Leinster Hurling Qualifier Group 2016
Carlow
Kerry
Offaly
Westmeath

Group winners advance to take on Galway in the Leinster quarter-finals.
Group runner-up advance to take on Laois in the Leinster quarter-finals.

Round 1 - Sunday, May 01, 2016
Kerry v Carlow
Westmeath v Offaly

Round 2 - Saturday, May 08, 2016
Kerry v Westmeath
Offaly v Carlow

Round 3 - Sunday, May 22, 2016
Carlow v Westmeath
Offaly v Kerry

Based on league performance, Offaly will be expected to win the group. It will be between the other 3 for 2nd place and avoiding 4th place automatic relegation to the Ring Cup.

Kerry will be favourites to finish 2nd after a decent league campaign. Westmeath lost to Kerry in last year's Division 2A final but still went on to finish in the top 2 of last year's Qualifier Group. Any of the 3 can beat each other on the day.

In my own humble opinion, the teams finishing 3rd and 4th in the group, along with the Christy Ring finalists, should be allowed enter the qualifiers. They could take on the 4 provincial quarter-final losers in round 1. The winners could then advance to take on the 4 provincial semi-final losers in round 2.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7820 - 10/04/2016 11:08:08    1843851

Did Kerry not end up in the same points as Offaly and beat them at home? I would say Kerry are the team should be expecting to come out of this.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 10/04/2016 11:30:06    1843858

It is possible that Kerry will end up in the Leinster Semi Final given they have had the better of Laois of Late and they may end up second in the round robin. If that were to happen then there would be genuine calls for Kerry in Munster where they belong.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 10/04/2016 11:39:05    1843859

Fair play to Kerry for developing the weaker code in their county. It puts the KK attitude to football into context for sure.

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 10/04/2016 12:00:51    1843866

The group winners play Galway and the group runners up play Laois? This is more of the crazy GAA logic that sees a team that finished a 5 game league with 4 points relegated while a team that fined on zero points stays up.
Where is the incentive to win the group?
With all due respect to Laois given a choice between Laois and Galway I know who I'ld want to be playing.
Daft.

Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 10/04/2016 12:29:15    1843869

medwaywash Did you not realise the problem with forming the new government is making Kilkenny play football

johnwhite12 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 306 - 10/04/2016 14:33:58    1843892

I'd say there's more chance of People Before Profit becoming the majority party in the Dail one day than you lot playing football John!

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 10/04/2016 15:32:29    1843906

There is an anomaly in the format that the group winners will have a tougher quarter-final! My own humble suggestion is that the following should be pre-determined before the draw:
The lowest seeded Leinster quarter-finalist based on the most recent league before the draw should be automatically assigned to take on the group winner.
The second lowest seeded Leinster quarter-finalist based on the most recent league before the draw should be automatically assigned to take on the group runner-up.

If this was applied to this year's championship, the quarter-final draw would have automatically worked out as follows:
Kilkenny bye to semi-final as reigning provincial champions.
Galway v Dublin
Group winner v Laois
Group runner-up v Wexford

Have an open draw then for the semi-finals.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7820 - 10/04/2016 16:02:52    1843921

Legendzxix, while I admire your passion, do you ever get sick of constantly starting thread after thread after thread about the format of the hurling competitions?

Also your seeding idea is kind of contradictory. You reckon the top team in the qualifier group should be rewarded with an easier match, but for some reason the top teams based on league seeding should be rewarded with a tougher match vs. each other?

On top of that, unless the dynamics of hurling change hugely (and they tend not to), that system would result in Dublin/Galway quarter finals 9 years out of 10, with Kilkenny winning Leinster in perpetuity, and Wexford coming nowhere near Galway or Dublin.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1642 - 10/04/2016 18:01:25    1843964

I don't think there should be a qualifier group. The Leinster championship which up to 1997 was just a straight knockout competition for Leinster teams (ie like the current under 21 championship) has three teams that are not from Leinster, has seeding, a back door and a league system - you couldn't, if you sat down and thought about it, design a worse 'knock-out' cup competition (though the Munster minor hurling championship gives it a run for its money). Either the 4 counties are good enough and deemed worthy to compete with the likes of Kilkenny/Galway et al or they are not. These 6 'championship' games will get little or media exposure, very few people attending and the reward will be most likely a hammering at the end of it.

Why are those four counties being given extra games against each other? is not just prolonging the inevitable...Kerry should go into Munster- get drwan against Clare, Cork etc and get their chances in the backdoor like everybody else. Then they will be treated like equals, then they are getting chances against the better sides and then and only then will they know where they stand.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 10/04/2016 18:28:34    1843971

@ CastleBravo.

There is a big reason for my seeding suggestion. If a qualifier county beats a seeded county, the seeded county drop into the qualifier group in the following year. For that reason I suggest that it is the two lowest seeded counties that put their seeded status on the line.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7820 - 10/04/2016 19:55:35    1844036

Assuming Kilkenny win Leinster just about every year, they'll be first seeds into the semi final. This leaves the next 2 teams to play in the QF. While there's maybe a very very slim chance of Wexford becoming the 3rd best team in Leinster based on the league, Offaly's or Laois' prospects of doing so are comical. This means that Dublin and Galway will be ranked 2nd and 3rd in Leinster. They will play each other in the Leinster quarter final every single year unless Kilkenny lose in Leinster. That's totally unacceptable as a format in my eyes.

As bennybunny said above, if you want to be respected as a top level team, you play the top level teams. The way you're suggesting all these cushions, safety nets, and deliberately easy draws really damages your case.

The provincial group this year could be funny though, as everyone will be aiming to come second and get a crack at Laois and possibly permanent SHC status.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1642 - 10/04/2016 20:27:41    1844056

I'm not suggesting a cushion. I just think it is bizarre that Galway have performed better than Wexford in recent leagues and championships and yet it is Galway who enter a quarter-final that could see them drop into the qualifier group.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7820 - 10/04/2016 20:44:55    1844067

If it came down to Offaly v Kerry to decide first and second, why would either team want to win it and face Galway?

Brianmac78 (Dublin) - Posts: 1168 - 10/04/2016 20:50:47    1844074

It is strange dat Laois play the runner up but that's the luck of the draw. kerry would get more out if this by winning the group and then playing Galway. Either way if Offaly decide to pull up and finish second, beat Laois then doesn't that mean they play Galway regardless going by the draw? So if everything should pan out as planned Offaly are playing Galway in a QF or a SF. Kerry could end up playing Tipp or Cork in the AI qualifiers that again should let them know where they stand. Westmeath and Carlow are up against it but I think Carlow have gone a wee bit backwards and might b in danger of dropping to CR. Then again they have been in this format before and nothing is for certain but Kerry do have a huge advantage playing both in Tralee in games one and two.

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 10/04/2016 21:31:30    1844099

Well, at the very least when the draw was made, when Laois and Galway were drawn against qualifier group teams, they should put in place a mechanism that the higher seed of the 2 will take on the group runners-up.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7820 - 10/04/2016 21:47:55    1844108

Fair play to Kerry for developing the weaker code in their county. It puts the KK attitude to football into context for sure.

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts:727 - 10/04/2016 12:00:51 1843866

The attitude of every county at Ring, Rackard, Meagher level is a more pressing concern I would of thought than the sole county not bothered with football.

RoyalBadger (Meath) - Posts: 571 - 11/04/2016 09:01:13    1844136

The attitude of every county at Ring, Rackard, Meagher level is a more pressing concern I would of thought than the sole county not bothered with football.
RoyalBadger (Meath)


I'm not saying it isn't a concern, I made the point because when you look historically at the dominance of Kerry in football and KK in hurling, it's a pretty obvious parallel.

As for the almost nationwide problems with hurling, FFS where do we even start??

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 11/04/2016 09:57:48    1844157

Is there anything to be said for playing the provincial qualifier series before the Christy Ring cup, and having the top 2 teams go onto play in the Provincial/AI series, and the bottom 2 compete in the Christy Ring?
It might mean playing the Christy Ring a little later in the summer, but that might be a good thing. It would give the 4 teams in the group a shot at competing in the AI series, but wouldn't mean the bottom 2's summer would be over by May 22nd. And it would strengthen the Christy Ring. Would that work?

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 11/04/2016 16:30:52    1844370

Fair point Marlon JD. Or as has been mentioned before put them all into the Christy Ring and all the winners of that in at the quarter final stage. They will probably get hammered however for years Galway and Antrim were allowed in at the semi final stage different dynamic back then albeit.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 11/04/2016 21:36:23    1844475