Irish professional sports people obtain a tax refund on their earnings if they have been based in Ireland over a prolonged period of time. This is the main reason the IRFU are able to keep their best players in Ireland.

The GPA in their wisdom have secured a paltry grant for each county player which isn't deemed pay for play. Weaker counties struggle to keep players playing for a sustained period of time due to lack of success and laughable match scheduling over the summer.

Surely it would be more beneficial for the GPA to get the government to provide tax breaks for intercounty players. Providing a tax refund or tax break for players who have player Senior intercounty for a minimum of 10 years would encourage players to stick at it. This would also encourage the transfer of players from stronger counties to weaker ones (particularly in hurling).

Its not pay for play but its a recognition of what GAA players contribute to Irish sporting life.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 29/10/2015 11:23:37    1802782

29/10/2015 11:23:37 tirawleybaron
Irish professional sports people obtain a tax refund on their earnings if they have been based in Ireland over a prolonged period of time. This is the main reason the IRFU are able to keep their best players in Ireland.
The GPA in their wisdom have secured a paltry grant for each county player which isn't deemed pay for play. Weaker counties struggle to keep players playing for a sustained period of time due to lack of success and laughable match scheduling over the summer.
Surely it would be more beneficial for the GPA to get the government to provide tax breaks for intercounty players. Providing a tax refund or tax break for players who have player Senior intercounty for a minimum of 10 years would encourage players to stick at it. This would also encourage the transfer of players from stronger counties to weaker ones (particularly in hurling).
Its not pay for play but its a recognition of what GAA players contribute to Irish sporting life. The rugby players get this tax break to keep them in the country. There isn't an alternative for the GAA players. The government wouldn't ever put this in place.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 29/10/2015 11:46:45    1802788

I don't think the rugby players should be getting a tax break in the first place, and so neither should the GAA players.

The tax fund is working against Irish rugby anyway because Pro12 is a B League and not up to the levels required to get players ready to compete against SH teams, so Irish players would be better off going to England or France, or to the South to more competitive environments.

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 29/10/2015 13:41:10    1802840

Why wouldn't the government give tax breaks to GAA players Ormond ? Before other professional sportsmen and sportswomen got tax breaks to encourage them to stay in Ireland many thought that that wouldn't happen either. That's a very good plan Tirawley. Rather than think of why it shoulldn't or couldn't happen we should think of the benefits of this and how it could happen. Even though the good times are back it might encourage players to stay at home. They hear their bodies have more favourable working conditions and much better money abroad when they left college and a few more quid in their pockets could be enough to keep them here playing hurling and/or football.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 29/10/2015 13:50:48    1802847

What about the GAA looking for equality within thier own organisation first?
Hurling v Football in counties? Club v County player? Most blatant of all ladies football/camogie v men's football and hurling?

gormdubhgorm (Dublin) - Posts: 990 - 29/10/2015 13:51:21    1802848

29/10/2015 13:41:10 witnof
I don't think the rugby players should be getting a tax break in the first place, and so neither should the GAA players.
The tax fund is working against Irish rugby anyway because Pro12 is a B League and not up to the levels required to get players ready to compete against SH teams, so Irish players would be better off going to England or France, or to the South to more competitive environments.The pro12 isn't a B league though. In no way is it such.
Why should the rugby players not be getting the tax break anyway and how is it working against Irish rugby
I think the likes of Jonny Sexton going to France and immediately coming back show the issues with going to France and how would going to England be better?
Players wont go to the Southern hemisphere as the Southern Hemisphere sides limit players joining their sides even more than the irish do...
29/10/2015 13:50:48 GreenandRed
Why wouldn't the government give tax breaks to GAA players Ormond? Before other professional sportsmen and sportswomen got tax breaks to encourage them to stay in Ireland many thought that that wouldn't happen either. That's a very good plan Tirawley. Rather than think of why it shoulldn't or couldn't happen we should think of the benefits of this and how it could happen. Even though the good times are back it might encourage players to stay at home. They hear their bodies have more favourable working conditions and much better money abroad when they left college and a few more quid in their pockets could be enough to keep them here playing hurling and/or football. GAA players are amateur. They can be added/dropped/changed in/out of squads so quickly and its so different to waged/contracted professional players. Rugby players get the tax break to help keep them playing in Ireland. That isn't really an issue for gaelic players bar a tiny tiny minority who may go to play in Australia.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 29/10/2015 14:39:43    1802878

I understand the logic behind the original post, if tax breaks help keep the best rugby players playing in the country, they can help keep the best GAA players playing at all (an incentive to keep them playing the sport at all, rather than playing it elsewhere).

But I still have a hard time with the idea of tax breaks for playing sports, of any kind. While I do think amateur sports people, whether its GAA, Athletics, or other, could probably use such breaks more than professional players, I still think there are more worthy candidates ahead in the line. Low wage workers, carers, people who do the work that needs to be done, but that no-one wants to do (and get paid peanuts), should probably get any break that's going. At a time when the UN are about to censure us because of the rising levels of child poverty in the country, and when we have a homelessness crisis, giving tax breaks to sports people, especially professional ones, seems wrong.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 29/10/2015 16:33:50    1802931

The biggest problem with pay for play and Mayo is they need to play before they can get pay !!

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 29/10/2015 18:30:53    1802966

29/10/2015 16:33:50
Marlon_JD
I understand the logic behind the original post, if tax breaks help keep the best rugby players playing in the country, they can help keep the best GAA players playing at all (an incentive to keep them playing the sport at all, rather than playing it elsewhere).
But I still have a hard time with the idea of tax breaks for playing sports, of any kind. While I do think amateur sports people, whether its GAA, Athletics, or other, could probably use such breaks more than professional players, I still think there are more worthy candidates ahead in the line. Low wage workers, carers, people who do the work that needs to be done, but that no-one wants to do (and get paid peanuts), should probably get any break that's going. At a time when the UN are about to censure us because of the rising levels of child poverty in the country, and when we have a homelessness crisis, giving tax breaks to sports people, especially professional ones, seems wrong. It isn't wrong at all. The tax break has helped keep plenty of rugby players in Ireland and the tax break for the top guys is worth maybe 40'000-50000 at end of their career. The GAA players are not paid for playing. Irrespective of keeping GAA players playing they are amateur. They are playing a pastime (I know I will be slated for this but they are). The pro players get this money at the end of their rugby career to help them as they start a new job/career/profession in their 30s which GAA players don't have to worry about.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 29/10/2015 18:32:06    1802968

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
It isn't wrong at all. The tax break has helped keep plenty of rugby players in Ireland and the tax break for the top guys is worth maybe 40'000-50000 at end of their career. The GAA players are not paid for playing. Irrespective of keeping GAA players playing they are amateur. They are playing a pastime (I know I will be slated for this but they are). The pro players get this money at the end of their rugby career to help them as they start a new job/career/profession in their 30s which GAA players don't have to worry about.

I think you missed my point, I wasn't saying it was necessarily wrong that Rugby players get a tax break while GAA players don't (although I'm not sure that's right), I said I thought it was wrong to give anyone tax breaks for playing sport (Rugby, GAA, or anything), when there are more worthy recipients for such tax breaks, and people that need that help more.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 29/10/2015 19:50:38    1802984

29/10/2015 19:50:38
Marlon_JD
I think you missed my point, I wasn't saying it was necessarily wrong that Rugby players get a tax break while GAA players don't (although I'm not sure that's right), I said I thought it was wrong to give anyone tax breaks for playing sport (Rugby, GAA, or anything), when there are more worthy recipients for such tax breaks, and people that need that help more. That is nice and fair but the world wont ever world in such an egalitarian way.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 29/10/2015 21:53:13    1803019

Once the GAA introduced Pay-per-view the logical, moral, correct follow on is Pay-for-play for players, once a Third-Party (Not the GAA) earns money for that third-party it has an obligation to reward the players who generate that money. I don't want Pay-per-view, the fact is the GAA is an amateur organisation with a vast infrastructure and participation levels, these have to be maintained and I have no problem with the GAA seeking to fund that through TV rights, concerts and advertising. But pay-per-view is BAD for the GAA and brings nothing to the sport - it is elitist and it excludes, but that is my opinion and it is not the debate here.

If the GAA persists in pay-per-view they have to reward the Inter-county players more. If/when they do then the real problems will arise. How is the money divided up between counties? between codes? between panel players? subs and starters? NO this is not good for the game - but that is the door the GAA has opened.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 30/10/2015 08:08:33    1803022

The government get revenue from VAT on pay-per-view. They get VAT returns when GAA supporters put petrol in their cars to go to matches,buy tickets for games, buy programmes,burgers,choc_ices, pints, Taytos etc. The GAA ,garage owners, shopkeepers all gain a bit of cash on even smaller match days. We go to games to watch the players who play for no pay.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 30/10/2015 11:03:13    1803057

30/10/2015 08:08:33 arock
Once the GAA introduced Pay-per-view the logical, moral, correct follow on is Pay-for-play for players, once a Third-Party (Not the GAA) earns money for that third-party it has an obligation to reward the players who generate that money. I don't want Pay-per-view, the fact is the GAA is an amateur organisation with a vast infrastructure and participation levels, these have to be maintained and I have no problem with the GAA seeking to fund that through TV rights, concerts and advertising. But pay-per-view is BAD for the GAA and brings nothing to the sport - it is elitist and it excludes, but that is my opinion and it is not the debate here.

If the GAA persists in pay-per-view they have to reward the Inter-county players more. If/when they do then the real problems will arise. How is the money divided up between counties? between codes? between panel players? subs and starters? NO this is not good for the game - but that is the door the GAA has opened. That isn't the logical, moral, correct follow on. Look at American collegiate sport. Strict rules on amateurism and look at money spent on tv rights etc. There is no obligation for players to be rewarded for what they do in an amateur setting without contracts to play, for something that is simply a pastime regardless of efforts put in.
Pay Per View isn't elitist though. Something that excludes people doesn't automatically mean it is elitist.
Sky isn't pay per view its subscription viewing and there is a difference. However slight.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 30/10/2015 11:18:14    1803062

Ormond, US collegiate sport is amateur only in name. If GAA players were getting some of the 'inducements' to play for teams that high school players are offered to sign up for colleges they'd be considered to be wealthy teenagers. College players are well looked after by endorsements and a small number will go on to strike it rich in NFL, NBA or MLB. Some of the college players are probably more set for life than many of our established rugby internationals who are paid a relative pittance in comparison to other sports.I don't think comparing GAA to NCAA is a fair comparison here. NCAA should be amateur, you're right, but players are getting a nice few quid and a chance to make a fortune in the pro-game. Where they are similar is the NCAA or the GAA don't pay players but both organisations have money paid for by the dedication of the players.

I don't want to GAA players to become professional either. Just a few quid of a tax break as a mark of appreciation from a government that gains from tax revenue from GAA would be a good thing.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 30/10/2015 13:00:21    1803104

Every GAA player currently gets a grant to play regardless of status.

A tax break upon retirement after 10 years on a 24 man panel would be better. Then the real elite players who dedicate their young lives to entertaining their fellow county folk.

Not every lad that gets a run for a couple of years

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 30/10/2015 14:24:47    1803142

I completely disagree with the idea, as long as the players remain amateur and are working a job like everyone else why should they get a tax break?

Let's say you work in an office at the same level as a fella who plays intercounty, you could work far harder than that player, work far longer hours yet he gets a tax break and more money in his pocket cos he plays intercounty. Why should your sporting ability in a work place that more than likely has zilch to do with that sport mean you get a tax break? I know people,in the gaa who never played for their county but have put in far more hours to the gaa than those who have, should they get a tax break?

With the cute hoorism and jobs for the boys mentality the whole system would be a disaster. I know lads who sat on county panels because of who they were, who they knew and who they were related to more than their ability. Imagine a financial incentive thrown in?

I like the general idea but not for me, lads hanging around and transferring counties just to get a tax break. Pay for play is now the elephant in the room which will soon need to be dealt with in my opinion.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1337 - 30/10/2015 15:11:19    1803162

GAA games were intended to be a hobby/pastime. Competition of course was needed to add interest and give it a bit of spice. It was never intended to be driven to a level that would equate with professional type sports. However there are so many people making a good living off the backs of GAA players that it is important for them to drive the games on to ever more professional levels. It means more people earning increasing amounts of money out of the GAA but of course it would be unthinkable that players or the volunteers that keep our clubs afloat should benefit. Media people are continually slating the entertainment value of our games as if the players were paid entertainers.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 30/10/2015 16:17:19    1803191

30/10/2015 13:00:21 GreenandRed
Ormond, US collegiate sport is amateur only in name. If GAA players were getting some of the 'inducements' to play for teams that high school players are offered to sign up for colleges they'd be considered to be wealthy teenagers. College players are well looked after by endorsements and a small number will go on to strike it rich in NFL, NBA or MLB. Some of the college players are probably more set for life than many of our established rugby internationals who are paid a relative pittance in comparison to other sports.I don't think comparing GAA to NCAA is a fair comparison here. NCAA should be amateur, you're right, but players are getting a nice few quid and a chance to make a fortune in the pro-game. Where they are similar is the NCAA or the GAA don't pay players but both organisations have money paid for by the dedication of the players.
I don't want to GAA players to become professional either. Just a few quid of a tax break as a mark of appreciation from a government that gains from tax revenue from GAA would be a good thing. GAA players get benefits in kind through their involvement at a high level.. for some players easier to find a job etc
The tax system doesn't and shouldn't work like that. The system will not be expanded so GAA players get some of their tax paid back.
30/10/2015 15:11:19 tearintom
I completely disagree with the idea, as long as the players remain amateur and are working a job like everyone else why should they get a tax break?
Let's say you work in an office at the same level as a fella who plays intercounty, you could work far harder than that player, work far longer hours yet he gets a tax break and more money in his pocket cos he plays intercounty. Why should your sporting ability in a work place that more than likely has zilch to do with that sport mean you get a tax break? I know people,in the gaa who never played for their county but have put in far more hours to the gaa than those who have, should they get a tax break?
With the cute hoorism and jobs for the boys mentality the whole system would be a disaster. I know lads who sat on county panels because of who they were, who they knew and who they were related to more than their ability. Imagine a financial incentive thrown in?completely agree on office analogy.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 30/10/2015 17:15:28    1803208