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Is the current GAA product worth the bother???

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Many people will be able to relate to my circumstances. I was raised in a GAA family, primarily hurling, but with a keen interest in football too. We followed our clubs in both codes in every grade, followed our county champions into Leinster. I briefly played underage and minor for my county. I grew up following the greats of the game nationally, the Jack O'Shea's, the Anton O'Toole's, the Plunkett Donaghy's, the Liam McHale's. These were greatest artists of the game - the high fielders. Though Wicklow never made the breakthrough, we always had excellent midfielders in Pat O'Byrne and Fergus Daly. With current 'tactics' in GAA this incredible art, the art that made the crowd roar and made people rise from their seats is near extinction. Growing up I would always look forward to the midfeld battle. Everyone knew the midfielders on all teams. Does anyone know who is in midfield anymore - they are so irrelevant these days - Sean Kavanagh maybe, Rory Kavanagh is another, Michael Murphy occasionally plays a half at midfield. The product in terms of what I have seen this year in championship has been pitiful. Wexford Kildare 0-7 to 0-9. Dublin v Meath in the last 20 minutes was really sad to watch. The hurling today and throughout this championship has been poor fare with this defensive structure they are rigidly adhering to. This isn't the game I grew up with. The future is not bright if this continues. I'm sure like many others I want to see rise off the seat moments. Moments of sheer brilliance, good football, but apparently that's naive football these days. I'm now a retired club player with a wife and 2 children. Pressure is on for Sundays to be family time. My wife isn't the world's biggest GAA fan. I stand my ground because I love the games. I want my son and daughter to play the games when they are old enough. However, the product on show in both Gaelic Football and in more recent times hurling has made that argument harder to justify. Call a spade a spade. the product is poor and getting poorer and it kills me to say it. We are going to lose people in the droves if the games are not watchable and entertaining. Who wants to watch a form of glorified field Basketball and a game where a goalkeeper who has the ability to strike a ball 100 yards hits a short one to his corner back who cannot hit it that far. Is that worth the argument with the missus about Sunday being family time?

Wicklowman (Wicklow) - Posts: 1138 - 24/07/2016 20:54:57    1889373

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Wicklowman (Wicklow) -

The hurling today and throughout this championship has been poor fare with this defensive structure they are rigidly adhering to.

Would you explain to me what this "defensive structure" is that Kilkenny and Tipperary are "rigidly adhering to"?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2447 - 24/07/2016 21:05:13    1889379

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Find a sport you enjoy or embrace the GAA. Simples.

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 24/07/2016 21:20:55    1889387

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "Wicklowman (Wicklow) -

The hurling today and throughout this championship has been poor fare with this defensive structure they are rigidly adhering to.

Would you explain to me what this "defensive structure" is that Kilkenny and Tipperary are "rigidly adhering to"?"
Cockney Cat- I do apologise. Kilkenny and Tipperary are exceptions. They do just go out and hurl. I really was talking about the others and the game and where it seems to be headed in general.

Wicklowman (Wicklow) - Posts: 1138 - 24/07/2016 21:25:19    1889388

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I saw everything skill of the game on show today in Thurles.

Hurling is not as open as it used to be but hey the teams with the sweepers don't seem to be making inroads with it so hopefully it will revert back to more open hurling in the near future.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 24/07/2016 21:26:48    1889389

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'Bother' you say, if that is really how you see the GAA then I suggest you look for alternatives, me, I like my games home grown and relevant, I'll take it, warts and all.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 24/07/2016 21:35:23    1889400

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Replying To Brolly:  "Find a sport you enjoy or embrace the GAA. Simples."
Brolly - think like that if you want. Smart arse response. I love the GAA I am entitled to express an opinion that I don't like where the games are going. I have spoken to many people about this. I'm far from on my own. The product must entertain. That's a simple concept. That or people will stay away especially people who are time poor. Tell me Brolly, have you been entertained by this years championships??

Wicklowman (Wicklow) - Posts: 1138 - 24/07/2016 21:39:08    1889403

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Last time I saw Wicklow play live was 2015 up in Derry. Poor game alright but we had a lot riding on it which may have set the tone.

I love going to see the likes of our teams play. Tight low scoring games for me anyday over walkovers

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 24/07/2016 21:40:45    1889404

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Replying To Wicklowman:  "Many people will be able to relate to my circumstances. I was raised in a GAA family, primarily hurling, but with a keen interest in football too. We followed our clubs in both codes in every grade, followed our county champions into Leinster. I briefly played underage and minor for my county. I grew up following the greats of the game nationally, the Jack O'Shea's, the Anton O'Toole's, the Plunkett Donaghy's, the Liam McHale's. These were greatest artists of the game - the high fielders. Though Wicklow never made the breakthrough, we always had excellent midfielders in Pat O'Byrne and Fergus Daly. With current 'tactics' in GAA this incredible art, the art that made the crowd roar and made people rise from their seats is near extinction. Growing up I would always look forward to the midfeld battle. Everyone knew the midfielders on all teams. Does anyone know who is in midfield anymore - they are so irrelevant these days - Sean Kavanagh maybe, Rory Kavanagh is another, Michael Murphy occasionally plays a half at midfield. The product in terms of what I have seen this year in championship has been pitiful. Wexford Kildare 0-7 to 0-9. Dublin v Meath in the last 20 minutes was really sad to watch. The hurling today and throughout this championship has been poor fare with this defensive structure they are rigidly adhering to. This isn't the game I grew up with. The future is not bright if this continues. I'm sure like many others I want to see rise off the seat moments. Moments of sheer brilliance, good football, but apparently that's naive football these days. I'm now a retired club player with a wife and 2 children. Pressure is on for Sundays to be family time. My wife isn't the world's biggest GAA fan. I stand my ground because I love the games. I want my son and daughter to play the games when they are old enough. However, the product on show in both Gaelic Football and in more recent times hurling has made that argument harder to justify. Call a spade a spade. the product is poor and getting poorer and it kills me to say it. We are going to lose people in the droves if the games are not watchable and entertaining. Who wants to watch a form of glorified field Basketball and a game where a goalkeeper who has the ability to strike a ball 100 yards hits a short one to his corner back who cannot hit it that far. Is that worth the argument with the missus about Sunday being family time?"
Great post but what about Willie Joe? Maybe the best fielder of them all. A bit inconsistent when he landed with the ball. Not like McHale who had the eyes forward looking to see who he could pass it to as he was landing. Willie Joe was like a superhero soaring to the skies to pluck the ball from the air or his rival's grasp. Even at the end of his career when he was a sub and we couldn't see we knew he was coming on. You'd hear the rumble in the crowd starting with the first few to see him warming up. We'd tell each other 'He's coming on' giddy with excitement, maybe he could rescue us. If it was another player you'd hear angry disappointed shouting 'Ah not that b#€€#x'! ' because no-one could stir the Mayo crowd like Willie Joe.

Sorry for digressing. It's a difficult one to solve but hopefully not by introducing the mark. Maybe give 4 points for a goal that results in a clean catch between the 40s from the kickout and can only be moved forward via players by footpassing the ball? Naive thinking but sure I'm a dreamer.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7337 - 24/07/2016 21:50:59    1889411

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DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts:1530 - 24/07/2016 21:40:45

I love going to see the likes of our teams play. Tight low scoring games for me anyday over walkovers

Tight high scoring games for me.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2447 - 24/07/2016 22:05:58    1889422

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Wicklowman you are more than right, the vast majority of gaa matches really are not worth watching with maybe the exception of the last ten minutes in a few games. I've sat down nearly every Sunday this summer and found myself quite literally falling asleep with the Sunday game on in the background. The attendances are saying it all as well, there were 11000 less at this year's Leinster football final compared to last year. Sinead kissane pointed out in yesterday's independent that there were 40% less people at the munster football and hurling final this year compared to last year (not including the football replay). The game is no longer watchable and the attendances are proving that with people deciding in their thousands to stay away because we are no longer getting our money's worth. We'll still probably have a great august and September with weekends full of top class action and a packed croke park, but what about the rest of the year. People telling you to embrace it or revert to a different sport are very small minded because unfortunately that is what people are beginning to do in their droves. The football and hurling are our national sports but they are a bore so I'd be very fearful for the gaa seeing the success of rugby and the popularity of soccer.

LakemenAbu (Westmeath) - Posts: 134 - 24/07/2016 22:26:52    1889431

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Replying To Brolly:  "Find a sport you enjoy or embrace the GAA. Simples."
Great stuff.What will happen then is people who formerly loved the GAA will just watch something else and it'll be yourself and a few others sitting in near empty stands.that's not what anybody wants.

The championship have been really poor in both codes this year. Yesterdays football was good but apart from that it's been fairly poor this year and todays hurling was poor as well .

The GAA really need to pull their heads of of the sand and at minimum change the structure as if we get more games between teams of equal standard we'll get more watchable games.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 24/07/2016 23:57:21    1889460

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Great post Wicklowman 100% agree.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 25/07/2016 08:35:54    1889494

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I think if you see more games like Westmeath v Kildare that without doubt the game is in trouble. No one will want to come and watch that and TBH I don't think the players would want to commit themselves to playing like that either

Unfortunately Donegal beating a tactically naïve Dublin side in 2014 has really kicked all this into overdrive

But that's where the game is at the minute... and if you want to win an AI you have to setup accordingly to combat against such

But it's very important not to celebrate this tactic IMO

It's an ANTI-Football tactic, it's done to reduce risk, but by deploying such tactics and completely committing to it results in a team playing a game that isn't actually football anymore.

There's very little skill in hand passing the ball, there's very little skill in putting men behind the ball, crowding around a fielder, you've seen goading increase off the back of it, you've seen simulation increase off the back of it, the way some describe it as almost "chess" like obviously also like to watch the grass grow, and FYI.... Chess is not an exciting game to watch

So it's just stripping actual skill out of the game, because that's the whole point of that tactic, it gives limited teams the best chance of playing limited football in the most effective way they can.

Unfortunately it's spread like wild fire, and the only way of really combating it is to setup kind of like it. Don't leave yourself exposed to mass counter attacks, hold possession, be patient, try and build a lead, and then just let that overly defensive side remain to play like that until the game is over, or they have no other choice but to commit extra men to attack, and then try to use the extra room to your advantage

It's the nature of the beast at present

In saying that an attack first team like Dublin (but who are also now capable of setting up in a more defensive manner to counter the counter) have won the last 4 NFL Division 1 Championships - going unbeaten in 2016, and under a more attack minded manager have won a couple of All Irelands, so there are some fighting against it and having great success.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 25/07/2016 10:01:55    1889537

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You hit the nail on the head wickloman , years ago i would be looking forward to matchs for weeks , now only for a young lad it wouldnt bother me if i ever went. A lot of factors have created the present average ( to be Kind) fare mainly
Defensive systems
The qualifier not knockout
TV coverage
The attendances at saturdays football qualifiers were embarressing but then again the players say their not there to entertain??

hurler32 (Limerick) - Posts: 867 - 25/07/2016 10:37:55    1889556

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Great post Jimbo.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 25/07/2016 11:15:07    1889587

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Replying To clondalkindub:  "Great post Jimbo."
Cheers man

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 25/07/2016 11:57:45    1889610

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Replying To Wicklowman:  "Many people will be able to relate to my circumstances. I was raised in a GAA family, primarily hurling, but with a keen interest in football too. We followed our clubs in both codes in every grade, followed our county champions into Leinster. I briefly played underage and minor for my county. I grew up following the greats of the game nationally, the Jack O'Shea's, the Anton O'Toole's, the Plunkett Donaghy's, the Liam McHale's. These were greatest artists of the game - the high fielders. Though Wicklow never made the breakthrough, we always had excellent midfielders in Pat O'Byrne and Fergus Daly. With current 'tactics' in GAA this incredible art, the art that made the crowd roar and made people rise from their seats is near extinction. Growing up I would always look forward to the midfeld battle. Everyone knew the midfielders on all teams. Does anyone know who is in midfield anymore - they are so irrelevant these days - Sean Kavanagh maybe, Rory Kavanagh is another, Michael Murphy occasionally plays a half at midfield. The product in terms of what I have seen this year in championship has been pitiful. Wexford Kildare 0-7 to 0-9. Dublin v Meath in the last 20 minutes was really sad to watch. The hurling today and throughout this championship has been poor fare with this defensive structure they are rigidly adhering to. This isn't the game I grew up with. The future is not bright if this continues. I'm sure like many others I want to see rise off the seat moments. Moments of sheer brilliance, good football, but apparently that's naive football these days. I'm now a retired club player with a wife and 2 children. Pressure is on for Sundays to be family time. My wife isn't the world's biggest GAA fan. I stand my ground because I love the games. I want my son and daughter to play the games when they are old enough. However, the product on show in both Gaelic Football and in more recent times hurling has made that argument harder to justify. Call a spade a spade. the product is poor and getting poorer and it kills me to say it. We are going to lose people in the droves if the games are not watchable and entertaining. Who wants to watch a form of glorified field Basketball and a game where a goalkeeper who has the ability to strike a ball 100 yards hits a short one to his corner back who cannot hit it that far. Is that worth the argument with the missus about Sunday being family time?"
Ah here . Just a few midfielders for you, Neil Gallagher, Anthony Maher, Donnchadh Moran, Dennis Bastick, Michael Dara Mc Auley, Brian Fenton, Tom Flynn, Paul Contoy, Gary Brennan, Tommy Moolick, Seamus O Se, Darren Hughes, to name but a few . As for this glorified basketball phrase you should remember that being used in the late seventies to describe football because I certainly do . And as for the rows with your better half mine is only too delighted to see me heading out the door on a Sunday bringing the children with me .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 25/07/2016 12:00:44    1889612

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Great post but what about Willie Joe? Maybe the best fielder of them all. A bit inconsistent when he landed with the ball. Not like McHale who had the eyes forward looking to see who he could pass it to as he was landing. Willie Joe was like a superhero soaring to the skies to pluck the ball from the air or his rival's grasp. Even at the end of his career when he was a sub and we couldn't see we knew he was coming on. You'd hear the rumble in the crowd starting with the first few to see him warming up. We'd tell each other 'He's coming on' giddy with excitement, maybe he could rescue us. If it was another player you'd hear angry disappointed shouting 'Ah not that b#€€#x'! ' because no-one could stir the Mayo crowd like Willie Joe.

Sorry for digressing. It's a difficult one to solve but hopefully not by introducing the mark. Maybe give 4 points for a goal that results in a clean catch between the 40s from the kickout and can only be moved forward via players by footpassing the ball? Naive thinking but sure I'm a dreamer."
Green and red tinted glasses .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 25/07/2016 12:03:33    1889614

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Replying To jimbodub:  "I think if you see more games like Westmeath v Kildare that without doubt the game is in trouble. No one will want to come and watch that and TBH I don't think the players would want to commit themselves to playing like that either

Unfortunately Donegal beating a tactically naïve Dublin side in 2014 has really kicked all this into overdrive

But that's where the game is at the minute... and if you want to win an AI you have to setup accordingly to combat against such

But it's very important not to celebrate this tactic IMO

It's an ANTI-Football tactic, it's done to reduce risk, but by deploying such tactics and completely committing to it results in a team playing a game that isn't actually football anymore.

There's very little skill in hand passing the ball, there's very little skill in putting men behind the ball, crowding around a fielder, you've seen goading increase off the back of it, you've seen simulation increase off the back of it, the way some describe it as almost "chess" like obviously also like to watch the grass grow, and FYI.... Chess is not an exciting game to watch

So it's just stripping actual skill out of the game, because that's the whole point of that tactic, it gives limited teams the best chance of playing limited football in the most effective way they can.

Unfortunately it's spread like wild fire, and the only way of really combating it is to setup kind of like it. Don't leave yourself exposed to mass counter attacks, hold possession, be patient, try and build a lead, and then just let that overly defensive side remain to play like that until the game is over, or they have no other choice but to commit extra men to attack, and then try to use the extra room to your advantage

It's the nature of the beast at present

In saying that an attack first team like Dublin (but who are also now capable of setting up in a more defensive manner to counter the counter) have won the last 4 NFL Division 1 Championships - going unbeaten in 2016, and under a more attack minded manager have won a couple of All Irelands, so there are some fighting against it and having great success."
Dublin are an attack first team because of the fact that they have an abundance of outstanding attacking players . Even Dublin have modified their defensive play because of the very sharp lesson they learned in 2014 . It's easy to be attack minded when you brilliantly talented forwards . No team at the moment have forwards like Dublins

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 25/07/2016 12:07:03    1889617

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