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Many provincial grounds only get a big championship game once every 2 or 3 years.I don't want to bang on about championship formats but something has to change. Again, it is down to counties to bring motions to congress so there can't be too many complaints.
Simply the 8 provincial finalists and 8 qualifier round 2 winners could enter a Round of 16. It could take place across provincial grounds around the country before the quarter-finals onwards are in Croke Park as usual.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7840 - 18/06/2016 17:09:13
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Many provincial grounds only get a big championship game once every 2 or 3 years.I don't want to bang on about championship formats but something has to change. Again, it is down to counties to bring motions to congress so there can't be too many complaints.
Simply the 8 provincial finalists and 8 qualifier round 2 winners could enter a Round of 16. It could take place across provincial grounds around the country before the quarter-finals onwards are in Croke Park as usual.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts:4694 - 18/06/2016 17:09:13 This reduces the number of games and there is no way that these 8 games would be played in provincial grounds. If there was big draws involving bigger sides they would be played in Croke Park.
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 18/06/2016 17:54:32
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Replying To legendzxix: "Many provincial grounds only get a big championship game once every 2 or 3 years.I don't want to bang on about championship formats but something has to change. Again, it is down to counties to bring motions to congress so there can't be too many complaints.
Simply the 8 provincial finalists and 8 qualifier round 2 winners could enter a Round of 16. It could take place across provincial grounds around the country before the quarter-finals onwards are in Croke Park as usual." To be honest I think the quarterfinals should be in provincial grounds also.
Provincial champions playing in their province. They did it right at the start of the qualifiers.
Croker isn't getting filled for double headers at the quarter final stages.
Players like playing in Croker but still you do have to make teams earn the right to get there. Would make reaching the semis a big deal.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4217 - 18/06/2016 18:05:19
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Replying To ormondbannerman: "Many provincial grounds only get a big championship game once every 2 or 3 years.I don't want to bang on about championship formats but something has to change. Again, it is down to counties to bring motions to congress so there can't be too many complaints.
Simply the 8 provincial finalists and 8 qualifier round 2 winners could enter a Round of 16. It could take place across provincial grounds around the country before the quarter-finals onwards are in Croke Park as usual.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts:4694 - 18/06/2016 17:09:13 This reduces the number of games and there is no way that these 8 games would be played in provincial grounds. If there was big draws involving bigger sides they would be played in Croke Park." Exact same number of games. Round 3 and 4 qualifiers have 8 games as would the last 16 round.
Not all 8 games would be played in Croker.
Provincial champions should be guaranteed a game in their province also.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4217 - 18/06/2016 18:24:10
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If a Round of 16 involving 8 provincial finalists and 8 qualifier round 2 winners was ever voted through congress, there would have to be some carrot for winning the province. Sean Kelly has argued for home advantage being used as a reward.
In a Round of 16 draw scenario: 4 provincial winners could be drawn at home against first 4 qualifier round 2 winners to come out of the hat. Provincial runners-up could be drawn against remaining 4 qualifier round 2 winners with a separate draw determining the home team.
Provincial winners would be guaranteed home tie. Provincial runners-up would have 1/2 chance of a home tie and qualifier round 2 winners would have 1/3 chance of a home tie.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7840 - 19/06/2016 10:55:39
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Replying To Whammo86: "To be honest I think the quarterfinals should be in provincial grounds also.
Provincial champions playing in their province. They did it right at the start of the qualifiers.
Croker isn't getting filled for double headers at the quarter final stages.
Players like playing in Croker but still you do have to make teams earn the right to get there. Would make reaching the semis a big deal." I would disagree I think only six couties have got to a semi final in the last 5 years and it hard to see any other county getting to a semi soon. I think if you get to a quarter final then you should be get to Croker as a reward. I wouldn't play any qualifier game in croker thou.
ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 19/06/2016 12:36:58
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Replying To ROS1: "I would disagree I think only six couties have got to a semi final in the last 5 years and it hard to see any other county getting to a semi soon. I think if you get to a quarter final then you should be get to Croker as a reward. I wouldn't play any qualifier game in croker thou." Many people are not of aware of this: When the qualifiers were voted through congress, there was a also a motion to grant provincial winners home advantage in the quarter-finals as a carrot for winning the provincial title.
There was confidence prior to congress of that year that the provincial winners would have home advantage. County Clare led the protests against the motion. County Clare argued that if they made the All-Ireland quarter-finals through the qualifiers, it would be unfair on them to have to travel to Killarney. County Clare canvassed enough counties to vote against motion to give the provincial winners home advantage. As a result, the quarter-finals started out at neutral venues, see 2001 when Kerry and the capital played in Thurles. After that quarter-finals started taking place in Croke Park.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7840 - 19/06/2016 13:23:53
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I like what they do in Munster hurling, when they rotate venues between counties each year it gives teams a home game usually every other year at least. Ulster football need this badly. Down and Tyrone have been nothing short of deprived of home fixtures when the likes of Clones gets far too much use. If today's match was in Breff or Healy it would be a full house and far better atmosphere.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 19/06/2016 15:03:00
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Replying To SaffronDon: "I like what they do in Munster hurling, when they rotate venues between counties each year it gives teams a home game usually every other year at least. Ulster football need this badly. Down and Tyrone have been nothing short of deprived of home fixtures when the likes of Clones gets far too much use. If today's match was in Breff or Healy it would be a full house and far better atmosphere." I can only guess that the 9 Ulster counties have a vote each in the Ulster council?
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7840 - 19/06/2016 15:59:52
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Replying To legendzxix: "I can only guess that the 9 Ulster counties have a vote each in the Ulster council?" it's hard to know. Any changes in Ulster usually happen at slug pace so who knows what goes on up there.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 19/06/2016 16:17:30
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Replying To SaffronDon: "it's hard to know. Any changes in Ulster usually happen at slug pace so who knows what goes on up there." I heard chat that Ulster GAA receive almost full profits from Clones, while if games are held in other grounds, they only receive partial payment.
Can't say there is any truth in this, but I heard Gael's in the past say that was the reason Clones was often favoured for games that could comfortably be accommodated in smaller County grounds.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 19/06/2016 16:37:54
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And who/what will make up for the shortfall in finances? No never will happen.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 19/06/2016 16:53:31
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Replying To arock: "And who/what will make up for the shortfall in finances? No never will happen." Would there be a loss of finance? It's not clear to me that there would be, I actually think it'd be better financially.
Legendzxix's proposal just replaces qualifier rounds 3 and 4 with a last 16 round and keeps everything else the same. Ensuring home games for provincial champions would see the largest supported counties getting an extra home game every year. You'd also probably be getting more exciting match ups for supporters of the weaker counties. Larger chance of teams like Sligo, Clare or ourselves getting a tie against Dublin for example.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4217 - 19/06/2016 17:37:24
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Replying To GaryMc82: "I heard chat that Ulster GAA receive almost full profits from Clones, while if games are held in other grounds, they only receive partial payment.
Can't say there is any truth in this, but I heard Gael's in the past say that was the reason Clones was often favoured for games that could comfortably be accommodated in smaller County grounds." Well if that's the case it's an issue in itself. Maybe hq could change that but I doubt they will. But certainly from an atmosphere perspective the ulster semi finals would be better placed away from Clones when it's not Monaghan playing.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 19/06/2016 19:51:16
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Replying To SaffronDon: "Well if that's the case it's an issue in itself. Maybe hq could change that but I doubt they will. But certainly from an atmosphere perspective the ulster semi finals would be better placed away from Clones when it's not Monaghan playing." I'm not 100% sure on that now, I did hear that a year or two back, but It was clearly stated that Ulster GAA either owned or funded Clones development years ago, and could take maximum profits from big games held there. This could be incorrect, I'm by no means sure on whether this is the case or not.
Judging by Ulster Semi final crowds in recent years, Breffni, Healy Park, Celtic Park, Ballybofey, Athletic Grounds, Casement, Newry could probably suffice for Ulster SF's.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 19/06/2016 21:44:30
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Clones is VAT exempt from what I remember and the 6 counties obviously pay 20%, hence the clamour to move most games to clones
bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 20/06/2016 12:37:08
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Some have argued for an open draw of 32 after the provincial championships. That would work something as follows:
1. Provincial Preliminary Round
2. Provincial Quarter-finals
3. Provincial Semi-finals
4. Provincial Finals
5. All-Ireland open draw of 32
6. All-Ireland Round of 16
7. All-Ireland Quarter-finals
8. All-Ireland Semi-finals
9. All-Ireland Final
In my own humble opinion, possibly being in a minority of one, a Round of 16 of the 8 provincial finalists and 8 qualifier round 2 winners would work better:
1. Provincial Preliminary Round
2. Provincial Quarter-finals
3. Provincial Semi-finals & All-Ireland Qualifier Round 1
4. Provincial Finals & All-Ireland Qualifier Round 2
5. All-Ireland Round of 16
6. All-Ireland Quarter-finals
7. All-Ireland Semi-finals
8. All-Ireland Final
Qualifier rounds 1 and 2 as they are can be played in parallel to the provincial semi-finals and final. It would be a compromise between the current structure and the open draw of 32.
My suggestion as before is for provincial winners to be drawn at home against a qualifier and for provincial runners-up to be drawn against the remaining qualifiers with a separate draw to determine the home team.
An example based on last year is something as follows;
Provincial winners (A): Kerry & Dublin.
Provincial runners-up (A): Cork & Westmeath.
Round 2A Winners: Kildare, Longford, Roscommon & Fermanagh.
Provincial winners (B): Mayo & Monaghan.
Provincial runners-up (B): Sligo & Donegal.
Round 2B Winners: Derry, Tipperary, Tyrone & Galway.
Round of 16:
Kerry v Longford
Dublin v Fermanagh
Kildare v Cork
Westmeath v Roscommon
Mayo v Derry
Monaghan v Tipperary
Tyrone v Sligo
Donegal v Galway
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7840 - 02/07/2016 09:42:16
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Replying To legendzxix: "Some have argued for an open draw of 32 after the provincial championships. That would work something as follows:
1. Provincial Preliminary Round
2. Provincial Quarter-finals
3. Provincial Semi-finals
4. Provincial Finals
5. All-Ireland open draw of 32
6. All-Ireland Round of 16
7. All-Ireland Quarter-finals
8. All-Ireland Semi-finals
9. All-Ireland Final
In my own humble opinion, possibly being in a minority of one, a Round of 16 of the 8 provincial finalists and 8 qualifier round 2 winners would work better:
1. Provincial Preliminary Round
2. Provincial Quarter-finals
3. Provincial Semi-finals & All-Ireland Qualifier Round 1
4. Provincial Finals & All-Ireland Qualifier Round 2
5. All-Ireland Round of 16
6. All-Ireland Quarter-finals
7. All-Ireland Semi-finals
8. All-Ireland Final
Qualifier rounds 1 and 2 as they are can be played in parallel to the provincial semi-finals and final. It would be a compromise between the current structure and the open draw of 32.
My suggestion as before is for provincial winners to be drawn at home against a qualifier and for provincial runners-up to be drawn against the remaining qualifiers with a separate draw to determine the home team.
An example based on last year is something as follows;
Provincial winners (A): Kerry & Dublin.
Provincial runners-up (A): Cork & Westmeath.
Round 2A Winners: Kildare, Longford, Roscommon & Fermanagh.
Provincial winners (B): Mayo & Monaghan.
Provincial runners-up (B): Sligo & Donegal.
Round 2B Winners: Derry, Tipperary, Tyrone & Galway.
Round of 16:
Kerry v Longford
Dublin v Fermanagh
Kildare v Cork
Westmeath v Roscommon
Mayo v Derry
Monaghan v Tipperary
Tyrone v Sligo
Donegal v Galway" That'd be a much better season.
In addition to that championship structure.
Play league and championship in parallel.
Season starts March
AI final early August
You do those simple things and I think you sort out a lot of the current problems with inter county football.
For 2017
5th March NFL 1
12th March NFL2
19th March break
26th March NFL 3
2nd April NFL 4
9th April break
16th April Ulster Leinster preliminaries
23rd April Prov QF
30th April NFL 5
7th May Prov QF
14th May Prov QF
21st May NFL 6
28th May Prov SF, Qualifiers 1
4th June Prov SF, Qualifiers 1
11th June NFL 7
18th June Prov final, Qualifiers 2
25th June Prov final Qualifiers 2
2nd July AI last 16
9th July AI last 16/AI QF
16th July AI QF
23rd July AI SF
30th July AI SF
6th Aug Hurling final
13th Aug football final
More time for club football
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4217 - 02/07/2016 10:14:07
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The option of moving the All-Ireland finals forward to August was rejected at congress.
The hurling league was once played during the hurling championship but it didn't work out too well. Once the league started, there was zero interest in the league.
Some county leagues run well in parallel with their county championships. That's mainly where there is an acceptance of county players not being involved in league games played during summer months.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7840 - 02/07/2016 12:41:10
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For god sake Legendxix you've got me hooked again.
My ideal GAA season
Provides tiered championships without teams getting an easy draw to latter stages. Provides windows for club football. Can be run using the current GAA calendar
Division 3/ Junior grade
12 teams split into 2 groups of 6, teams play 5 games. League then moves into top half and bottom half, like the NHL used to be run, teams will play 3 more matches against the teams from their half that weren't in their section.
Top half play for promotion, bottom half play 3 more league games as championship prep. League placings are also used for seeding the championship.
A seeds teams 1-4 get a bye to Junior c'ship QF
B seeds teams 5-8 get a home 1st rd c'ship match vs one of the C seeds.
3 teams are promoted from Junior level, Junior champion plus next 2 best placed in the league.
Junior champion qualifies for intermediate championship QF.
Division 2/Intermediate grade
10 teams league every team plays every other team once.
3 teams relegated (bottom 3 teams who don't win the Intermediate championship)
Championship Top 4 teams plus Junior champion get a bye to QF
5th-10th in League play in intermediate championship round 1
Promotion Intermediate champion plus next 2 best placed in the league.
Intermediate champion qualifies for AI quarter-final.
Division 1 10 teams Every team plays each other once.
Relegation bottom 3 teams not to win the All Ireland
AI championship
Division 1 teams
intermediate champion
Provincial champions
There'll be a variable number of teams from 11 to 15 depending on how many Provincial champions aren't in division 1/intermediate champion.
Byes to QF are given to Intermediate champion plus then allocated in turn depending on league position. If there are 11 teams then top 4 from division 1 will get byes to the AI QF.
Sample schedule to follow:
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4217 - 02/07/2016 12:51:14
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