National Forum

Letting the game flow and reffing the rules...

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


...seem to be mutually exclusive concepts.

Discuss.

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1422 - 30/08/2016 14:22:17    1908118

Link

Replying To benjyyy:  "...seem to be mutually exclusive concepts.

Discuss."
Agree

Commentators (and a lot of posters on here) seem to love the phrase "common sense" when a referee ignores the laws of the game in an attempt to apparently improve the game as a spectacle. How the hell are players meant to know how to tackle, shoulder, play the ball, etc. if the referee has taken the laws of our game into his own hands and is making it up as he goes along? Sunday was a prime example.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 30/08/2016 14:35:27    1908130

Link

Outside of the hit on Crowley and McMahon I thought he let things go in the right way. No ref gets it 100%.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8586 - 30/08/2016 14:35:32    1908131

Link

Replying To realdub:  "Outside of the hit on Crowley and McMahon I thought he let things go in the right way. No ref gets it 100%."
What about the throw-ups?
I think there were 2 in the game where a 3rd man touched the ball before the 2 who were supposed to contest it. That's not allowed. He did nothing.

What about Donaghy swinging out of J Cooper - that's a black card. He gave a free only.

What about Philly abusing the umpire - that's a black card. He gave a yellow.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 30/08/2016 14:39:44    1908133

Link

Replying To cavanman47:  "What about the throw-ups?
I think there were 2 in the game where a 3rd man touched the ball before the 2 who were supposed to contest it. That's not allowed. He did nothing.

What about Donaghy swinging out of J Cooper - that's a black card. He gave a free only.

What about Philly abusing the umpire - that's a black card. He gave a yellow."
All excellent points and really annoys me is that its dublin v kerry so all is good. But smaller counties like ourselves have not and will not get the same treatment from gough and other referees

Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 765 - 30/08/2016 15:03:48    1908146

Link

Replying To cavanman47:  "What about the throw-ups?
I think there were 2 in the game where a 3rd man touched the ball before the 2 who were supposed to contest it. That's not allowed. He did nothing.

What about Donaghy swinging out of J Cooper - that's a black card. He gave a free only.

What about Philly abusing the umpire - that's a black card. He gave a yellow."
As I said no one gets it 100%, I like the way the game was let flow, don't hear anyone else complaining, if you were to impose every single rule in our game to the letter, there'd be no one left on the pitch.
The rules are ever changing, like the game itself. Very difficult to see everything that goes on during a game, eyes in the back of your head!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8586 - 30/08/2016 15:04:16    1908147

Link

Replying To cavanman47:  "What about the throw-ups?
I think there were 2 in the game where a 3rd man touched the ball before the 2 who were supposed to contest it. That's not allowed. He did nothing.

What about Donaghy swinging out of J Cooper - that's a black card. He gave a free only.

What about Philly abusing the umpire - that's a black card. He gave a yellow."
I have noticed you comment on the performance of the referee a lot on here since Sunday and yet amusingly you are largely incorrect on the 3 things you have criticised him for there!

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 30/08/2016 15:08:08    1908151

Link

Replying To Soma:  "I have noticed you comment on the performance of the referee a lot on here since Sunday and yet amusingly you are largely incorrect on the 3 things you have criticised him for there!"
care to explain?

I may be wrong by identifying Johnny Cooper - some have said it was Ciaran Kilkenny.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 30/08/2016 15:29:25    1908162

Link

We have no real respect for referees. I know it was only a handful of eejits that threw things at the referee (and these exist everywhere) but the punishment could (not saying 'should' in this case) be that Kerry play their next competitive match behind closed doors. We are light years from such a punishment.

The referees in the big games have a terribly difficult job. You have no chance of them applying the rules when the bigger teams will successfully undermine the referee. Eoghan O'Gara was sent off v Donegal. It might have been soft, he may have been provoked. However, he struck a player and the ref was entitled to send him off. Dublin should not have appealed. This happened last year with Diarmuid Connolly as well. Players were sent off and the punishments should have stood. I am not having a go at Dublin here as I can remember examples of Frank Murphy overturning Cork player suspensions.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 30/08/2016 15:32:22    1908163

Link

Replying To cavanman47:  "care to explain?

I may be wrong by identifying Johnny Cooper - some have said it was Ciaran Kilkenny."
It was Kilkenny if the incident you refer to was just before Donaghy went off. To 'swing out of' a player is not a black card, to deliberately pull a player to the ground is. As Donaghy didn't pull him to the ground you are wrong to call for a black card.
As for Philly and you saying he should have been black carded for abusing an official again you are wrong. To abuse an official is a red card, to remonstrate in an aggressive manner is a black card, to challenge the authority of an official is a yellow card. Maybe you know exactly what Philly said but I wouldn't say he was aggressive so a yellow for challenging the umpires decision seems right to me.
You are wrong on the rule about throw-ins as well so while you have displayed great consistency like you demand from referees, it's not in the good way this time.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 30/08/2016 15:57:01    1908187

Link

Replying To cavanman47:  "care to explain?

I may be wrong by identifying Johnny Cooper - some have said it was Ciaran Kilkenny."
Don't see how that was a black card. He didn't bring him to ground. Same as any other drag back or shirt pull.

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1422 - 30/08/2016 16:26:11    1908201

Link

give me whistle happy refereeing,while refereeing all the rules,before ignoring blatant fouling any day.
if players know they can't get away with it,with in 10 minutes they have changed their ways.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 30/08/2016 16:37:47    1908210

Link

Replying To Soma:  "It was Kilkenny if the incident you refer to was just before Donaghy went off. To 'swing out of' a player is not a black card, to deliberately pull a player to the ground is. As Donaghy didn't pull him to the ground you are wrong to call for a black card.
As for Philly and you saying he should have been black carded for abusing an official again you are wrong. To abuse an official is a red card, to remonstrate in an aggressive manner is a black card, to challenge the authority of an official is a yellow card. Maybe you know exactly what Philly said but I wouldn't say he was aggressive so a yellow for challenging the umpires decision seems right to me.
You are wrong on the rule about throw-ins as well so while you have displayed great consistency like you demand from referees, it's not in the good way this time."
I think we're talking about the same incident with Donaghy. He put both hands around the player (let's say it was Kilkenny) and he swung his own body around and threw himself to the ground. He pulled Killkenny down although Kilkenny did manage to stay on his feet and avoid actually falling.

Of course, I have no idea what Philly said - I can only go on body language and his body language was aggressive in manner.

With the throw-in, the rules state that all players except the 2 contesting the throw in should be at least 13m from the throw-in.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 30/08/2016 16:47:28    1908221

Link

Its very easy to pick out referee mistakes. Especially when that's all you're looking for.

Floops (Dublin) - Posts: 1623 - 30/08/2016 16:51:50    1908229

Link

Replying To cavanman47:  "I think we're talking about the same incident with Donaghy. He put both hands around the player (let's say it was Kilkenny) and he swung his own body around and threw himself to the ground. He pulled Killkenny down although Kilkenny did manage to stay on his feet and avoid actually falling.

Of course, I have no idea what Philly said - I can only go on body language and his body language was aggressive in manner.

With the throw-in, the rules state that all players except the 2 contesting the throw in should be at least 13m from the throw-in."
So not only did he not deliberately pull Kilkenny to the ground he didn't pull him to the ground at all. So do you accept Gough was right not to give a black card there?
And you have gone from saying Philly abused the umpire to now saying his body language was aggressive? He never gets very close to the umpire who is probably best to decide if it was aggressive or not. Again the yellow card seems a good call.
Do you want the referee to spend a few minutes marking out 13 metres and making sure all players are the required distance away for every throw-in? Maybe mark it out with a compass and that vanishing paint used in soccer.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 30/08/2016 17:17:56    1908248

Link

Letting the game flow and reffing the rules...
...seem to be mutually exclusive concepts.
Discuss.
benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts:1294 - 30/08/2016 14:22:17 Nonsense. You can do both....

Agree
Commentators (and a lot of posters on here) seem to love the phrase "common sense" when a referee ignores the laws of the game in an attempt to apparently improve the game as a spectacle. How the hell are players meant to know how to tackle, shoulder, play the ball, etc. if the referee has taken the laws of our game into his own hands and is making it up as he goes along? Sunday was a prime example.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts:1738 - 30/08/2016 14:35:27 But they should be allowed the discretion to have their own interpretation and players, coaches should be able to prepare for that. That isn't a referee taking the laws into their own hands.

We have no real respect for referees. I know it was only a handful of eejits that threw things at the referee (and these exist everywhere) but the punishment could (not saying 'should' in this case) be that Kerry play their next competitive match behind closed doors. We are light years from such a punishment.
The referees in the big games have a terribly difficult job. You have no chance of them applying the rules when the bigger teams will successfully undermine the referee. Eoghan O'Gara was sent off v Donegal. It might have been soft, he may have been provoked. However, he struck a player and the ref was entitled to send him off. Dublin should not have appealed. This happened last year with Diarmuid Connolly as well. Players were sent off and the punishments should have stood. I am not having a go at Dublin here as I can remember examples of Frank Murphy overturning Cork player suspensions.
bennybunny (Cork) - Posts:3282 - 30/08/2016 15:32:22How do you change things though?

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 30/08/2016 17:57:26    1908275

Link

Some of these posts are off-topic. Yellow card v black card has nothing to do with letting the game go. The game is clearly stopped to issue the card. I thought he did a decent enough job in letting it run. It was end to end stuff so a difficult one to ref and be in the correct position to make all the calls, Crowley challenge being a case in point. The decision to call McCarthy for over carrying in the first half when he was being dragged out of and only took two steps anyway, was bizarre. It resulted in an easy free and point for Kerry, conveniently overlooked by those who actilually thought that he only gave dodgy ones to Dublin. But this was a fussy call IMO but probably one of the few. In a game that has been blighted by slow hand-passing styles of play with teams playing 15 men in their own 45 and refusing to kick a ball, a referee who is willing to let play flow, within reason, is welcome. If that means that he lets some marginal calls slide then so be it, so if a shoulder isn't 100% square, like O'Mahony and Kev Mc, then with the game being played at full pelt and he having to keep up then he can be forgiven. It made for a great spectacle.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 30/08/2016 18:06:02    1908283

Link

Replying To cavanman47:  "What about the throw-ups?
I think there were 2 in the game where a 3rd man touched the ball before the 2 who were supposed to contest it. That's not allowed. He did nothing.

What about Donaghy swinging out of J Cooper - that's a black card. He gave a free only.

What about Philly abusing the umpire - that's a black card. He gave a yellow."
Philly was protesting the goal, if the umpire couldn't see it was a square ball he shouldn't be there. Did the rule change ?

murphy32 (USA) - Posts: 15 - 30/08/2016 18:22:28    1908288

Link

Replying To Joxer:  "Some of these posts are off-topic. Yellow card v black card has nothing to do with letting the game go. The game is clearly stopped to issue the card. I thought he did a decent enough job in letting it run. It was end to end stuff so a difficult one to ref and be in the correct position to make all the calls, Crowley challenge being a case in point. The decision to call McCarthy for over carrying in the first half when he was being dragged out of and only took two steps anyway, was bizarre. It resulted in an easy free and point for Kerry, conveniently overlooked by those who actilually thought that he only gave dodgy ones to Dublin. But this was a fussy call IMO but probably one of the few. In a game that has been blighted by slow hand-passing styles of play with teams playing 15 men in their own 45 and refusing to kick a ball, a referee who is willing to let play flow, within reason, is welcome. If that means that he lets some marginal calls slide then so be it, so if a shoulder isn't 100% square, like O'Mahony and Kev Mc, then with the game being played at full pelt and he having to keep up then he can be forgiven. It made for a great spectacle."
To reiterate what ive said before it sickens me when referees decide oh its kerry dublin semi final id better make this a spectacle , when the same referees are crucifying smaller counties with black cards all year and they justify it by saying they are only applying the rules.

Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 765 - 30/08/2016 20:34:24    1908354

Link

Replying To Malonemagic:  "To reiterate what ive said before it sickens me when referees decide oh its kerry dublin semi final id better make this a spectacle , when the same referees are crucifying smaller counties with black cards all year and they justify it by saying they are only applying the rules."
Were those games played at the same pace and intensity Malonemagic. These are two huge factors when it comes to some of those calls. The ball was pinging back and forth at a fierce rate, a tall order for any ref to keep up. Not sure about your different rules for different teams argument. Dublin ended up with 12 men in the quarter final. Hardly any favouritism from the ref in that game if that is what you are implying. Black cards are a nonsense though.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 30/08/2016 21:21:54    1908385

Link