National Forum

Hurling All systems Go

(Oldest Posts First)

Just read another article of a player discussing the lack of space time to be found on the pitch in the modern game , equally I read yesterday I think it was Jackie Tyrell apologies if wrong saying the only sweeper hes ever used was in the kitchen ,
So my question is which is the approach in 5 -10 years we will see more of ???????????????
Kilkenny who although can hunt in packs are more than happy to go man to man which they are best at ?
Or Waterford/Clare type hurling were its high tempo suffocate the player in possession ,
For me I will be cheering if Dublin are eliminated any underdog regardless of system , however I love nothing better than watching Kilkenny go man for man may best team win.
Is hurling at a cross roads ?

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 17/06/2016 10:58:40    1868063

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Nope. Kilkenny will still win the All-Ireland, cats always hunt best in packs, I think rumours of their demise have been greatly exaggerated and I have said that every time they have a poor result.
I hope Waterford can win the AI but i think they are not significantly enough improved on last year to do so.
The best 15/20 hurlers will still win every match.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 17/06/2016 11:36:42    1868083

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Replying To Pinkie:  "Nope. Kilkenny will still win the All-Ireland, cats always hunt best in packs, I think rumours of their demise have been greatly exaggerated and I have said that every time they have a poor result.
I hope Waterford can win the AI but i think they are not significantly enough improved on last year to do so.
The best 15/20 hurlers will still win every match."
So Pinkie , if 15 best players always win ie Kilkenny , why bother with systems ? why not try replicate the most successful hurling team of all time ? or is it as I suspect of coaches hopping to occasionally catch them on the hop before they adapt ?

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 17/06/2016 12:27:03    1868116

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You are mistaken if you think Kilkenny always go 'man for man' or Kilkenny don't do tactics.Rubbish!
Kilkenny withdraw their midfielders and half forwards into their own half as the need arises.I'm no fan of the 'sweeper system' but Clare and Waterford are entitled to play that way if they feel its the best route to success.

Barnowl94 (Galway) - Posts: 3150 - 17/06/2016 12:51:31    1868131

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Replying To Barnowl94:  "You are mistaken if you think Kilkenny always go 'man for man' or Kilkenny don't do tactics.Rubbish!
Kilkenny withdraw their midfielders and half forwards into their own half as the need arises.I'm no fan of the 'sweeper system' but Clare and Waterford are entitled to play that way if they feel its the best route to success."
Clare Galway Waterford Dublin all are entitled to play anyway they like , nobody has said they are not.
Tracking your man and flight of the ball is a given in the modern day , but and Im open to correction Kilkenny have not to my naked eye pulled sweeper back , plus more times than not look to pressure opposition puck outs as opposed to sitting deep and allowing corner back easy possession.
This thread set up on back of players comments which are in marked contrast to each other, not set up as a love Kilkenny slate other county thread .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 17/06/2016 13:00:55    1868136

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Tipp and Galway don't use a sweeper system either Damo, not sure about Limerick I don't think they do.I believe Clare were the pioneers followed by Waterford, Cork and Dublin with varying degrees of success.
Kilkenny definitely crowded their half back line in the 2nd half of last years All Ireland and it worked.

Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 17/06/2016 13:21:01    1868149

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To me its needs must. Ie Dublin 2009-2011 under Daly. Sweeper. Why? Because we were not going to beat Kilkenny Galway Tipp etc man to man. He developed the players and by 2013 at worst went 3 midfield playing in front not behind the half backs.

Tipp and Kilkenny rarely go with sweepers, not never, because they know man to man they will beat anybody.

To me and its only my opinion, Clare and Waterford are doing there players and supporters a disservice by playing sweepers. They have some outstanding players and should allow those players express themselves and have faith that those players will win games without "systems" because they are better then the opposition.

Finally at intercounty theres pressure to deliver a manager will do what he thinks best like it or not but the worry for me is when you see, and you will see, juvenile managers around the country trying to get kids to play these systems and that may be where a long term detriment to the game develops

Brianmac78 (Dublin) - Posts: 1168 - 17/06/2016 13:23:43    1868153

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Kilkenny always crowd their half back line and break at speed, leaving loads of space inside for their forwards which favours the likes of TJ when they are 1-1 with a corner back. Get around him, go for the jugular, goal.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 17/06/2016 13:33:08    1868162

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Replying To Brianmac78:  "To me its needs must. Ie Dublin 2009-2011 under Daly. Sweeper. Why? Because we were not going to beat Kilkenny Galway Tipp etc man to man. He developed the players and by 2013 at worst went 3 midfield playing in front not behind the half backs.

Tipp and Kilkenny rarely go with sweepers, not never, because they know man to man they will beat anybody.

To me and its only my opinion, Clare and Waterford are doing there players and supporters a disservice by playing sweepers. They have some outstanding players and should allow those players express themselves and have faith that those players will win games without "systems" because they are better then the opposition.

Finally at intercounty theres pressure to deliver a manager will do what he thinks best like it or not but the worry for me is when you see, and you will see, juvenile managers around the country trying to get kids to play these systems and that may be where a long term detriment to the game develops"
Funnily I see the sweeper as crucial to Waterford's game yet detrimental to Clare's , now Clare won a Liam McCarty so that may seem a stupid comment but I honestly think they have players if given freedom could hurl most teams off the pitch , Waterrford on the otherhand although have tremendous individual talent like Austin Taidgh and co just look a savage unit.

Just hoping someone can clarify something to me , Kilkenny pack into the half backs ? is that because they are defending an area or because they are tracking their men ?

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 17/06/2016 13:51:24    1868177

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Im not sure about sweeper systems, but I definitely think that physicality and muscle building have become too important in the modern game.
its like theyre athletes first and hurlers second.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 18/06/2016 16:25:25    1868482

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