Run the provincial championships off in February and March.

Provincial finalists get seeded for the New open draw national football league. Which are 4 divisions with 8 teams.

All remaining teams go into the national league draw and are drawn. Play league as normal on a home and away basis.

Top 2 from each go into the league quarter finals and play off until we have a league champion.

Remaining 24 plays in the championship groups (6x4) seeded based on league positions. Top of each group along with 2 best placed runners up go through to the last 16 of the all-Ireland football championship.

They will be joined by the 8 teams that made the knockout stages of the national league. League finals and championship group games continue at the same time.

Open draw from the last 16 stage (Last 16 - Late July, Qf- 1st week August, sf - 3rd week August, Final 1st week September)

The big advantages are:
1. Keeps all teams playing competitive games until the end of July
2. League run off in better weather during April, May and early June (knockout stages late June & July)
3. Every team gets minimum 3 championship games and a lot of league games will be at championship pace.

boomerang (Mayo) - Posts: 49 - 05/08/2016 10:54:48    1896094

Some nice ideas in there but it's way too radical to get passed. I think they'll want to to keep a straight league and knockout format. Middle of the road teams will go straight from their league group into a new early stage championship group? They may get no knockout games at all in that case. Or am I reading it wrong.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 05/08/2016 11:19:26    1896113

Play the provincials off in May, finalists in each province get top seeding for a champions league style format. There would still be an incentive in these competitions. Rest of seeding could be based on league positions which is played from Mid Jan to March. April is club time. Champions league style format would be really intriguing, last 16, last 8, semis in croker and final. Last 16 and Last 8 could be home games for teams drawn first. If this is a case where a team is drawn out second two years in a row, they get home advantage. I think this would be an ideal competition.

This year a group could consist of tipp, derry, sligo and wexford. Another group, tyrone, meath, longford, antrim. Tyrone might win the group but there would be some battle for second there. Even a group like kerry, armagh, kildare and offaly. Of course there would be soft groups but sure isnt' there in the champions league as well.

Also, scrap league finals, top two get promoted and the first place team gets the trophy. Perhaps a play off final in division 1. Pre season tournaments' should also be scrapped.

222 (UK) - Posts: 691 - 05/08/2016 11:53:44    1896141

Is there really a need? The GAA have spoken. They want to showcase their finest silver in 2 groups of 4.

I attended Christy Ring and lower hurling league games. I would understand something similar in hurling though my county will unlikely be involved.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7821 - 05/08/2016 12:10:06    1896151

I like this idea but the suits in the GAA couldn't get their heads around that much change at once.

This would be my proposals for change. It will have to be baby steps to get real change

Year one - new P Duffy proposal

Year three - reduce league groups to 6 instead of eight to free up more weekends

Year five - bring in a round robin system for weaker counties

Year 6 - get rid of weaker county round robin due to lack of interest


Year 8 - explosion at congress kills off all delegates

Year 9 - all new delegates turn up and remove two thirds majority voting system

Year 10 - scrap provincial championships from main all Ireland championship and move forward in calendar as an early season warm up competition.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1105 - 28/08/2016 14:10:26    1906891

Realistically the provincial championships have to stay as a meaningful part of the greater AI championship. They also have to remain at the height of the summer.

At this point in time any proposal otherwise just wouldn't get through.

Legendzxix's 4 groups of 4 with provincial finalists plus 8 qualifiers. With provincial champions getting 3 home group games could be a realistic runner. I think it'd make for a good season.

The most important thing needed is for the provincial championships to be played off over 7 weeks. That'd sort out a lot of problems.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 28/08/2016 19:44:00    1907096

I do think the league could easily be incorporated into the All Ireland series and that it's a bit of a waste that it isn't.

You get 12 teams qualifying from the league for the All Ireland series. This can be done anyway you want. A simple way would be for 4 groups of 8, top 3 qualify (or top 2 plus 3rd and 4th place teams playing off).

Run the provincial championships. If a team wins their province and is in the league 12 then they get a bye to the quarter-finals, otherwise they qualify for the AI playoff round.

Provincial championships are do or die again. For 20 of the teams the provincial series is needed to stay in the All Ireland. For 12 teams the provincial series is a way to get a bye straight to the quarters.

The season should also be played so that league rounds are played on the 4 bank holidays. St Patrick's day, Easter, May Day and June.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 28/08/2016 20:29:08    1907120

From our point of view yesterday showed the drawback of not having a stiff test. The group stage proposed by the GAA will be a good starting point for all. It can be tweaked as needs be then in time.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7821 - 29/08/2016 13:43:44    1907574

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 29/08/2016 14:48:00    1907632

I do like the idea of a season long NFL and Championship merger, incl. Prov Champps, that is a league phase, followed by a KO - just like NFL or AFL (say, max 15 match max with gaps for clubs within a six-month season.)

However, if the NFL were to stay separate, I'd like the tweaks to the existing two-stream Championship as follows -
4 Prov Champs playoff - 2 winners to AI QFS; 2 losers to Qual Rd 3; 4 Prov Final losers enter Rd 2; and 8 Prov SF losers enter Rd 1.5 (or 1A).
16 Prov non-SF teams enter Rd 1 - 8 winners advance to Rd 2, 8 losers (3rd chance) enter Rd 1.5.

There is better equity here - after initial 8 teams are eliminated in Rd 1.5, the 24 continue as 4 Champs Playoff and 20-team Rd 2.
6 Rd 3 winners join 2 unbeaten Champs in AI QFs.
2-legged Prov SFs in Muns and Conn only ensures all 32 teams (excl NY) are guaranteed 3 matches.
Neat - Simple - and Fair !

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 30/08/2016 19:37:03    1908327

NFL - Divs 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 North, 5 South of 6, 6, 6, 6 and 4, 4, respectively.
Based on Rugby League's Super 8s, the Sixes play 5 matches befire moving on to the Super 4s.
For example - Top 4 in Div 1 (Super League 1) carry forward 5-match points and best 8-match record wins Super League 1.
Bottom 2 Div 1/ Top 2 Div 2 (Div 1 Playoffs) restart at zero points, top 2 with best 3-match records gain/keep Div 1 status.
Bottom 4 of 6 Div 2 play for Div 2 Shield (8-match record), bottom 2 of 4 to Div 3.
Divs 3 and 4 play like 1 and 2 - Super League 3, Div 3 Playoffs and Div 4 Shield.
Div 5 plays double round robin in own region - winner in one region hosts 2nd in the other for Div 5 title.
Lowest 4 play for Div 5 Shield, only if interested, or else go home.
Use NFL positions for Championship seeding as well.
Reform the NHL with the same structure.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 03/09/2016 17:04:58    1909703

I like the idea of using the league for grading teams.

You could have 3 grades of Junior 12, Intermediate 12 and Junior 8.

You run the junior off first 2 groups of 4 with 2 going forward to semi-finals. The Junior winner goes through to the intermediate knockout rounds.

Intermediate 3 groups of 4, Top 2 from each group directly into quarter finals. 3rd Place teams into a playoff round along with the Junior champion. 2 playoff round winners complete the quarterfinals.

Senior run the same as Intermediate with the intermediate champion entering at the playoff round stage.

Senior counties play club championship while they're waiting for the other championships to be completed.

For me ideally the league would be regionalised.

Ulster plus London
Leinster
Munster and Connacht

Top 4 from each league into Senior
5th-8th into intermediate
Rest into Junior

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 04/09/2016 10:23:30    1909838

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 04/09/2016 10:51:13    1909844

Wham - your Senior 12, Interm 12, Junior 8 is essentially like the GPA 8x4 with 22 to the KO, but your grading has the Senior playing a min 3 KO rds but Junior playing a max 10 KO rds. I think I prefer your former idea - higher grades have slightly more teams playing league games as lower grade KOs begin.

With the stand alone AIC and the double stream leading to 2x4 in the AI QFs - successful teams, say Uls prelim winner might play 4 Uls rds, 3 Open Rds and if they lose an Open final, 3 AI QF rds - many may go out with 2 loses. Also, if seeded, a Div 1 Uls Prelim rd loser might wait until Oprn Rd 3 - a long gap and a problem I had with the Carlow Plan too. Seeding could be 8 Lein/Uls SFlists enter Open Rd 3 and 8 Muns/Conn SFlists enter Rd 2. Extending further, you could go for my 'Treble Chance' :) - all guaranteed 3 matches, front door wins from SFs 3, full back door wins req'd 3, and AI Series 3.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 05/09/2016 15:53:40    1910311

Potential one here

NFL as usual except only finals in the top 3 divisions.

16 Teams finishing the league in division 3 and 4 (so includes relegated division 2 teams) play a group stage. Top 2 from each into next round. Final round on May Day

2nd round 6 groups of 4. 12 into AI knockout series. Final round of games on June bank holiday.

Provincial championships played over 7 weeks.

Provincial champions who're also in the 12 emerging from the group stage get a bye to the quarterfinals.

The 8 eliminated teams from the first group stage can play a B championship. It's a warm up for the provincial championships so might be taken more seriously.

More games for the weaker teams.

A filter round so that the weakest teams aren't coming up against the strongest.

League is given more meaning.

No more qualifiers.

Similar system can be used in hurling to get down to 6 teams with byes for the 2 provincial champions.

Big game weekends on the bank holidays

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 19/09/2016 15:32:15    1916367

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 25/09/2016 19:06:44    1918974

I know of a county championship that combines league and championship. League places are used for determining championship fixtures.

On championship format discussion, formats have to be straightforward so that casual supporters who attend the big games and pay the money the GAA want know what stage the championship is at. May to August is the timescale. League is preparation for the championship. Division 4 counties declined the opportunity of a B Championship though the provincial championship afforded a route into the qualifiers.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7821 - 25/09/2016 19:38:14    1918989

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 27/09/2016 16:16:51    1919744

Just curious - which county ?

omahant (USA)

It applies to the lower tier championships of a county in Munster that is not Kerry and is not neighbouring Kerry.

The lower championships are split West and East. League phase sees 8 teams play each other once in two regional divisions. In the championship 1st plays 8th, 2nd plays 7th, 3rd plays 6th and 4th plays 5th in the quarter-finals. The regional champions of West and East qualify for the county final.

One could argue instead of starting with quarter-finals that the top 4 should play in round 1A and the bottom 4 in round 1B. 1A winners direct to semi-finals. 1A losers and 1B winners into quarter-finals. In my opinion it offers incentive for top 4 finish. Each to their own though. We all have opinions. Every county has a structure that suits their needs. We need to be respectful of that regardless of our own opinions.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7821 - 27/09/2016 20:24:57    1919881

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 28/09/2016 23:20:03    1920322