Thoughts? Westmeath had a very talented & well-prepared minor team who beat Wexford by a point & now a major review? Bit of an overreaction, maybe? Look at the Tipperary minor dual players this year. Some are saying that because they lost both finals it proves dual players at this level doesn't work. I say if you can get to 2 All-Ireland finals with dual players it proves it does work!

link

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 07/10/2015 11:53:29    1796702

I think it is a good idea to be honest.

Players will end up getting burned out and only playing one of the codes at county level would be a good start.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 07/10/2015 13:23:08    1796753

If this became a guideline at underage in counties such as my own, you could forget about us fielding county hurling teams.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 07/10/2015 16:00:53    1796841

slayer - young players get burned out by focusing on one sport too early. Its the wrong road to go down, keep as many players playing both as long as possible and enjoying the game.
Its a poor response and way over the top response.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1800 - 07/10/2015 16:13:56    1796845

I think it is the sad way intercounty is going at all levels, but on reflection its probably right.

Consider that a good dual minor is playing both codes with the club at minor and U/21 as well as probably an adult team. So 6 club teams.

Then Minor and often U/21 for County.

So a good dual player at 18 is playing with 8 different teams and maybe 10.

Not easy.

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 07/10/2015 16:31:13    1796849

That reports conclusion is not a bad way to approach this, players are choosing anyway especially with leaving Cert, it is better it is done earlier especially at county level.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 08/10/2015 10:35:11    1796994

On the current Dublin development this years u15 there is 20 dual players out of about 50 , of the 20 at least 10 would be in the top ranked players of both codes , either way one code is seriously going to miss out .
My own personal opinion is that lads should be allowed go dual up until after minor .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 08/10/2015 11:08:21    1797009

slayer - young players get burned out by focusing on one sport too early

Where is the evidence for that?

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 08/10/2015 11:25:31    1797020

read between the lines
what he is really saying is "no one over 16 who is anyway decent with a hurl should be anywhere near a stupid football" sic
this is more of the "hurling people" bullshit that wrecks peoples heads about the hurling fraternity
best game in the world, dont you know.....!

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 08/10/2015 11:51:37    1797033

Disagree entirely with this proposal. Firstly it actively discourages dual players from an early age . And How is it enforced?. Once a young fella decides to play hurling can he not change his mind ? 16 year olds are prone to changing their mind now and again !!

Secondly their rationale seem strange 'this will give other players a chance of representing their county." …Surely the reasoning is that a player would be better if they concentrated on the one code .-
Secondly I think the tipp example is futile . Tipps problem ( if reaching 2 finals with 7 or 8 dual players is actually a problem ) is that their single coded players were not good enough to make teams ahead of dual players .- that and Galway and Kerry are class hurling and football teams - I've found that dual players are by and large normally the best players in both codes , especially at minor..

Finally from a selfish GAA perpective whats to stop a young fella playing more soccer or rugby for example instead of the forced forfeited code within GAA .

Finsceal (None) - Posts: 559 - 08/10/2015 11:53:49    1797035

read between the lines
what he is really saying is "no one over 16 who is anyway decent with a hurl should be anywhere near a stupid football" sic
this is more of the "hurling people" bullshit that wrecks peoples heads about the hurling fraternity
best game in the world, dont you know.....!

Surely it is down to personal preference? If the young person wants to play football over hurling so be it. My young lad can play whatever he wants as long as he doesn't stick on a Tipperary or Liverpool shirt .......

(kidding)

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 08/10/2015 11:58:13    1797041

Ah the old chestnut from Wexford. Trust me this is as old as time itself in Wexford, every time our hurlers struggle the same thing comes out "its football lads, thats the problem im telling ye its football" only this time they actually got a committee to come up with it.

Its the old lazy analysis that comes out every time, boring, predictable and so far from identifying the actual issues its scary. Heres the thing, we have struggled at minor level at hurling yet when these lads have gone up to U21 level under JJ Doyle they have 3 Leinsters in a row, why is that Football? I dont think so.

We have had a previous chairman sending out letters to prominent dual clubs asking them to concentrate on football only as prioritisation is the way to go yet we have 2 prominent Hurling only Clubs in the county. One of these hasnt a single hurler on the senior or under 21 panel and was damn lucky not be relegated to Intermediate the other has one player at U21 level.

The problem is plain and simple, our coaching standards are not up to scratch, plain and simply nothing else and until thats adressed it will remain an issue

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1328 - 08/10/2015 11:59:34    1797044

It's exactly the same in Dublin, but in reverse, Liam. Paddy Christie, minor football manager,it is said wont accept dual players. Is that football bullsh@t so?

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1054 - 08/10/2015 12:12:23    1797052

I thinks trainers/county boards who do this are only thinking of their own benefit, not the players. All dual players, especially at that age would love the chance to represent their county at two sports they love, don't see why someone has to limit their opportunities. I'm sure the rest of our minor hurlers were delighted to have kilkenny, Lowndes, Costello, etc. On board to run Leinster and get to an AI final. Ok it was probably detrimental ti our senior hurling in the long run, but the GAA us supposed to be about a lot more than winning senior AIs

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1054 - 08/10/2015 12:19:14    1797054

Just to clarify i meant to say we have had a previous chairman sending out letters to prominent dual clubs asking them to concentrate on hurling only rather than football or both. Wrong code typed.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1328 - 08/10/2015 13:11:56    1797076

Totally agree with Liam & Tearintom. We have the same in Limerick, our hurlers were getting hockeyed and the footballers were rising and a ruling was introduced which prevented dual minors. The footballers improvement & having dual players at Senior Intercounty level was seen as the reason why our hurlers were performing so poorly.

Now young lads at 16 & 17 have to decide whether they want to play football or hurling for Limerick and any player good enough to play both will understandly tend to go for hurling more often than not, as that is seen as the best chance for success.This is very unfair and near sighted.

Wexford like Limerick probably see themselves as a "hurling county" and that football is taking from their resources, and in fairness we are both dripping with hurling All-Irelands to justify that claim... ha !

county man (Limerick) - Posts: 1102 - 08/10/2015 13:57:46    1797100

Countyman and Slayer, as Limerick men, and I half a Limerick man myself, do ye remember the time the footballers were doing better than the hurlers, do ye remember that anonymous clown "man in the middle" writing in the leader? Basically saying Limerick needed to walk away from football, as it was hindering hurling, at all levels!
And he was given a half page of the sports section to write this!!!

I found out after who man in the middle was and was very surprised and disappointed, but its just more of this rubbish.

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 08/10/2015 15:07:45    1797144

do ye remember that anonymous clown "man in the middle" writing in the leader? Basically saying Limerick needed to walk away from football, as it was hindering hurling, at all levels! And he was given a half page of the sports section to write this!!!

I remember it but it was a good time for Limerick GAA. Following the footballers between 2000 to 2010 had some great experiences. We played in Cavan, Roscommon, Mayo, Croker (2003 NFL div 2 final) and beat Cork in Cork. My favourite memory of the lot was seeing Diarmuid Sheedy, Limerick full back, taking a ball off Colin Corkery, soloing out of defence, looking for a person to pass to and when none was available he just went on up to the 40 & slotted it over.

I have heard that said about football, have said it myself in jest, but think if a anyone prefers football good on them. It's just one tough sport to play.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 08/10/2015 15:37:25    1797158

slayer, if u look up that game in cork on youtube, there i am on the terrace, me and my mate Mike, we are literally the ONLY people on the terrace that day in the ****ING rain. U cant miss us!!There was one Cork lad against the wall to the back but we are standing in the open rain on the terrace. It was a miserable day, but to be there to see Limerick, bear Cork, in Cork, in the championship, by TEN points.... It was a day I will never forget! Sheehy had corkery in his pocket all day. Some craic!!!!

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 08/10/2015 15:46:22    1797163

slayer - for professional sports specialization does come earlier but I am sure you will find that even then most will have another sport they play - I suppose you would rather they play soccer. The issues with over playing youger players has nothing to do with playing both codes but all to do with over zealous club/county and college coaches who refuse to recognize the right thing for young players to be doing. The move of Minor to U17 and preventing them from playing adult will have everyone in uproar as all they will see if the impact for their team. Anyway if you are really interested in understanding what the impact of early specialization on kids and therefore how we should approach coaching there is plenty of research out there for you. Some of this is the change in the way the GAA coaching is now being taught.

Unfortunately all that the lads in Wexford do is feed the lie even further - I am sure they will be against changing the age limits as well.

Examples below

First, here are five research excerpts that demonstrate how early specialization may negatively affect your child:
Children who specialize in a single sport account for 50% of overuse injuries in young athletes according to pediatric orthopedic specialists
A study by OhioStateUniversity found that children who specialized early in a single sport led to higher rates of adult physical inactivity. Those who commit to one sport at a young age are often the first to quit, and suffer a lifetime of consequences.
In a study of 1200 youth athletes, Dr Neeru Jayanthi of LoyolaUniversity found that early specialization in a single sport is one of the strongest predictors of injury. Athletes in the study who specialized were 70% to 93% more likely to be injured than children who played multiple sports!
Children who specialize early are at a far greater risk for burnout due to stress, decreased motivation and lack of enjoyment
Early sport specialization in female adolescents is associated with increased risk of anterior knee pain disorders including PFP, Osgood Schlatter and Sinding Larsen-Johansson compared to multi-sport athletes, and may lead to higher rates of future ACL tears (added May 2014)

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1800 - 08/10/2015 17:01:24    1797193