The 1st round of the Galway senior championship took place over the weekend. There were at least 5 penalties that I know of. All were missed. Does anyone know the stats on conversion rates since the new penalty rules were brought in last year. It certainly seems to me that the extra 5 yards out that the taker is in reality is far more significant than the 1:1 penalty. Also in underage games penalties are now hardly ever scored. Right now it definitely seems that the best thing for the defense to do is drag the forward down if there's a goal chance.

onlyhurling (Galway) - Posts: 800 - 25/04/2016 19:06:39    1849424

Stats at present certainly show that more penalties are being saved/missed than should be. As the Waterford keeper said recently (and I'm paraphrasing him here) if a penalty is well taken the goalie hasn't a prayer. The fact that all 5 penalties were missed in the Galway championship probably says more about the poor technique of the players taking them than it does about the difficulty of scoring them. I bet you in the coming championship if Kilkenny get a few penalties they won't miss any of them.

Granted I think for underage players it is probably a good deal more difficult and the scales are more evenly balanced between goalkeeper and penalty taker.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 25/04/2016 20:13:29    1849460

I think the new system of taking penalties is the fairest system and I agree with the poster above, lads need to work on their technique and a well struck shot should only have a 20% chance of being saved.

LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2479 - 26/04/2016 09:30:35    1849530

I seem to remember when it was introduced first the complaint was it would leave keepers with no chance of making a save, funny how things work out. I think players just need to adjust their approach, too many times I see players having to rush their strike so they hit it from outside the 21, I think they need to give themselves a little more room and concentrate on getting a proper shot away.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 26/04/2016 11:35:34    1849603

I seem to remember when it was introduced first the complaint was it would leave keepers with no chance of making a save, funny how things work out. I think players just need to adjust their approach, too many times I see players having to rush their strike so they hit it from outside the 21, I think they need to give themselves a little more room and concentrate on getting a proper shot away.

Soma (UK) - Posts:1391 - 26/04/2016 11:35:34

I was going to post exactly this.

Players aren't giving themselves enough space to strike before the 21. A lot of players are putting the ball down way too close to the 21 and therefore rushing their shot a little. It's actually quite amazing to see it.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 26/04/2016 11:53:20    1849615

Obviously it can't be a guaranteed goal but the conversion rate should be higher than it is.In the Galway/Tipp semi last year Canning and Callanan had penalties saved, I'ld say you would get some price on that happening .I believe we will see an improvement this summer.
Regardless I think the new system is preferable to the old one with the likes of Nash striking the ball from as close as 12 yards.

Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 27/04/2016 09:35:06    1849954

Ya but Callinans head was hanging off for his!

All joking aside though it clearly isn't working.

If more are scored in KK it's probably more down to the fact they haven't a decent keeper in the county ;D

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 27/04/2016 13:48:19    1850097

You can always take your point.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12118 - 27/04/2016 14:51:53    1850129

I actually had hoped this would turn into a serious thread. Obviously penalty takers needs to adjust their technique and it will be easier for the next few months while the ground is hard and you can bounce the ball but penalties are being missed left right and centre. It now makes perfect sense to just pull a forwad down. To me by far the most worrying thing is that up to U16 level they are virtually impossible to score so all teams are conceeding the penalty.

onlyhurling (Galway) - Posts: 800 - 27/04/2016 15:11:30    1850144

If his head was 'hanging off' Tiobraid it didn't stop him hitting a bullet shot at his namesake in the Galway goal who did well to tip it over the crossbar.

Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 27/04/2016 15:42:42    1850159

Those teams up to u16 were hardly converting them the old way either

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1908 - 27/04/2016 18:23:02    1850220

Did ye not see Bennett's penalty against Limerick the last day? Or Shane Dowling's 21? I'ld fancy the likes of Canning, Reid, Callinan, Tony kelly, Pat Horgan etc etc to score them 9 times out of 10.

Barnowl94 (Galway) - Posts: 3150 - 27/04/2016 21:51:04    1850295

Only hurling, what makes you think that the replies you've got have not been serious? I can understand your concern at underage level -- the penalty takers may not have the physical strength to hit a rasper from 21 yards and as well as that obviously they will lack maturity and may not cope well with the pressure of taking a penalty. Perhaps this is something that needs to be looked at and that penalties at underage should be taken a little closer to goal (say 18 yards out).

But I really don't see what your issue is at senior level. If an undue amount of penalties are being missed at senior level it is down to bad technique. Simple as. It's a new rule and perhaps some players have not practised it enough on the training ground yet. But I'm expecting a much higher conversion rate of penalties at senior intercounty level in the coming championship. Something like 8 out of 10 should be converted and I expect the figure will get up to something like that in the All Ireland championship. If a forward at intercounty level has a free shot on goal from 21 yards with only the goalie to beat, and consistently fails to score, I think he should think about becoming a defender instead.

Anyway. what's your solution to the problem that you perceive (which I don't think too many others perceive)? We can't go back to 3 men on the goal and fellas like Nash encroaching as far as 16 or less yards and hitting a bullet like shot from that range and endangering the lives of the defenders on the goal line.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 28/04/2016 11:59:13    1850378

PoolSturgeon
My issue is that cynical play is now rewarded in that pulling someone down in the box is rewarded. I agree the top players in the country will probably develop a technique to overcome it and convert most of their penalties but hurling is played at many levels. Changing the rule to prevent a new technique has made it much more difficult to score for all but the best ball strikers. In soccer and football, most penalties are scored at all levels hence there is a genuine 'penalty' for a professional fowl, this is no longer the case in hurling.
The solution is simple, the ball has to be risen before the 21 and struck before a mark 18 yards out (as all penalties were before Nash and TJ developed their new technique). This will go back to a system where most, but definietly not all penalties are scored without the safety concern.
Go to an underage game over the next few days and you will see why I am worried about this.

onlyhurling (Galway) - Posts: 800 - 28/04/2016 12:43:03    1850398

I'd be interested to hear any opinions from any keepers on this matter, less men on the line means less fellas to get in your way when defending a strike, always remember Eugene Cloonan saying he'd always have a crack at goal from a 21 yard free with so many lads on the goal line

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1908 - 28/04/2016 14:01:56    1850434

You need to tell the lads to practice it, I havent seen too many missed!! I suppose, some of these Galway lads dont like the pressure!

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 28/04/2016 18:40:07    1850542

Don't like the new rules .. The only change they should have made was stop players using big frying pan Goalkeeper Hurls to take penalties. It's no advantage to player having to strike the Ball from outside the 21m line using a normal Hurley ,, This means he has to place the Ball 26m out from the Goal and when you are standing out there those goal posts look small and far away and it's easier for the keeper standing on the goal line because the Ball is being struck from further out and the keeper has an extra split second to see the Ball coming in. It was hard enough years ago for lads having to try and beat 3 players standing on the goal line. The problem is with these big frying pan keeper Hurls some lads are able to step into the Ball and lift up in the air way out in front them and run in behind it and strike the Ball. you can't do that with a normal Hurl because the Bass is much smaller and you have to keep the Ball closer to you to strike it cleanly. They should have left the rules as they were and just stop keeper Hurls being used to take penalties.

regards
PJ

Wexiko (Wexford) - Posts: 81 - 28/04/2016 20:52:41    1850569

Only hurling, your proposal is a reasonable one for underage hurling. Wouldnt apply it to adult hurling though cos it could bring about a near 100% conversion rate, unless of course it went back to the old way of 3 men on the line. We are only going into the second year of this so it is far too early yet to consider making changes to it at adult level

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 28/04/2016 21:00:25    1850572

I remember seeing a penalty being caught by a player on the goal line in an U-16 game under the old rules so that has always been a problem. At the time the rule was brought in I felt it should have required the penalty taker to have 1 foot on or behind the 21 rather than having to strike the ball before it crosses the 21, I still think this would be a better solution. Still, what a pity that an unwritten rule of the game that was perfectly understood and respected by all players for decades has had to be changed by a small number of players taking advantage.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 29/04/2016 10:05:16    1850603

I'd be interested to hear any opinions from any keepers on this matter, less men on the line means less fellas to get in your way when defending a strike, always remember Eugene Cloonan saying he'd always have a crack at goal from a 21 yard free with so many lads on the goal line

Bon (Kildare) - Posts:180 - 28/04/2016 14:01:56

Although not a keeper I was one of the designated players to go on the line for penalties in all the teams I've played for.

There was definitely an element of too many cooks at time. You'd have a ball coming your side but it was always difficult to stop it if the keeper dived across you. Goals definitely went in that I felt I could stop if it weren't for the keeper's dive across my vision.

The best thing to do was to have the discipline that every man took his section of the goal and you let him deal with it. Some keepers I played with were better than others at that though!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 29/04/2016 10:54:08    1850624