I just read Carr's article there about the above and how the Dubs will clean up if money is divided equally between all.

I can't understand how anyone can call for this to happen.

My main argument against this is that if the Dubs raise this money themselves then why should there share it with other counties.

I think it's a silly argument to suggest they should.

Other counties with the resources need to start catching up on the field. Carr points to the likes Leitrim for his example. Leitrim even before the Dubs put these structures in place were never anywhere near the level of the Dubs.

The Dubs generate and raise this money themselves so they can spend it how they wish. Unless we want the GAA to become a communist organisation.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 22/12/2015 09:48:28    1813844

If it was divided up then would the likes of AIG be paying the same amount, doubt it.

Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 22/12/2015 10:30:13    1813846

For the same reason that the NFL and AFL rotate picks in the draft of new players every year - to balance up the competition. It is all well and good saying Dublin raised the money, but where does that leave the all Ireland series? We need to realise that the gaa is going backwards without a competitive top tier competition, and that without it, Dublin, Mayo, and everyone else, don't matter.

Also, I disagree with this thing where people say 'Dublin raised more money'. The people of Dublin are not giving any more than the people of Leitrim or wherever else. Individual gaa people are giving the same. Dublin are collecting more because they have 10 times the average population, not because they are giving more than the next guy. Therefore, I think it is a very reasonable suggestion that there be a fair and well thought out spending cap on teams in competition with each other, with those teams who are struggling to make anywhere near it being helped out. We cant award teams a draft, so we have to think of another way of doing it. And no that isn't communism, it is evening out the playing field in a sporting context.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 22/12/2015 10:32:05    1813847

Daytona, the most popular sport each year by viewership worldwide is the NFL superbowl. The NFL is based upon socialist not communist ideals and this means a time like the green bay packers can become successful, they have neither the crowds, sponsorship, stadia or merchandise sales but because there is a draft and because monies are divided equitably they can compete. The Dallas Cowboys traditionally one of the best supported teams sells copious amounts of merchandise and in effect each shirt sold subsidizes a team like Green Bay but it yields an exciting and unpredictable championship.

Dublin GAA raise money for the GAA, as we are an amateur organisation and there is a centralized structure we have a mechanism to distribute any monies but not the will to do so as it suits the traditionalists to keep the traditional teams winning maybe if we wanted more competitive games some radical thinking needs to be adopted.

Dublin have great structures in place and a huge population but that doesn't guarantee success and other teams can compete if the will to do so is there. The issue will be that dublin have a behemoth to sustain and whilst they are riding the crest of a wave currently what happens when there are a few barren years and the production line dries up. Nothing lasts forever and I find it strange people predict doom and gloom if Dublin dominate, when we have had a Kilkenny monopoly in the hurling for 15 + years practically, and some of the games over the last few years have been superb, BTW I mean quality not quantity that still remains an issue and we'd all like to see even more competitive games.

Hunger will be an issue and we had this before last year predictions of domination, invincibility and all the rest, and funnily enough Donegal turned them over, if the will is there it can be done they are at the top of the tree and there to be shot at and I'm sure the likes of Kerry, Mayo, Donegal and Tyrone wont be looking at them as unbeatable and will relish trying to knock them off the perch.

duckula20 (Antrim) - Posts: 175 - 22/12/2015 10:32:51    1813848

Not saying he is right but even Soccer's Premier League have realised that the biggest fish getting the most money is non-competitive.

A fairer system would help, but if a county goes to the bother of raising money to raise their standards, I can't see why that would be taken off them - thinking of Kerry in particular here, whose USA tours are bringing in cash.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 22/12/2015 10:32:53    1813849

With regards to money raised by an individual County I am kinda split on this. Part of me says that the effort a County puts in to getting their own resources should mean that's their own money and nobodys business but the other part of me is aware that some Counties have a far greater pool of businesses, resources etc they can tap in to compared to other Counties - those smaller and more rural.

But with regards to money distributed by the GAA then I think Carr is bang on the money. When you look at the accounts for 2014 the GAA gave out £39.5m as Operating payments to Clubs, Counties and Provinces. When you take away the money which was given to Croke Park, Overseas the 4 Provinces and Britain you are left with approx 18.8m which went to the Counties. When you look at the where the money went £2.1m went to Dublin which was almost twice the amount the next County received and just over 11% of the money distributed to the 36 'Counties'. That's wrong in my opinion.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 22/12/2015 10:54:44    1813852

You're right Daytona11 of course and it has never been a level playing field in terms of finances or resources. The Kerry's and Kilkennys along with Tyrone and Donegal and Mayos of this world have generated big income in terms if investment and have reaped rewards so it's never going to be everyone getting the same funding.
Money helps undoubtedly as above counties are testemount to but you also need the work and personell and a lot of counties could undoubtedly be doing a lot more if the truth be known to raise funding themselves.

SLLY (Dublin) - Posts: 463 - 22/12/2015 11:02:28    1813854

I would like to see a closer more level playing field , but throw your keys in and we all get an equal shot at the wife next door method is not for me .
One thing he did say that's true was when he spoke about talent , Dublin beaten by Kildare last year in minor football beaten by Kilkenny in hurling easily forgotten , the talent I'm talking about every dog on the street in Dublin knew there was a group coming through that were special in both codes and they are delivering but what has come behind ? Fenton mainly
Truth is when analysing Dublin its easy to point to euro signs and forget to mention talent ,
Its a start bringing Dublin out of HQ even if it is to NP , more needs to be done, if funding is cut to Dublin and distributed I can live with that as we have ability o source funding ourselves , but equally lazy county boards should not be encouraged to sit on their ***** expecting everything to just fall into their lap , Dublin county board works hard sure its a good product to sell but can all county boards put their hands up and say they are being imaginative and resourceful I doubt it ,
PS The use of Leitrim as a gauge against Dublin is when I stopped taking Tommy seriously .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 22/12/2015 11:04:05    1813855

I agree to an extent daytona11, but the dubs have the capital city and all it's resources etc to fundraise, many rural counties simply do not have the opportnities to do this and are sponsored by small to medium local businesses, though in saying that it's not the dubs fault!

Tom1916 (Armagh) - Posts: 2001 - 22/12/2015 11:11:34    1813857

I agree to an extent daytona11, but the dubs have the capital city and all it's resources etc to fundraise, many rural counties simply do not have the opportnities to do this and are sponsored by small to medium local businesses, though in saying that it's not the dubs fault!

Tom1916 (Armagh) - Posts:1837 - 22/12/2015 11:11:34 181

I think the dubs playing in Croke park for league and early rounds of championship is doing a lot of damage to smaller counties in terms of their profile, fundraising and money staying locally. This isn't a shot at the dubs as it's mainly a leinster council decision.
How is the likes of Offaly or Longford meant to generate local interest and therefore sponsorship when their supporters are expected to travel to Dublin? When they finally take Dublin down the country, Kilkenny get all the buzz associated with the AI champs coming to town.
What good is that to local Laois business who might throw the county board a few pound towards advertising etc?
The GAA needs to help counties raise their profile and you do that by keeping it local.

Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 22/12/2015 11:28:41    1813860

SLLY and damothedub. you say that other county boards need to basically work harder. How exactly? Leitrim and Longford have a smaller population than some clubs in Dublin ffs. That is like saying Ireland need to work harder to match Germany's outputs, and that all that needs to happen is just for us to pull up our socks and we will be the same as them. Will ye get lost with that disingenuous bs. You know that isn't the case.

What needs to happen is that people stop viewing it as Dublin gaa or Mayo gaa etc. View it as the gaa. All collections should be for the GAA in general, and forget about this parochial, my county rubbish that is only aiding to stagnate the game. What we have now is indicative of people who don't actually care about the gaa, they just want their team to win. If that is the thinking then the gaa is going to go backwards.

As for AIG sponsoring Dublin - of course they would. Do you think they care where the money goes? All they want is their name on the jersey. The sponsorship of all counties could be auctioned off, and once the costs are covered for that county, the excess could be redirected.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 22/12/2015 11:50:17    1813861

Regarding the NFL lads,

Are people seriously suggesting we have a "draft". I see a lot of posts disagreeing with my original post but no real fair solutions.

So let Kerry and Dublin off to generate money but then make them split it by 34? In Kildare we have a huge population and I'd consider us having the finances needed to challenge, however unlike Kerry,Dubs,KK or Mayo we have spent it unwisely.

The like of the McGeeney years spring to mind. We have club Kildare who raised tens of thousands and it was barely split fairly within the county (the hurlers are treated like muck) and yet there is a suggestion that other counties should benefit from what a supporters club raise for their own counties? That's laughable.

AIG,Kerry Group, Elverys and Glanbia are huge corporations. If they weren;t seeing a return for sponsoring the like of Dublin etc they wouldn;t be doing it. It makes commercial sense. The minute you say to them, we are going to split that 5 million 34 ways they would pull out. As long as the big teams are successful they will get the big endorsements.

Is it fair? Maybe, maybe not. But it's business and that's what the GAA is.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 22/12/2015 11:57:25    1813864

Population is irrelevant at the end of the day. It 15 players on pitch. No excuses for no county not having 15 players. If that was the case Antrim would be winning Ulster Cork Munster and Galway Connacht. While the Dubs have plenty money, take out key players they are are an ordinary team. The Mayo, Kerry, Tyrone and Donegal have plenty of money. One county have 3 ex inter county managers as selectors with no expense spared. How do London, Leitrim and Sligo cope with that?

WilliePower12 (Australia) - Posts: 25 - 22/12/2015 12:11:42    1813867

TheMaster,

The problem of unequal funding exists in all sports. But forget Dublin, Mayo have bigger resources than Leitrim, and are in the same provincial championship. Do you think Mayo should pool their resources with Leitrim?

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 22/12/2015 12:17:39    1813871

TheMaster,

The problem of unequal funding exists in all sports. But forget Dublin, Mayo have bigger resources than Leitrim, and are in the same provincial championship. Do you think Mayo should pool their resources with Leitrim?

JayP (Dublin) - Posts:1275 - 22/12/2015 12:17:39 181

To be fair Mayo are competing against huge populations like London who have population of 8.6 million

WilliePower12 (Australia) - Posts: 25 - 22/12/2015 12:32:22    1813873

If a person earns a high enough wage then why should they be taxed at a higher amount to help subsidise those on lower wages or those who are out of work?

They go out and earn more money. Why should they have to pay more tax and effectively share more of their earnings with others?

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 22/12/2015 12:32:34    1813874

What we have now is indicative of people who don't actually care about the gaa, they just want their team to win.
Of course it's about wanting your team to win that's the very nature of competitiveness and sport and that will never change.Do you actually think people are going to try as hard to raise funding and indeed those who donate to their counties funds are going to be as generous and as committed if they know their money is going to another county that are trying to compete with them.
Maybe in a perfect world we will all have the same money, the same population , the same tradition and personnel and then everyone will win the same amount or maybe that just won't happen like it never did in any sport.

SLLY (Dublin) - Posts: 463 - 22/12/2015 12:58:26    1813880

Dublin GAA already contributes millions into the central pot that is already shared amongst everyone

We are perfectly entitled to attract our own sponsorship and revenue streams and spend that on games development within Dublin

Kerry spent close to 1 million Euro on ONE team in 2015 and still made an excellent profit

ALL bloody credit to them... they raised their own money and spent it on their players and setup

No one raised an eyebrow.. I for one congratulated them!

Their achievement this year should be applauded but in the current system - you also have to compete against it

If Kerry can spend a million Euro on one team - then why cant Dublin... why cant Cork, Tyrone, Mayo....

Dublin GAA already generates many millions - through various revenue generating streams

It's the biggest brand seen in GAA which attracts sponsorship into the GAA - Huge revenue generated through TV Rights - which are front loaded with Dublin games

Again.. it's only about what Dublin gets... never about what it generates, which is then distributed back into the grass roots

We already do more than enough... which is ignorantly or rather conveniently forgotten about... to suit a certain hear say narrative

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 22/12/2015 13:02:22    1813881

Daytona these corporations probably don't care how the money is spent they pay to get their name on a shirt or on a stadium in the larger population centres, you said yourself kildare frittered money away if the donors had any say then that wouldn't have happened, so I doubt that AIG or Kerry group have any say on how Gavin or Fitzmaurice go about their business. For these corporations it is probably peanuts to tap into the Irish market and significantly lower in cost than sponsorship in other sports, you never know its probably cheaper than hiring hoarding or TV ads in these large population centres.

You are right the draft isn't workable without an element of professionalism the point being made was that some sports find other means of attempting to level the playing field, you could handicap teams by reducing squad sizes or having some kind of a salary / spend cap meaning the arms race currently going on for team prep doesn't continue or one approach you could take which would radically alter things is completely rip up the 32 county borders and manufacture a number of teams with ostensibly equal population and equal funding and see what comes of that. Seeing as we can't agree on how to make the provincial championships more relevant the chances of restructuring in that fashion would fall somewhere between Bob and No hope just after hell freezes over, but you asked for alternatives.

duckula20 (Antrim) - Posts: 175 - 22/12/2015 13:06:11    1813882

Dublin are generating so much money by themselves they don't really need the GAA to help fund their activities to any great extent, the same applies to other big counties like Kerry for example.

The answer from Jim Bob Dub is above is exactly what is wrong and selfishness is not what the GAA should be about.

We generated the money yet we should keep when Dublin money is clearly generated because they have a larger supporter base because of the location of the county and is no achievement it's just down to pure luck of having a big population to work with.

American sports owners have enough foresight to see the bigger picture and see that the sharing of resources and capping of expenditure is necessary to ensure a healthy competition which in turn benefits all the teams and thus benefits the sport as a whole.We need to have this view in the GAA also.

There needs to be a degree of revenue sharing and for counties to see the bigger picture and realise it's not all about their own county dominating and that a spreading out of resources and thus more chance of smaller counties to bridge the gap to the top tier counties is good for the GAA as a whole which is what we should all care about.I would happily accept Offaly not doing well if it meant the GAA as a whole was thriving.The game is bigger than any individual counties concerns.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 22/12/2015 13:21:01    1813888