Accessing how juvenile teams should be coached all the way from under 12 up and implications when they reach minor and under 21 and what age is it appropriate to play competitively and what age to introduce different levels of coaching is often difficult to get right, that's why it will be interesting to see down the road, how the St Colmcilles under 12 football team fare, because looking at all the results and tables across all ages in the juvenile Spring leagues they are the one team that are destroying every team in the strongest division. They also have huge numbers at that age with two other teams in two other divisions. They have won all 5 games (beating every team in the division) by an average winning margin of 34 points.
They have a plus point of difference of 170 and the 2nd placed team have a minus 2 points and have more points than the 2nd and 3rd teams combined,
Getting the numbers at that age, been the only club to put out a third team they are doing something right. Obvisously they are been coached to a very high standard for this age, so what do people think, will this team go on to great things, win trophies all the way up, continue to enjoy playing the game and stay together or is been coached to be so competitive so young be a good thing?

madmeath (Meath) - Posts: 50 - 21/05/2015 12:43:35    1726460

Mad meath
You are obviously involved in this team and this is typical of someone who has never coached at a higher level to get so worked up about a under 12 team
Also this team have a number the best under 11s on it in order to win at all cost which flys in the face of you saying "they must be doing something right"
Things change very fast at that age, so don't count your chickens yet
Clubs with good under age structures coach with development of all players in mind in order to feed them into minor, under 21 and adult or as good club men, not to win under 12s at all cost

head4dblackspot (Meath) - Posts: 513 - 22/05/2015 13:44:35    1727056

the sad fact is that most of these SUPERSTARS wont be playing when theyre 18. just looking at the 12 league tables there are a few teams that are running away with their groups. surely these teams should be in the same group. all these teams have played blitz's etc since u8 so surely someone has an idea of what team is at what level. the problem with meath football is that at u14 through to minor thers too many teams running away with their division. this is because grading involves managers being asked how strong/weak their team is. was involved in an u16 league where the top team had an average of over +20 PER GAME. all the other teams were even enough but all were hammered by top team. thats no good for anyone as the top team then think theyre world beaters & other teams just get disillusioned. thats no good for meath football. if it happens in div 1 then fair enough theres nothing you can do but this was in lower division & in my opinion the top team shouldve been 2 divisions higher. while its great to see young lads winning medals its much better to instill a bit of hunger & fight into them from an early age. would rather see any team im involved with give 100% & lose a match than not much effort & win a medal

royal69er (Meath) - Posts: 96 - 23/05/2015 11:41:55    1727325

You are obviously involved in this team and this is typical of someone who has never coached at a higher level to get so worked up about a under 12 team
Also this team have a number the best under 11s on it in order to win at all cost which flys in the face of you saying "they must be doing something right"
Things change very fast at that age, so don't count your chickens yet
Clubs with good under age structures coach with development of all players in mind in order to feed them into minor, under 21 and adult or as good club men, not to win under 12s at all cost

Head4theblackspot.
I Totaly agree with your sentiments in relation to your post above, I think it's a disgrace that somebody from my own club would put a post like this out in the public domain. it signifies a lot of things that's wrong , back in 80s& 90s people like Hillard , oneills, beaky, brannigan never went around boosting of what they were going to win in the future they just kept working with the kids .( & Look at the players they produced O malley,Flynn, the cars, oneills) is just a total embarrassment , a club with a big ego but setting no standards as of yet. PR machine is well oiled here but it's cutting a stick to beat ourselves I believe as it gives oposition teams a huge motivation to beat us. Wait till we win something significant before boosting .

cilles man (Meath) - Posts: 142 - 24/05/2015 09:19:47    1727532

I am not a blogger to the Hoganstand and never have been but I have created this account to set the record straight from the poster madmeath and his comments of 21/5/2015 titled "Interesting to see how juvenile team develops". Firstly I want to say I will blog with my name in lights and wont hide behind pseudonym's in order to post. I suggest if you want to blog, in most instances giving out, you should have the balls to disclose your name. For the record I know the users behind the profiles of madmeath and head4dblackspot.

In any case I want to say couple of things. I along with a friend of mine manage the U12's in St Colmcilles and have done so with this squad since they were 5/6 years old and neither of us are responsible, or did NOT post this nonsense that was posted by madmeath. These are entirely his views and not of the U12 Management. The subsequent views in response to this original post are again the individual posters views. You are entitled to them but I hope on reflection you realise that these comments where not made by us (The U12 Management) and as such you have been fooled into thinking that the poster "madmeath" is running or involved in the St Colmcilles U12 team, which I can assure you he is not.

Finally madmeath I ask you to stop putting up posts like this that are frankly embarrassing for underage Management teams and our club and get the natives in our club and other clubs back's up.


Jude McNabb

judemcnabb (Meath) - Posts: 1 - 25/05/2015 10:07:21    1727960

Like a D'unbelievables sketch- "They'll know all about it when they're playing u-14". People taking this stuff way to seriously.

I think this type of debate, specific to one club should be kept for AGM's.

There are some interesting points within this debate however. I believe underage structures should be deemed successful not by the trophies they win on the way up but specifically by the number of players who make it through to play adult football. Furthermore success is bringing the worst player at u-12 up to playing adult football in my view. Looking at clubs struggling to fill an u-21 team or a 2nd team I think people miss the point sometimes.

GoalsWinGames (Meath) - Posts: 303 - 25/05/2015 11:00:27    1727988

What nonsense. Don't get too carried away by U12 success. Make sure they're all still playing at U15 and in three meantime coach them well & let the kids enjoy their football. No All-Irelands handed out for U12s.

MeathGAAHead (Meath) - Posts: 87 - 25/05/2015 11:43:25    1728025

Too much dirty linen being hung out here. Need to keep this in house.

Kepak10 (Meath) - Posts: 162 - 25/05/2015 19:03:38    1728303

Apologies to the good folk in St. Colmcilles including Jude for any upset I may have caused by starting the thread, (and sorry for not replying till now, there was no response to it in the 1st 24 hours and I hadn't checked) it was not the intention of the thread, I was just using St. Colmcilles u12 team as an example (having looked at all the Spring league juvenile results and tables)of a team been so far ahead of everyone else in their age bracket. I was more interested in peoples opinion on where a bunch of kids like this will be when it comes to minor and u21. I was just putting out there that Jude and his friend seem to be doing a terrific job in coaching the kids to a very high standard and with that attitude a winning mentality instilled in the kids. The question I posed,was, is it healthy at under 12? . At the Coiste na nÓg/Coiste Fé 18 forum last night the chairman of the Coiste na nÓg chairman made his feelings very strong stating division 1 even at under 14 in football and hurling is been taken too sersiously.
I agree with other posters, we are talking about u12's here and lots could change.
I am not in the St. Colmcilles club (with a Mid Meath club)but I do like the results of the work that Jude and his coaches do with those kids, look at their website, each kid is rewarded points on a table with the skills of the game, ie. blocks, high catch, kick pass, etc, match reports on website after every game (which makes kids feel important) which is some length for a coach to go to but I also note on their website that there is very little information on their other u12 teams in lower divisions and wonder what the level of coaching those players get and how players in those teams feel. I hope every club puts the same effort into all kids at this age as the weaker players are often the ones who are most reliable and loyal down the road. I think this debate is not just a Colmcilles issue but all the large town teams and how the level of coaching is put into all reserve teams and as other posters on here outlined including GoalswinGames that success should be deemed at underage not by trophies won but by the number of players that make it through to adult level. That should the goal of every club.
I see on their website that Jude has his u12's competing in an community games rounders this week which also gives variety to the kids.
I have watched football at this age group and below for a number of years and when this bunch of kids were at under 8 and under 10 they were pretty evenly matched with the Ratoath, Dunshaughlin, Dunboyne's and others but at u12 they have stepped up a gear, When I hear the chairman of the Coiste last night saying even at under 14 we are all taking things too serious. I wonder does that then filter down to coaches and lead to laziness and to not putting the same effort into coaching as Colmcilles, is there too much emphasis been put on not winning? I do think the other extreme is not healthy where Colmcilles are going out and winning by 40 points is not healthy for any team and is paticularly tough thing to sort out when it happens in the division 1 of a league, so should we all not be striving to accomplish what the standard Jude has got his team to even at u12? and is it because the coaches at St Colmcilles are more deciated (fanatical some might say)and more interested in developing the kids than in other clubs?
I for one will be interested to see in 6 and 8 years time where this Colmcilles group of players will be and whether the coaching and the instilling a winning mentality at this age will lead to most of those still been involved, enjoying and playing GAA.

madmeath (Meath) - Posts: 50 - 26/05/2015 13:21:52    1728567

It looks as if they are continuing to perform very well. This seems to have been a great performance against good opposition.

http://www.hoganstand.com/Meath/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=238889

oldsam_newsam (Meath) - Posts: 638 - 10/06/2015 08:27:37    1734943

First nobody should takes too seriously what is posted on a board by someone unknown. Obviously the club being discussed is doing something that is good to be able to develop and achieve success. Of course underage is being taken too seriously, however that is not going to change any time soon as it has always been the case. Nobody knows it all and in developing players there is always mistakes made-its called human nature! Do you sent out a team and tell them to never mind getting beaten (or indeed hammered) as it is as good as winning- I think not. I would say develop young guys to their ability and spend more time with the weaker ones as you will need them all, develop a winning mentality and that does not mean you have to win competitions. Some great players never won any underage competition but they were always able to compete. You need a number of teams at the lower the lower ages to counteract the drop off as the get older going into u-16 and onwards (under 15/16 is the big drop off age). I think that you need to be able to manage with fun. Finally I would say that it is better to have numbers and success than no success and I wish the club being discussed here the best of luck going forward and indeed that extends to all people who are devoting many hours to underage in their respective clubs as that is what the real GAA is about.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 10/06/2015 11:05:48    1735052