HoganStand GAA Football and Hurling

National Forum

Leinster football championship is double seeded?

(Oldest Posts First)

You need to Login to Post

The figures for Leinster are stark. The total attendance at this year's championship was 130,469, down 18pc on last year and 22pc on 2014. Over 303,000 attended the 2005 Leinster championship, while the figure remained above 200,000 until 2009. The comparison between the last two Leinster finals is interesting. A crowd of 47,890 attended the Dublin-Westmeath final last year but it dropped to 38,855 (the lowest for a final since the 2004 Laois-Westmeath replay) when the counties met again this year. That's in sharp contrast with the 67,075 which attended the 2008 Dublin-Westmeath Leinster semi-final, followed by 80,131 for the Dublin-Wexford final. http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/perfect-storm-blows-crowds-way-off-course-35151890.html Is the Leinster championship structure partly to blame? The 4 provincial semi-finalists from the previous year receive a bye and are also kept apart in the quarter-final draw. It's like a double seeding. Munster finalists receive a bye from the Munster first round but can be drawn against each other in the semi-finals. Leinster's seeding is Leinster's business. Possibly the Leinster championship can be invigorated by the quarter-final draw being an open draw? legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 22/10/2016 13:23:56 1928312 Link
I have to laugh the Munster hurling championship figures have dropped significantly over past year but that's not the fashion to point that out even though the same two teams met in the final also in that competition with a massive drop from last year to this year. Duffy is only using this as a promotional tool for his championship proposal it's an obvious ploy the week he relaunches it, yet those gullible enough to buy into it should note his proposals will do nothing to boost provincial attendance figures or qualifiers figures and it's in fact the area that is in more demand now than any of those other years the all ireland series that he is actually going to mess with. had they have rescheduled the double header quarter finals of Dublin v Donegal and Tyrone v mayo attendance figures would be all but similiar as it was the othet double header involving kerry and galways matches that saw a poor turnout.also the fact to take into account is the staging of more provincial games on Saturday's is a also causing the drop in attendance in compared to Sunday afternoons but of course Duffy will not point that out as he is looking to increase Saturday games in his plan so a completely flawed layout of figures without even a hint of how successful the national league was this year in getting a first full house in the gaa history hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 23/10/2016 09:37:31 1928411 Link
They should get rid of the seedings in Leinster. They scrapped them for the 1991 Leinster football championship draw and we had the Dublin and Meath four game saga in the first round that changed the GAA forever. OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 23/10/2016 10:16:25 1928415 Link
Yes, I think unseeded byes (like Muns foot) in all provs and both codes would add a bit more excitement. The Qual Rds should also be reformed - early rd (Rd 1) weak teams play local -open draw rds 2 and 3 before reverting to a seeded rd 4 to havd the best in the last 8 AI QFs. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 23/10/2016 15:42:38 1928440 Link
Hardly a surprise that the Leinster football championship attendance figures are in terminal decline, it's just stale with the outcome a foregone conclusion before a ball is kicked. The GAA while pumping large volumes of cash into Dublin have largely ignored the other Leinster counties and the gap is just enormous between Dublin and the rest. AthboyCelt (Meath) - Posts: 147 - 24/10/2016 09:50:48 1928556 Link
Leinster footballs problems have little to do with seeding. I actually think its the fairest seeding in all the provincials. RoyalBadger (Meath) - Posts: 571 - 24/10/2016 10:21:44 1928568 Link
I wonder why the Munster Hurling attendances are so bad. MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13704 - 24/10/2016 10:39:24 1928578 Link
Replying To MesAmis: "I wonder why the Munster Hurling attendances are so bad." A completely fair question. Clare and Waterford aren't great for support. Waterford supporters didn't really travel to Limerick for the final after choosing it as venue. I was an advocate for years that Munster football should seed finalists and not named teams. Leinster's business is Leinster's business. It would just strike me that ye should have an open quarter-final draw. The GAA are speaking of their proposed group stage invigorating qualifiers that have lost their lustre. If the previous 4 semi-finalists happened to be on one side, it would be somewhat interesting on both sides of the draw. Anyways I think it's up to a majority of counties to vote for change and they seem content with the status quo. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 24/10/2016 19:18:58 1928709 Link
I'd imagine if the likes of Carlow or Wicklow knew from the previous october that they were up against Dublin in the first round, it would cast a shadow over their entire year. The knowledge that you're going to lose heavily no matter what you do in the first round would definitely play on your mind. It could be the tipping point that prevents the veteran giving it one more year, or what convinces the younger lad to go travelling for the year. Don't give me the "oh it'll put fire in the belly and have the players show a bit of heart, balls and guts knowing they are up against the dubs and no-one gives them a chance" nonsense. They'll get utterly hosed by a Dublin team going through the motions, from now until the end of time. At least with seeding you might get a Carlow/Wicklow tie, or Offaly/Louth. A reasonably winnable tie for either county that could make the year worth something. CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1642 - 24/10/2016 20:01:00 1928716 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "A completely fair question. Clare and Waterford aren't great for support. Waterford supporters didn't really travel to Limerick for the final after choosing it as venue. I was an advocate for years that Munster football should seed finalists and not named teams. Leinster's business is Leinster's business. It would just strike me that ye should have an open quarter-final draw. The GAA are speaking of their proposed group stage invigorating qualifiers that have lost their lustre. If the previous 4 semi-finalists happened to be on one side, it would be somewhat interesting on both sides of the draw. Anyways I think it's up to a majority of counties to vote for change and they seem content with the status quo." Don't agree Clare or Waterford aren't good supporters or to blame the whole of munster hurling has dropped significantly and yet we still get the over the top media hype for it. Leinster hurling adopts a round robin for the weaker teams I don't see people calling for Kilkenny to play Meath or laois or carlow in an open first round draw. As for duffys proposal all its doing is tampering with the part of the championship that has now become more attended than at any time in the gaa history. We have gotten to the stage where the quarter finals when sensibly fixture scheduled is pulling in 120 thousand spectators for two days and semi finals now pull in 140 thousand for the two days. The demand for the all ireland series is increasing year on year it's not that part that needs changing hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 24/10/2016 20:59:11 1928735 Link
Open draws are the fairest and most transparent means of running a knockout competition. A two tier Leinster appears flawed, and Munster's obsession with interference borders the farcical given the outcomes. Smell the coffee. Knoxboya (Monaghan) - Posts: 357 - 25/10/2016 18:17:34 1928959 Link
I don't see people calling for Kilkenny to play Meath or laois or carlow in an open first round draw. hill16no1man (Dublin) It's fair enough to seed semi-finalists to receive a bye from the first round. It's the quarter-final draw that should be an open draw. Round 1 winners make the quarter-finals on merit. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 25/10/2016 20:53:06 1929008 Link
Replying To RoyalBadger: "Leinster footballs problems have little to do with seeding. I actually think its the fairest seeding in all the provincials." Except ulster and connnacht where there is no seeding? gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 25/10/2016 21:32:38 1929011 Link
Bit of a tangent but does anybody else think the. Championship draw is too early. Get it done after the league. Might generate a bit more excitement. We know a bit more about how the teams are going at that stage also. If the Leinster championship had a group stage I think it'd be a shot in the arm for it too. 2 groups of 4, 1 of 3. Bottom in each eliminated. Quarter finals are seeded based on group performance. 1st place teams don't play each other, 3rd placed teams play a 1st place team. Group winners and group runners up are in a different half of the knockout draw. Takes a little bit of luck out of the draw, right now if you're in Dublin's half you're not going to make a Leinster final. Making a Leinster final is a big deal. Fans get a marquee day. The team are guaranteed a last 12 spot, compared to a last 24 spot for losing semifinalists. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4201 - 25/10/2016 23:16:50 1929031 Link
Replying To gotmilk: "Except ulster and connnacht where there is no seeding?" Connaught draw is terrible. you had roscommon playing three matches to get to the final and Galway only playing one to reach the final. they have a preliminary round and two quarter finals instead of just having there quarter finals, there is no need for two teams to go directly into either semi final when there's seven teams in it. hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 25/10/2016 23:58:12 1929036 Link
Bit of a tangent but does anybody else think the. Championship draw is too early. Get it done after the league. Might generate a bit more excitement. We know a bit more about how the teams are going at that stage also. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:1110 - 25/10/2016 It certainly does seem early. I can only imagine its done at this stage for logistical (e.g. gives those who draw New York a chance to organise) and organisational (e.g. venues, tv rights, administrators etc.) purposes. I'd agree that a later draw would provide a better build up but I'd say there's several reasons behind the early draw. Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 26/10/2016 10:24:28 1929065 Link
Replying To Kurt_Angle: "Bit of a tangent but does anybody else think the. Championship draw is too early. Get it done after the league. Might generate a bit more excitement. We know a bit more about how the teams are going at that stage also. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:1110 - 25/10/2016 It certainly does seem early. I can only imagine its done at this stage for logistical (e.g. gives those who draw New York a chance to organise) and organisational (e.g. venues, tv rights, administrators etc.) purposes. I'd agree that a later draw would provide a better build up but I'd say there's several reasons behind the early draw." The new York tie isn't fine in a draw, its rotated every year. The reason draw is done so far in advance is for fixture scheduling and tv scheduling hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 26/10/2016 10:49:31 1929083 Link
Replying To hill16no1man: "Connaught draw is terrible. you had roscommon playing three matches to get to the final and Galway only playing one to reach the final. they have a preliminary round and two quarter finals instead of just having there quarter finals, there is no need for two teams to go directly into either semi final when there's seven teams in it." The draw in connacht is terrible but there is no seeding in it. In fairness New York ins't a proper game either so I don't buy this Roscommon had to play three games. They had to play 2 and a challenge game. gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 26/10/2016 11:04:39 1929088 Link
Replying To gotmilk: "The draw in connacht is terrible but there is no seeding in it. In fairness New York ins't a proper game either so I don't buy this Roscommon had to play three games. They had to play 2 and a challenge game." They were very lucky to get a win in the Bronx. They only got out of there with a penalty in the dying minutes to win. plus it's the most cost effective game having to travel to America and play. hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 26/10/2016 13:35:07 1929155 Link
Connaught's championship is their business. They could easily seed finalists to have a bye from the quarter-finals while keeping the semi-finals an open draw. Ulster could seed it's semi-finalists to receive a bye from the preliminary round while keeping the quarter-finals an open draw. Ulster's championship is their business. THE GAA SPEAKS: 'IT COULD POTENTIALLY TAKE NINE GAMES FOR AN ULSTER TEAM TO WIN AN ALL-IRELAND' There is an imbalance in both the number of counties and in the relative strength of counties within provinces. We must accept, therefore, that more games are required to win in some provinces than in others. This is an unchangeable fact, so let's move on from it. In addition, the Association's members have made it clear that they wish to continue with the provincial system. This proposal, however, is fair in that each of the eight counties that qualify for the group stage will compete against three other of the best teams in the country. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7818 - 26/10/2016 18:52:16 1929300 Link