different to that played on fast ground in summer. I am all for trying new ideas, but any idea that could result in players like Darren Fay, O'Se, Reilly, O Shea, Donaghy etc becoming redundant is not one Id be keen on.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 20/12/2014 20:05:14    1679639

If it aint broke dont fix it. Leave it at 15 as it is.

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 20/12/2014 20:27:22    1679644

OLLIE
County: Louth
Posts: 7380

1679644
If it aint broke dont fix it. Leave it at 15 as it is.

Things can always be improved.

The only argument against it is that lots of players may not game time at club level, which is a good argument.

Perhaps club level could remain the same for that reason but I see no reason why intercounty football can't be changed seeing as that intercounty's main purpose is entertainment.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 20/12/2014 20:56:56    1679649

Highking81, I'm curious as to how the students could possibly quantify and measure "entertainment" for the purpose of that survey. It doesnt sound particularly scientific at all. Did they get the same 2 teams to play a number of matches, all under the exact same comditions, with some games at 15 a side and some at 13 a side, and survey the spectators on how entertaining they found each match?

Also, higher scores doesnt necessarily mean better matches, I'm sure you could get higher scores by removing goalkeepers too, or widening the posts. It doesnt mean they are good ideas.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1643 - 20/12/2014 21:45:46    1679654

The argument in favor is that it could potentially open up defenses that are now currently packed but the reality is I cannot see much difference between having 12 lads behind the ball and 14, it ultimately won't change the defensive nature of some teams. What it would do is just put more pressure on the 13 to be fitter and therefore more time training - do they not do enough as it is. In the states they played 13 a side in order to get teams out but that shouldn't be the problem in Ireland and if a team does only turn up with 13 they concede and they play 13 a side anyway.
However I disagree with the notion that 7s reduces the skills in the game to running and hand passing. The kilmacud 7s is not a great example of what a 7s game should be as it has been destroyed like the 15s game by a defensive strategy. This has been facilitated by the rules - playing 15s rules for a 7s game makes no sense as it just slows down the game. Played at pace 7s is built around kicking and running with the ball.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1800 - 21/12/2014 09:40:02    1679659

The reason there are so many rucks in Hurling is the excessive illegal use of the hand in the first instance. 13 a-side has many attractions for lots of reasons, more open play, smaller panels, at club level could be the difference between fielding or not fielding. Makes the panels more competitive, yeah its win win.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 22/12/2014 21:52:35    1679848