Phillip Jordan on discipline....

Just read Jordan's comments of discipline, whilst I agree the system is a shambles, he was selective in his assessment.

He reckoned Kevin Keane should have accepted his ban.

Phillip McMahanon should have accepted his ban for a clear headbutt.

Diarmuid Connolly should have accepted his ban for striking.

Tiernan McCann should get off as the rule in place is a yellow card.

Ok here goes....

Jordan's comments are over simplistic!

Let's look at each each individually. Murphy had Keane by the scruff of the neck pushing his fist into his neck and chin, Murphy wasn't innocent. Verdict: Murphy yellow/Keane red - no appeal allowed.

Philly McMahon stood up to Aidin O'Shea and on RTE it looked like a headbutt. However the reverse footage show O'Shea pulling McMahon forward by the shirt in an attempt to get him sent off. Verdict: Nothing happened, correct both players stayed on the pitch. If people want to cut out playacting, O'Shea should get a retrospective one game ban for bringing the game into disrepute.

Connolly..... Lee Keegan drags Connolly to ground and has him in a chokehold on the ground. While both players are on the ground, Cillian O'Connor runs in and thumps Connolly on the ground, then gestures Connolly has punched Keegan. Connolly has punched Keegan in an attempt to get released. Verdict: If the official seen Connolly punch, he also seen O'Connor punch. Both players should receive red. Keegan may get away with it on the day as the official probably didn't see the initial coming together. Retrospectively; Connolly red rescinded and should receive no ban. Keegan gets one game, dangerous play, a choke is as bad as a punch. O'Connor one game ban (could argue for 2 as he's trying to cheat the officials- succeeded)

Tiernan McCann ..... Player who tossed his hair should get rescinded. McCann one game ban for bringing the game into disrepute.

I understand a load of keyboard warriors are gonna go ape at my verdicts there, but they are honest and fair. Before someone mentions the final and Phillip McMahon, he got a one game retrospective ban. Fair enough, if he was caught on he day, a red and a one game ban.

I think the appeals process is silly. The Connolly incident was weird as so much went on, and a guy in the situation he was in has to defend himself. The rest are straightforward.

If people wanna cut out playacting and blatant cheating, retrospective bans have to be introduced. There just seems to be a trial by county approach from fans. If you don't like a certain county, their players deserve bans.

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 03/11/2015 19:25:27    1804199

Connolly is entitled to defend himself in a choke hold, even biting is allowed in self=defence. Philly did nothing wrong where they got the head butt from? maybe the same place as a one match ban for moving his fingers in a threatening manner.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 03/11/2015 19:44:22    1804210

Philip Jordan writing that gaelic football is a physical, hard and manly game is very amusing. I reckon Diarmuid Marsden might have a view on the 'hard and manly' display Jordan gave in the 2003 All-Ireland final.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 03/11/2015 20:48:50    1804237

Ah here, ye are worse that fianna fail with this tow the party line garbage, will you give that choke hold rubbish a rest. He had him in a fairly poorly executed headlock. Nothing in it, cooper had mcloughlin in the exact same one and it was no big deal. Yellow card and get on with it.
Also, sorry, but there is no rule in the gaa that stipulates you can defend yourself when in a 'choke hold', or a headlock either for that matter. There is no rule that justifies striking in the gaa in any way, there is a rule on striking however. Also, surely if you are being choked, the automatic defence is to stop the guy choking you, not trying to have a fight with him mid-choke. Stop insulting people's intelligence with that nonsense.

Jordan is right, the three of them should have been banned, had had their bans upheld and any frivilous appeal should have seen them extended an extra game.
However, I believe what mccann did deserves to be revisited in the rules. He did bring the game into disrepute with such deeply unsporting behaviour, and it should be possible to upgrade the punishment to a red in such a situation.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 03/11/2015 21:31:22    1804251

I don't understand how certain things like Murphys actions or Keegans are deemed ok in the GAA. Both these players, by the legal definition, assaulted Keane and Connolly. They both should have received red cards. I also hate how in sport that you are subject to the same rules for retaliation as you are for being the initiator - there should be some kind of mitigation whereby the punishment does not be as severe if a player retaliates after initially being punched or wrestled etc. The Seamus O'Se and Cooper incident is another example. Cooper should have received the more sever punishment in this case, not O'Se.

geoff (Tyrone) - Posts: 377 - 04/11/2015 08:18:41    1804263

I also hate how in sport that you are subject to the same rules for retaliation as you are for being the initiator

Spot on, that rule always made me angry. So if someone whacks you and you whack them back you are both as bad as each other.

I'd also like to see a rule brought in stopping players from using phrases like 'we're going to war'. With so much conflict and violence in the world those comments are not helpful.......

(obviously bringing in such a rule would be impossible, but can't wait to see the reactions of Dublin fans defending 'Philly' :-) )

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 04/11/2015 08:29:35    1804266

slayer
County: Limerick
Posts: 5746

Spot on, that rule always made me angry. So if someone whacks you and you whack them back you are both as bad as each other.

I'd also like to see a rule brought in stopping players from using phrases like 'we're going to war'. With so much conflict and violence in the world those comments are not helpful.......

(obviously bringing in such a rule would be impossible, but can't wait to see the reactions of Dublin fans defending 'Philly' :-) )

In fairness now, I wouldn't be too hard on using of that phrase/phrases. Some people actually need to see it as a battle to get themselves through the 60 mins and you know, people have always accused the Dubs of being a bit soft when it's put to them - it's probably something he's been hearing at training/between the panel about how they won't be physically overrun or working with a sports psychologist and they've told him to think of it as that to trigger flight/fight, I'm no expert but wouldn't beat Philly McMahon over that at all.

GetOverTheBar (Tyrone) - Posts: 1388 - 04/11/2015 13:35:18    1804366

geoff
County: Tyrone
Posts: 366

1804263
I don't understand how certain things like Murphys actions or Keegans are deemed ok in the GAA. Both these players, by the legal definition, assaulted Keane and Connolly. They both should have received red cards. I also hate how in sport that you are subject to the same rules for retaliation as you are for being the initiator - there should be some kind of mitigation whereby the punishment does not be as severe if a player retaliates after initially being punched or wrestled etc. The Seamus O'Se and Cooper incident is another example. Cooper should have received the more sever punishment in this case, not O'Se.

Excellent post and gets to the root of a lot of the discipline issues in football imo.

Stamp out the provocation and a lot of the discipline issues plaguing football will disappear.

If a player knows they'll be suspended for randomly pulling a player to the ground off the ball and not letting them get up and participate in the game then they won't do it. There'll be no retaliation obviously and we'll have a better game.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 04/11/2015 14:52:37    1804402

Is it ok to ask Philip Jordan about his own' manliness' in 03 when he hit the ground holding his face and getting Diarmuid Marsden sent off in the process, when he was barely touched?
It's hardly fair play and 'manly' in my eyes.

rockwall1 (UK) - Posts: 31 - 04/11/2015 19:52:53    1804504

Posters seem to be in general agreement that players/managers should accept the punishments handed down to them for indescretions on the field If they are guilty. That is the nub of the problem, as a number of posters here demonstrate week in week out. Many refuse to accept that their own player (s) are ever at fault irrespective of how much video evidence there is to the contrary. As for retaliation, it is not always clear that there was anything wrong in the actions of the alleged perpetrator. Striking or attempted striking cannot be acceptable under any circumstances.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 04/11/2015 21:20:29    1804526

neverright, spot on. Look at the opening post of this thread for a perfect example of a guy who cant see his own player doing any wrong, despite them being blatantly wrong in all examples. Everyone else is to blame for one guy headbutting and another throwing a punch. None of them even get a ban in his fantasy world, yet kevin keane does for some reason, despite him being in the same boat as Connolly. I have to admit, Id laugh in someone's face if they offered me that explanation.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 05/11/2015 12:41:52    1804618

neverright, spot on. Look at the opening post of this thread for a perfect example of a guy who cant see his own player doing any wrong, despite them being blatantly wrong in all examples. Everyone else is to blame for one guy headbutting and another throwing a punch. None of them even get a ban in his fantasy world, yet kevin keane does for some reason, despite him being in the same boat as Connolly. I have to admit, Id laugh in someone's face if they offered me that explanation.

TheMaster (Mayo) - 05/11/2015 12:41:52

I doubt that , I'd suspect you're more like to run off and sh**e your shorts or throw your keyboard at them.

SLLY (Dublin) - Posts: 463 - 05/11/2015 13:03:59    1804633

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 14350

1804618
neverright, spot on. Look at the opening post of this thread for a perfect example of a guy who cant see his own player doing any wrong, despite them being blatantly wrong in all examples. Everyone else is to blame for one guy headbutting and another throwing a punch. None of them even get a ban in his fantasy world, yet kevin keane does for some reason, despite him being in the same boat as Connolly. I have to admit, Id laugh in someone's face if they offered me that explanation.

Kevin Keane got no ban.

Him and Connolly in the same boat. Both should have been banned, no question.

The provocation needs to be looked at. Both Murphy and Keegan's provocation should not have to be tolerated either. You could argue that Murphy's wasn't too bad but it's the general theme of provoking a reaction that it illustrates that is the issue for me.

All counties do it and it is something that if punished would sort out a lot of discipline issues fairly quickly imo.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 05/11/2015 13:11:31    1804636

Phillip McMahon never headbutted anybody. FACT

Connolly was sent off. O'Connor and Keegan were not.

Read the original post TheMaster.

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 05/11/2015 19:42:28    1804798

Murphys provocation was bad, he pushed his fist/hand into keane's neck/face.

geoff (Tyrone) - Posts: 377 - 06/11/2015 11:45:12    1804908